Why does it need to be a gel? Just rub 97% iso-propanol on your hands.bob sterman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:48 pmNeed to find a way to turn readily available alcohol (vodka, gin, brandy etc) into a gel like substance to rub on your hands!
Any ideas???
COVID-19
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
I read (somewhere) that gels are better because the water in the gel helps the alcohol get through the virus capsule.dyqik wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:42 pmWhy does it need to be a gel? Just rub 97% iso-propanol on your hands.bob sterman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:48 pmNeed to find a way to turn readily available alcohol (vodka, gin, brandy etc) into a gel like substance to rub on your hands!
Any ideas???
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Serious question for those medically knowledgeable.
Is there any way to disinfect used face masks? This is something that has been going around the internet and I fear much of it is wrong.
Is there any way to disinfect used face masks? This is something that has been going around the internet and I fear much of it is wrong.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Milton's claims it works against the flu virus, so if you trust them, that would do it.Herainestold wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:22 pmSerious question for those medically knowledgeable*.
Is there any way to disinfect used face masks? This is something that has been going around the internet and I fear much of it is wrong.
*not medically knowledgeable, but I'm not sure the medically knowledgeable would know either.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
So the Chinese government recommends face masks, although others only recommend them for health care workers, not the general public.Gfamily wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:32 pmMilton's claims it works against the flu virus, so if you trust them, that would do it.Herainestold wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:22 pmSerious question for those medically knowledgeable*.
Is there any way to disinfect used face masks? This is something that has been going around the internet and I fear much of it is wrong.
*not medically knowledgeable, but I'm not sure the medically knowledgeable would know either.
The masks are hard to get, most places are sold out and there is a black market in the masks.
Some people are recommending certain ways to disinfect used masks, others are saying it cannot be done.
I have a few masks on hand, but not enopugh to last through a sev re pandemic. I am wondering if they can be sanitized and re-used or if I should try and get more online, at inflated costs.
Thanks.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
WHO recommendations are here
https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease ... -use-masks
There's a reason why face masks are recommended to be single use, and that's because with some home-based sterilisation , you've no idea how much funky pathogenic stuff you've left behind, and nor do you know if you've damaged the quality of the material and thus its capacity to stop any viruses nipping through the holes and into your mouth and nose.
And you may well not be fitting them on properly, you'll prob touch them with your hands anyway because they're uncomfortable, the moisture from your breath means they become a nice breeding ground for your and others pathogens, you'll either wear them for too long because you want to make them last, or you'll find them so uncomfortable you'll rip them off pretty quickly.
Cloth masks are fairly common in the poorer parts of the world, they're often reused simply because they don't have the stocks for single-use. Reasonable body of evidence that these aren't good for infection control, for example see here.
If you're hanging around the backstreets of Chipping Norton, unsure why you'd be stocking up on masks. If you're living in number 4, Wuhan Mansions, then I can understand that a little more.
https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease ... -use-masks
There's a reason why face masks are recommended to be single use, and that's because with some home-based sterilisation , you've no idea how much funky pathogenic stuff you've left behind, and nor do you know if you've damaged the quality of the material and thus its capacity to stop any viruses nipping through the holes and into your mouth and nose.
And you may well not be fitting them on properly, you'll prob touch them with your hands anyway because they're uncomfortable, the moisture from your breath means they become a nice breeding ground for your and others pathogens, you'll either wear them for too long because you want to make them last, or you'll find them so uncomfortable you'll rip them off pretty quickly.
Cloth masks are fairly common in the poorer parts of the world, they're often reused simply because they don't have the stocks for single-use. Reasonable body of evidence that these aren't good for infection control, for example see here.
If you're hanging around the backstreets of Chipping Norton, unsure why you'd be stocking up on masks. If you're living in number 4, Wuhan Mansions, then I can understand that a little more.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
People in Chipping Norton and Workington will be stocking up on masks now for some pretty understandable reasons. It might be undesirable from a national planning perspective but it's understandable (e.g. if people anticipate having to care for sick relatives or spend time with healthy relatives while sick themselves).
It looks pretty clear that we're in a pandemic situation and by the time there is significant spread of the virus here, there will be mask shortages and supply chain issues (not least because so many are normally manufactured in China).
Major online retailers and DIY stores have already sold out of many types of surgical and dust mask. It's self-fulfilling (impending shortage creates shortage) but understandable.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
MERS, SARS and Wuhan are all zoonotic corona viruses. Throw in Ebola, HIV, a whole range of influenzas and the rest of the animal kingdom is having their revenge on us. How are we going to change our animal husbandry methods to minimise the chance of this happening again and are we going to stop high risk wild animals being caught and sold as food? Easy enough in the West, it should be easy enough now in China but still a challenge in the less developed parts of the world.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
5 cases (Brits, as it goes) in a ski resort in France, seemingly transmitted via one particularly infectious case, where many other citizens of many other European countries (and beyond) will be gathered.
Something like this can be the trigger for European spread, let's hope it's not the case here.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51425702
Something like this can be the trigger for European spread, let's hope it's not the case here.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51425702
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
For sure, agreed, people will do that anyway.bob sterman wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:48 amPeople in Chipping Norton and Workington will be stocking up on masks now for some pretty understandable reasons. It might be undesirable from a national planning perspective but it's understandable (e.g. if people anticipate having to care for sick relatives or spend time with healthy relatives while sick themselves).
It looks pretty clear that we're in a pandemic situation and by the time there is significant spread of the virus here, there will be mask shortages and supply chain issues (not least because so many are normally manufactured in China).
Major online retailers and DIY stores have already sold out of many types of surgical and dust mask. It's self-fulfilling (impending shortage creates shortage) but understandable.
From my point of view, as I'm commenting on this elsewhere as well, on here I'm also going with a public health hat on. And people won't use masks well, they will use them in inappropriate circumstances, and for now certainly shouldn't be stockpiling, in part because that could mean potential supply issues for healthcare workers on the front line (plenty of whom are infected in China so far, including for example the doc who died).
On the pandemic note, pedantry requires me to point out we are not in a pandemic situation at the moment. May become one, but isn't yet (will require sustained human to human transmission across multiple countries for WHO to declare a pandemic).
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Discussions have to be had on this point. Hard to change long-established cultures even in times of emergencies (for example ebola in west africa and how they handle the bodies of those who have died, the international response got that very wrong and built distrust with local communities). It's why I do champion the views of social scientists and anthropologists in terms of how we communicate those messages.bjn wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:12 amMERS, SARS and Wuhan are all zoonotic corona viruses. Throw in Ebola, HIV, a whole range of influenzas and the rest of the animal kingdom is having their revenge on us. How are we going to change our animal husbandry methods to minimise the chance of this happening again and are we going to stop high risk wild animals being caught and sold as food? Easy enough in the West, it should be easy enough now in China but still a challenge in the less developed parts of the world.
Not convinced it will be an easy conversation to be had in China. We'll see what the Chinese response is when this is said and done, whenever that be. But at the very least, consider taking bats off the menus (simply because they harbour so many random viruses, reduce their contact with civet cats and whatever else in food markets to reduce the chances of another animal ending up an intermediary between bats and human, that will help a bit).
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Does Nominative Determinism apply to placenames?mikeh wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:10 am5 cases (Brits, as it goes) in a ski resort in France, seemingly transmitted via one particularly infectious case, where many other citizens of many other European countries (and beyond) will be gathered.
Something like this can be the trigger for European spread, let's hope it's not the case here.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51425702
grauniad wrote: The mayor of Contamines-Montjoie, Etienne Jacquet, said the 11 Britons in hospital in France had stayed at two separate chalets in the ski resort. The local health authority is disinfecting the two buildings and is searching for anyone who might have come in contact with the group.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
I can imagine the Chinese leadership reflecting on the costs of having wild animal markets vs their benefits and going all totalitarian bastard about it. Not necessarily the right way to do it, but it would drive them completely underground and reduce their impacts somewhat.mikeh wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:18 amDiscussions have to be had on this point. Hard to change long-established cultures even in times of emergencies (for example ebola in west africa and how they handle the bodies of those who have died, the international response got that very wrong and built distrust with local communities). It's why I do champion the views of social scientists and anthropologists in terms of how we communicate those messages.bjn wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:12 amMERS, SARS and Wuhan are all zoonotic corona viruses. Throw in Ebola, HIV, a whole range of influenzas and the rest of the animal kingdom is having their revenge on us. How are we going to change our animal husbandry methods to minimise the chance of this happening again and are we going to stop high risk wild animals being caught and sold as food? Easy enough in the West, it should be easy enough now in China but still a challenge in the less developed parts of the world.
Not convinced it will be an easy conversation to be had in China. We'll see what the Chinese response is when this is said and done, whenever that be. But at the very least, consider taking bats off the menus (simply because they harbour so many random viruses, reduce their contact with civet cats and whatever else in food markets to reduce the chances of another animal ending up an intermediary between bats and human, that will help a bit).
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Exactly. Not panicking -yet- just thinking about coming days. China advises people outside in public to wear masks but WHO does not.bob sterman wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:48 amPeople in Chipping Norton and Workington will be stocking up on masks now for some pretty understandable reasons. It might be undesirable from a national planning perspective but it's understandable (e.g. if people anticipate having to care for sick relatives or spend time with healthy relatives while sick themselves).
It looks pretty clear that we're in a pandemic situation and by the time there is significant spread of the virus here, there will be mask shortages and supply chain issues (not least because so many are normally manufactured in China).
Major online retailers and DIY stores have already sold out of many types of surgical and dust mask. It's self-fulfilling (impending shortage creates shortage) but understandable.
Its early days, nobody knows what will happen. Keep Calm. Carry On. Prepare for the worst.
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
WHO is worried about availability of masks for health care professionals.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/07/cor ... shortages/The concern is less about paper surgical masks, the thin, pleated type seen in TV hospital dramas. It relates instead to hard, domed masks known as N-95 respirators, which are the types needed to protect against the spread of a respiratory pathogen in a hospital setting.
“We need to start looking at what is the minimum amount of supply that needs to be protected and directed to those institutions and systems that require it for the next number of months,” Ryan said. “If we start to see the normal civilian market being flooded with N-95 and other respirator-type masks and we see doctors and nurses in hospitals not having those, then there is a problem.”
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
From the NYT:The fatality rate in Wuhan is 4.1 percent and 2.8 percent in Hubei, compared to 0.17 percent elsewhere in mainland China.
“This is almost a humanitarian disaster” for the central Chinese region, said Willy Lam, an adjunct professor at the Center for China Studies at the Chinese University of Hong Kong, who cited insufficient supplies of medical equipment, food and other necessities. “The Wuhan people seem to be left high and dry by themselves.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/worl ... ticleShare
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
It is very sad.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:08 pmFrom the NYT:The fatality rate in Wuhan is 4.1 percent and 2.8 percent in Hubei, compared to 0.17 percent elsewhere in mainland China.
“This is almost a humanitarian disaster” for the central Chinese region, said Willy Lam, an adjunct professor at the Center for China Studies at the Chinese University of Hong Kong, who cited insufficient supplies of medical equipment, food and other necessities. “The Wuhan people seem to be left high and dry by themselves.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/worl ... ticleShare
China and especially Hubei and Wuhan is taking the brunt of this catastrophe and the rest of the world is remarkably un sympathetic, talking about eating bats, and quarantine and censorship and the CCP, like they deserved it, when people are dying. It 's been a stimulus for latent anti Chinese racism in the west
Can you imagine what this would look like if it had emerged in the US, where poor people have no health coverage and public health measures favour the rich and well connected and transportation links are so ubiquitous that the virus would spread instantly to the four corneres of the world?
Masking forever
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
Putin is a monster.
Russian socialism will rise again
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Not been able to find such information, so perhaps the hive mind could help: what is the death rate and infectiousness of this Coronavirus like compared to the flu that goes round every year?
CF
CF
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
If the data here is accurate...Cardinal Fang wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:46 pmNot been able to find such information, so perhaps the hive mind could help: what is the death rate and infectiousness of this Coronavirus like compared to the flu that goes round every year?
CF
https://www.livescience.com/new-coronav ... h-flu.html
... the death rate from nCV is about 40x higher than from flu.
also, the 'R0' value for nCV is about 70% higher than for the flu (albeit that there are significant differences between populations of 'global' flu spreaders and 'current' nCV spreaders)
So, the current stats suggest that people with it will spread it more easily than flu, and far more people will die if they get it.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
I'm not a public health specialist, so I can be more strident than MikeH.Herainestold wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:41 pmExactly. Not panicking -yet- just thinking about coming days. China advises people outside in public to wear masks but WHO does not.bob sterman wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:48 amPeople in Chipping Norton and Workington will be stocking up on masks now for some pretty understandable reasons. It might be undesirable from a national planning perspective but it's understandable (e.g. if people anticipate having to care for sick relatives or spend time with healthy relatives while sick themselves).
It looks pretty clear that we're in a pandemic situation and by the time there is significant spread of the virus here, there will be mask shortages and supply chain issues (not least because so many are normally manufactured in China).
Major online retailers and DIY stores have already sold out of many types of surgical and dust mask. It's self-fulfilling (impending shortage creates shortage) but understandable.
Its early days, nobody knows what will happen. Keep Calm. Carry On. Prepare for the worst.
DON'T STOCKPILE MASKS.
Even if coronavirus comes to Chipping Norton, masks are not going be much use because they're likely either the wrong type, or used in the wrong way. "Courtesy mask" use has become a cultural behaviour in much of Asia. That doesn't mean they are effective in reducing infection, but it does explain why China is recommending it.
There are already mask shortages, so don't be part of the reason why there are shortages.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Bear in mind that both the R0 (rate it spreads through a vulnerable population) and the case fatality rate numbers you are seeing right now are likely wrong, because the data are incomplete.Gfamily wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:17 pmIf the data here is accurate...Cardinal Fang wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:46 pmNot been able to find such information, so perhaps the hive mind could help: what is the death rate and infectiousness of this Coronavirus like compared to the flu that goes round every year?
CF
https://www.livescience.com/new-coronav ... h-flu.html
... the death rate from nCV is about 40x higher than from flu.
also, the 'R0' value for nCV is about 70% higher than for the flu (albeit that there are significant differences between populations of 'global' flu spreaders and 'current' nCV spreaders)
So, the current stats suggest that people with it will spread it more easily than flu, and far more people will die if they get it.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
No.AMS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:40 pmDoes Nominative Determinism apply to placenames?mikeh wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:10 am5 cases (Brits, as it goes) in a ski resort in France, seemingly transmitted via one particularly infectious case, where many other citizens of many other European countries (and beyond) will be gathered.
Something like this can be the trigger for European spread, let's hope it's not the case here.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51425702
grauniad wrote: The mayor of Contamines-Montjoie, Etienne Jacquet, said the 11 Britons in hospital in France had stayed at two separate chalets in the ski resort. The local health authority is disinfecting the two buildings and is searching for anyone who might have come in contact with the group.
"Contamines" does not mean "contaminated", it means “ploughable land on the squire’s estate”.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -nationals
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/af ... story.htmlNo cases have been confirmed so far in any of Africa’s 54 countries, but the risk of an outbreak is high, World Health Organization leaders say. Africa is home to 1.2 billion people, including an estimated 1 million Chinese nationals, who tend to work in business, construction, oil and mining — a testament to Beijing’s increasingly tight relationship with Senegal, Nigeria, Ethiopia and beyond.
Flights from the Asian power bring at least 1,000 travelers to the continent each day. But as of this week, only six labs could test for the coronavirus. (In the United States, all cases were tested at the headquarters of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta until Wednesday, when test kits were sent to more than 100 state labs.)
“Our greatest concern is about the potential for spread in countries with weaker health systems,” which lack the capacity to detect the virus, WHO Director General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said Wednesday.
To address that concern, medical teams from 15 African nations are convening in Dakar on Thursday for an emergency workshop on the first layer of readiness: diagnosing the new virus. WHO officials said 24 countries, encompassing most of Africa’s population, will receive the material needed to conduct the tests by the end of the week.
“We can do a test in four hours,” said Amadou Alpha Sall, general administrator of the Institut Pasteur in Dakar, the region’s top biomedical research facility, “and our goal is to spread that capability.”
The lab was one of only two on the continent that had testing capabilities before Nigeria, Ghana, Madagascar and Sierra Leone received the supplies this week, the WHO said. (The other one was in South Africa.)
[...]
Mozambique stopped issuing visas for Chinese nationals. South Africa’s postal service no longer accepts packages from China. Six African airlines halted flights they have deemed hazardous, but Ethiopian Airlines has maintained 17 weekly flights to four Chinese cities, not including Wuhan.
In a global ranking last October of 195 countries on their level of preparedness for a “biological threat” by experts at Johns Hopkins University, African nations ranked toward the bottom of the list — with Equatorial Guinea placing last.
“I still think there are places that are flat-out bald in parts of Africa where the coronavirus could just race through,” said J. Stephen Morrison, director of the Global Health Policy Center at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington think tank.
Sall, head of the Institut Pasteur in Dakar, disputed such characterizations.
“It’s not right to say Africa is the most vulnerable and least prepared,” he said. “That’s based on how they see Africa and not on what’s actually happening.”
Police stopped two Chinese businessmen at Senegal’s border with Gambia last week. No thermal cameras greeted the visitors, who had arrived days earlier from Beijing. No one quarantined them. And no one panicked.
“Police took their addresses and phone numbers,” said El Hadji Mamadou Ndiaye, head of prevention at Senegal’s Ministry of Health. “We’re checking in with them every day for 14 days, and if any sign of the virus arrives, we’re ready for it.”
Thirty-eight others who have entered the West African country from China since Jan. 28 have received the same treatment of daily phone calls and doctor visits.
“We can’t afford quarantine,” Ndiaye said. “So we track their whereabouts. If they show even the slightest sign, we come and pick them up.”
A college student who returned to Dakar from China last week with a fever and a cough was tested and cleared, he said, in one afternoon.
Hanging over the response to the coronavirus is the memory of the Ebola epidemic that killed roughly 11,000 people in West Africa from 2014 to 2016.
Doctors know to report cases sooner, Sall said, and quickly share information across borders. Authorities are in regular contact with the WHO, the Africa CDC and Chinese worker associations.
Governments have launched campaigns to educate people about coronavirus symptoms and what to do if they manifest, but authorities have kept a tighter lid on medical data.
Senegalese health officials declined to say how many samples the Institut Pasteur has tested and from which countries.
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Cities across sub-Saharan Africa — thought to be the fastest-growing region on Earth — are densely crowded, which elevates the risk for respiratory contagion, experts say.
Multiple outbreaks are ongoing in other parts of Africa, including simultaneous Ebola and measles outbreaks in eastern Congo. If the coronavirus were to arrive in Africa, some resources probably would have to be diverted away from the response in Congo, complicating already fraught efforts there.
Congo’s Health Ministry is generally regarded as competent at containing outbreaks, but health workers have been repeatedly targeted by Congo’s numerous militias, as well as locals suspicious of the motives behind the WHO’s large-scale intervention.
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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
However, it's also the World Health Organisation who are recommending their use by the public in areas that have reported outbreaks caused by the 2019 novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV)...nefibach wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:38 amI'm not a public health specialist, so I can be more strident than MikeH.
DON'T STOCKPILE MASKS.
Even if coronavirus comes to Chipping Norton, masks are not going be much use because they're likely either the wrong type, or used in the wrong way. "Courtesy mask" use has become a cultural behaviour in much of Asia. That doesn't mean they are effective in reducing infection, but it does explain why China is recommending it.
https://www.who.int/docs/default-source ... 9-ncov.pdf
For example, in the following circumstances...
Individuals with respiratory symptoms should:
- wear a medical mask and seek medical care if experiencing fever, cough and difficulty breathing, as soon as possible or in accordance with to local protocols;
Relatives or caregivers to individuals with suspected 2019-nCoV infection with mild respiratory symptoms should:
- wear a medical mask when in the same room with the affected individual;
Now presumably - people in the second situation should be issued with masks by the local health service providers (if there aren't shortages) but the people in the first situation won't be, because they may be going to seek medical care for the first time.
So if someone in Chipping Norton is expecting community transmission to become established in the UK, and wants to be ready to follow the WHO guidance and wear a mask when seeking medical care for the first time for respiratory symptoms - then obviously they would decide they should buy some now.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Criticism of the PRC regime =/= anti-Chinese racism.Herainestold wrote: ↑Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:21 pm.
China and especially Hubei and Wuhan is taking the brunt of this catastrophe and the rest of the world is remarkably un sympathetic, talking about eating bats, and quarantine and censorship and the CCP, like they deserved it, when people are dying. It 's been a stimulus for latent anti Chinese racism in the west
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.
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