Laptop motherboard replacement: worth it? Plus: desktops vs laptops

[Bird on a Fire]

My main laptop has died (won't power on or anything). My options are to replace the motherboard or just chuck it and buy a new one.

As I work analysing large datasets and doing a lot of Bayesian stuff (parallelized Markov-chains) I need a f.ckload of RAM and fast, multi-core processing. I don't game or stream much.

It's an HP Elitebook which is a chunky f.cker, dating originally from 2012 but bought refurbished 18 months ago.

For various reasons, from cost to sustainability to supporting local business, my gut is to get the part replaced. I can't afford a brand-new laptop of anything like the same quality, and am wary of getting another refurbished one if it might conk out again 18 months down the line when I'm writing my PhD thesis. Also, those monopolising c.nts at Microsoft have made it basically impossible to access the UEFI settings without first installing Windows, so I can't get Linux on it without wasting money on their software which I don't want.

I'm currently writing this on a cheapo netbook from the same year, which so far has only needed a new hard drive (right in the middle of my masters thesis, which was good fun). But swapping out a hard drive is a lot simpler than a motherboard, especially in these Elitebooks.

Labour in Portugal isn't too expensive, so it would probably be the price of the part plus €100 or so.

Anyone got any experience with replaced motherboards, or anything else useful or interesting to add? TIA.

[Woodchopper]

Based upon limited personal experience ...

Laptops are really fiddly. I've seen professionals break them by accident while trying to fix them. So if you get someone to install a new motherboard, be careful who you ask to do it.

[Bird on a Fire]

Forgot a secondary question - are desktops still significantly cheaper than laptops for similar specs? I rarely take the chunker out the house anyway, and I could always leave it on and access remotely by internet for big jobs when I'm away (though I also have the university's cluster to do that).

[Bird on a Fire]

Based upon limited personal experience ...

Laptops are really fiddly. I've seen professionals break them by accident while trying to fix them. So if you get someone to install a new motherboard, be careful who you ask to do it.

Thanks.

The bloke I spoke to round here has a similar model for himself, and another for his colleague. He did seem iffy about whether it would be worth it or not, though. I'd proceed with caution.

[cvb]

Forgot a secondary question - are desktops still significantly cheaper than laptops for similar specs? I rarely take the chunker out the house anyway, and I could always leave it on and access remotely by internet for big jobs when I'm away (though I also have the university's cluster to do that).

Desktops are still considerably cheaper for the similar specs and also more reliable in general and easier to fix/upgrade. For doing any kind of serious processing a desktop is always the better choice. If you don't take the laptop about with you a desktop is the way to go.

[Woodchopper]

Forgot a secondary question - are desktops still significantly cheaper than laptops for similar specs? I rarely take the chunker out the house anyway, and I could always leave it on and access remotely by internet for big jobs when I'm away (though I also have the university's cluster to do that).

Desktops are still considerably cheaper for the similar specs and also more reliable in general and easier to fix/upgrade. For doing any kind of serious processing a desktop is always the better choice. If you don't take the laptop about with you a desktop is the way to go.

I agree. A desktop is a collection of components which are produced as cheaply as possible. I've put together a few over the years. A laptop is a much more complex piece of engineering.

[Bird on a Fire]

Coolio - thanks both.

I might ask the bloke to whip up a couple of quotes, one for the repair and one for a new desktop build, and see what I think.

[secret squirrel]

This is a long shot, but a few years ago I had a similar problem, and it turned out to be the battery. When the battery was installed, the computer wouldn't power up, even while plugged in, but for some reason if I took the battery out and plugged it in, it would. Probably not what your problem is, but it's easy to test, just in case.

[Martin Y]

This is a long shot, but a few years ago I had a similar problem, and it turned out to be the battery. When the battery was installed, the computer wouldn't power up, even while plugged in, but for some reason if I took the battery out and plugged it in, it would. Probably not what your problem is, but it's easy to test, just in case.

As it 'appens I have a similar but older model ('07 or '08) and that happened to mine last year - wouldn't do a thing until the dud battery was removed.

[Bird on a Fire]

This is a long shot, but a few years ago I had a similar problem, and it turned out to be the battery. When the battery was installed, the computer wouldn't power up, even while plugged in, but for some reason if I took the battery out and plugged it in, it would. Probably not what your problem is, but it's easy to test, just in case.

As it 'appens I have a similar but older model ('07 or '08) and that happened to mine last year - wouldn't do a thing until the dud battery was removed.

The battery died, to the point where the computer wouldn't boot with the battery in at all, so I bought a new one off the internet (unofficial, as HP don't make them any more), and it still won't boot. Nor will it boot with the battery removed.

This is what made me worry about the motherboard, and after I described it to the bloke in the shop he said "it's probably dead" then disappeared into the back workshop and poked around inside and said "seems to be the motherboard, it's definitely not these bits*, but I can't confirm for sure without dismantling the whole caboodle which will take hours and cost quite a lot of money, it's probably not worth the hassle".

*molas, which normally translates as springs but can be clamps, stands, etc - haven't the foggiest what they are I'm afraid

[Gfamily]

Are MBs available for models that old.

[Bird on a Fire]

Are MBs available for models that old.

Seemingly - though it's only going to get older and future repairability is obviously also a concern. Desktops would be safer on that front too I suspect.

I've got quotes for a new desktop exceeding my laptop's specs for ~€510 (plus I'd need a monitor). I suspect as long as the bloke can find the part for under €300 I'd save money doing the repair - but OTOH there's no guarantee it would work.

I do need a decent, reliable workstation, but on the other hand I'm as broke as a motherf.cking joke (just today I left my front door to find a bloke from the water board about to cut us off). Buying a new machine is either the sensible long-term option or profligate degeneracy because I'm feeling sorry for myself and want some shiny new tech.

I'm vacillating because I'm not sure which - so thanks for the input.

[Gfamily]

You might find a same model laptop with a broken screen on eBay and find it easier to swap the screen and hdd over.

But I'd be inclined to go with a desktop, you can use a remote desktop connection to get access from elsewhere.

[Pucksoppet]

For UEFI problems and Linux, you might get somewhere using rEFInd.

I used it to get a Microsoftized Acer laptop running linux. Not only has the firmware been set up (breaking UEFI standards) to use only the Microsoft booting directory structure and filenames on the ESP, but the firmware requires a 32-bit UEFI to boot a 64-bit OS, which was a 'challenging' combination.

rEFInd deals with that. Essentially, you put a renamed rEFInd executable where the Microsoft boot executable would be on the EFI system Partition, the laptop 'blindly' executes it, and rEFInd presents you with a boot manager that will boot anything.

You do need to turn off secure boot, I think, although there may be signed executables floating around. Turning off Secure Boot can be a bit counter-intuitive on some firmware: you need to set a firmware password, and when you do that, the option to turn off secure boot 'magically' appears. Microsoft have used every trick in the book to try and persuade people to use only their O/S and to junk perfectly serviceable notebook PCs that have insufficient storage to run the latest Windows 10 offerings.

If you are IT literate, it is worth a look.

[Bird on a Fire]

You might find a same model laptop with a broken screen on eBay and find it easier to swap the screen and hdd over.

But I'd be inclined to go with a desktop, you can use a remote desktop connection to get access from elsewhere.

Thanks. I'm leaning towards a desktop too.

[Bird on a Fire]

For UEFI problems and Linux, you might get somewhere using rEFInd.

I used it to get a Microsoftized Acer laptop running linux. Not only has the firmware been set up (breaking UEFI standards) to use only the Microsoft booting directory structure and filenames on the ESP, but the firmware requires a 32-bit UEFI to boot a 64-bit OS, which was a 'challenging' combination.

rEFInd deals with that. Essentially, you put a renamed rEFInd executable where the Microsoft boot executable would be on the EFI system Partition, the laptop 'blindly' executes it, and rEFInd presents you with a boot manager that will boot anything.

You do need to turn off secure boot, I think, although there may be signed executables floating around. Turning off Secure Boot can be a bit counter-intuitive on some firmware: you need to set a firmware password, and when you do that, the option to turn off secure boot 'magically' appears. Microsoft have used every trick in the book to try and persuade people to use only their O/S and to junk perfectly serviceable notebook PCs that have insufficient storage to run the latest Windows 10 offerings.

If you are IT literate, it is worth a look.

This look potentially very handy, thanks!

I'm really very surprised that Microsoft's vendor standards for UEFI implementation haven't fallen foul of some competition regulations so far, but that's a story for another thread.

[ControlFreak]

If your laptop isn't repairable one way of getting quite lot of computer grunt for your money is to by a xeon workstation from one the ebay resellers. I think they must buy just out warranty workstations from companies that ditch them after 3 years.

When I got one a couple of years ago it was about a third of the cost of a new basic i7 but was a much better spec. They can be a bit noisy though !

[TopBadger]

AMD's 64 Core threadripper launches in a few weeks - $4k though - so not for those on a budget!

Alternatively - if PAYG is a more affordable option then you could sign up for Azure/AWS and run calculations there on beefy machines. But you'll need a working machine to RDP in.

Didn't think they were allowed to cut off water supply... Bastards.

[veravista]

Veravistina's 4 year old Dell started to self destruct, only half charging, then Bitlocker problems and all sorts of stuff. Uni diagnosed a component on the motherboard was failing and that a whole new board would (probably) fix it - cheapest they could find was £300. She went and bought a new HP Surface pro for under £1000 - which considering that she uses it intensively was justifiable.

Personally I hate laptops as I don't need to do anything on the move that a tablet or phone can't handle, and I love the expandability of my desktop. I'd really like one of these that my PC Mr fix it has...

20191219_090558.jpg (80.77 KiB) Viewed 3763 times

[Bird on a Fire]

Thanks again to everyone for the input.

I have ordered a new desktop for €550 including delivery, which beats my old laptop on specs and comes with a lifetime component guarantee. Should be arriving Friday

I'm also getting access to my department's cluster for the really big data stuff and production runs of analyses.

Hopefully this ancient netbook will keep going a few more years, but I can replace it with the cheapest thing on the market when the time comes. Chromebooks are no good for me as I'm often very far from connectivity, and I can't run R on Android (at least not without connecting to a server instance).

[dyqik]

Thanks again to everyone for the input.

I have ordered a new desktop for €550 including delivery, which beats my old laptop on specs and comes with a lifetime component guarantee. Should be arriving Friday

I'm also getting access to my department's cluster for the really big data stuff and production runs of analyses.

Hopefully this ancient netbook will keep going a few more years, but I can replace it with the cheapest thing on the market when the time comes. Chromebooks are no good for me as I'm often very far from connectivity, and I can't run R on Android (at least not without connecting to a server instance).

There are probably ways of doing that locally on Android, I suspect. GNURoot and then installing the R Debian package (after doing a few things) seems to work.

[nekomatic]

Install R server instance on Raspberry Pi Zero configured to present a network interface over USB. Plug* Raspberry Pi Zero in to Chromebook. Job’s a good**’un.

* I dunno if Chromebooks have plugholes?
** For a certain probably not very satisfactory value of good

[Bird on a Fire]

Install R server instance on Raspberry Pi Zero configured to present a network interface over USB. Plug* Raspberry Pi Zero in to Chromebook. Job’s a good**’un.

* I dunno if Chromebooks have plugholes?
** For a certain probably not very satisfactory value of good

A lot of the time I'm using my travel notebook I'm thoroughly offline, so cloud-based or other online solutions are out.

[Bird on a Fire]

My new desktop arrived ahead of schedule today. I saved alsmost £100 by getting it without an operating system, and it's now purring away with Xubuntu, downloading all my stuff from Dropbox. By tomorrow the whole incident will be behind me, bank balance aside.

I'm going to put it through its paces with some exciting Bayesian stuff too.

[bmforre]

My new desktop arrived ahead of schedule today. I saved alsmost £100 by getting it without an operating system, and it's now purring away with Xubuntu, downloading all my stuff from Dropbox. By tomorrow the whole incident will be behind me, bank balance aside.

I'm going to put it through its paces with some exciting Bayesian stuff too.

Congratulations!

How does the performance of your new PC compare to a Cray I ?