Re: Democratic Candidate 2020
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:52 pm
Yes, for sure - the Dems should be able to win in November with pretty much any candidate. That's why I thought this was a good opportunity to be a bit ambitious with goals - become a world-leader by taking genuinely useful measures on climate change, fix the absurd situation of millions of people with no health insurance in the richest country ever, a shift in the foreign-policy paradigm and so on.
Yes, it's interesting that Sanders' main political supporters have been women of colour like AOC and Ilhan Omar, whereas Warren and her supporters seem to genuinely dislike him as an individual despite their large areas of common ground.El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:19 pmI read a thing about how apparently Sanders doesn't play well to educated working white women (EWWW), so that'll play some part, but if those figures are right, the issue is much wider than that.
It's a big shame. Biden makes the global climate fight a lot harder, not to mention leaving US society unpleasantly f.cked and wide-open for the next Trump.El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:57 pm538 reckon Biden will win everything tonight, but that Sanders has the best chance of getting Washington and DA.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ou ... primaries/
For this reason, both Sanders and Biden have plans that involve making a lot of executive ordersEl Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:06 pmIt's a weirdness though, a lot of the reason why Obama couldn't get anything done was because congress was either controlled by or able to be held up by the Republicans for much of his tenure. He tried workarounds but had to work with what he had. The dilemma is that Biden might have a chance of helping the Dems gets control of congress, but wouldn't do as much with it if he could. Sanders would have next to no chance and the Republicans would obstruct everything again.
Where is the evidence that 'harassment from Bernie Bros' is actually a thing? I mean, above the background unpleasant level of online discourse? The whole 'Bernie Bros' narrative that Sanders was supported mainly by young white dudes turned out to be rubbish, for a start. Also, what mad conspiracy theories has Sanders been pushing?lpm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:48 pmThe harassment from Bernie-Bros can't be dismissed as a factor. EWWW who support Warren online have been subjected to male-style hatred and abuse - and can't bear the thought of switching to Sanders as a result.
Some of that abuse came from Russian bots, but Sander's kept casually dismissing it, while adding mad conspiracy theories and "fake news" rants of his own. Quite simply, Sanders is too Trumpy for many women.
This isn't evidence that Sanders supporters are more offensive than anyone else though, just that Sanders feels compelled to apologize for his ruder supporters more, for what could be any number of reasons. I've seen plenty of online rudeness directed towards Sanders and his fans by supporters of other Democratic candidates. In this very thread, for example, lpm described Sanders as an 'awful man', and said his supporters are 'even worse'. Not in the middle of a heated argument, but as a conversation starter.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:54 pmSanders has recent stated that he’s disgusted by the ugly personal attacks directed by his supporters against Warren:
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4 ... nst-warren
I see it constantly. Asking for evidence of clearly visible harassment from Sanders supporters is a really bad look for someone who supports Sanders.secret squirrel wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:42 pmWhere is the evidence that 'harassment from Bernie Bros' is actually a thing? I mean, above the background unpleasant level of online discourse? The whole 'Bernie Bros' narrative that Sanders was supported mainly by young white dudes turned out to be rubbish, for a start. Also, what mad conspiracy theories has Sanders been pushing?lpm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:48 pmThe harassment from Bernie-Bros can't be dismissed as a factor. EWWW who support Warren online have been subjected to male-style hatred and abuse - and can't bear the thought of switching to Sanders as a result.
Some of that abuse came from Russian bots, but Sander's kept casually dismissing it, while adding mad conspiracy theories and "fake news" rants of his own. Quite simply, Sanders is too Trumpy for many women.
Biden is a documented sex pest and a creep. His behavior towards Anita Hill was disgraceful. Anyone who criticizes Sanders for anything related to sexism but gives Biden a pass is either an idiot, or was just using 'sexism' as a rationalization for something else all along, like wanting to defend their relatively comfortable position in society.
I think it's been quite acrimonious all round. I did see a lot of people posting snake emojis to refer to Warren at one point, for instance. I've also seen more attacks on Sanders than on Warren - and coming from people higher up than anonymous internet randoms - but as everybody inhabits an algorithm-derived online bubble it's impossible to be confident about relative frequencies.dyqik wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:05 pmI see it constantly. Asking for evidence of clearly visible harassment from Sanders supporters is a really bad look for someone who supports Sanders.secret squirrel wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:42 pmWhere is the evidence that 'harassment from Bernie Bros' is actually a thing? I mean, above the background unpleasant level of online discourse? The whole 'Bernie Bros' narrative that Sanders was supported mainly by young white dudes turned out to be rubbish, for a start. Also, what mad conspiracy theories has Sanders been pushing?lpm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:48 pmThe harassment from Bernie-Bros can't be dismissed as a factor. EWWW who support Warren online have been subjected to male-style hatred and abuse - and can't bear the thought of switching to Sanders as a result.
Some of that abuse came from Russian bots, but Sander's kept casually dismissing it, while adding mad conspiracy theories and "fake news" rants of his own. Quite simply, Sanders is too Trumpy for many women.
Biden is a documented sex pest and a creep. His behavior towards Anita Hill was disgraceful. Anyone who criticizes Sanders for anything related to sexism but gives Biden a pass is either an idiot, or was just using 'sexism' as a rationalization for something else all along, like wanting to defend their relatively comfortable position in society.
I haven't seen any significant abuse from Warren, Biden and others' supporters.secret squirrel wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:09 pmI'm saying 'above the background level', which is high across the board.
Somebody put this collection together on reddit, of comments from as single anti-Sanders forum. https://www.reddit.com/r/enoughsanderss ... oments_of/dyqik wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:18 pmI haven't seen any significant abuse from Warren, Biden and others' supporters.secret squirrel wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:09 pmI'm saying 'above the background level', which is high across the board.
A dedicated forum is very much not what we are talking about. I'm talking about general twitter threads. etc.Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:31 pmSomebody put this collection together on reddit, of comments from as single anti-Sanders forum. https://www.reddit.com/r/enoughsanderss ... oments_of/dyqik wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:18 pmI haven't seen any significant abuse from Warren, Biden and others' supporters.secret squirrel wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:09 pm
I'm saying 'above the background level', which is high across the board.
So it probably depends where you look. If you know a lot of Warren supporters you'll see them getting abused. If you know a lot of Sanders supporters, likewise.