COVID-19

[raven]

Blimey. We only wanted some 'cos MrRaven might be passing through Singapore airport in a fortnight & it seemed like a good idea to get it now.

[Pucksoppet]

And I'm not sure alcohol-based hand sanitisers will be particularly effective.

Hirose, R., et al. (2019). Situations Leading to Reduced Effectiveness of Current Hand Hygiene against Infectious Mucus from Influenza Virus-Infected Patients. Applied and Environmental Science.

I simply don't know if the differences in structure between Influenza and Coronavirus ( [1], [2], [3] ) make any difference.

Alcohol-based sanitisers are probably better than nothing, but as I understand it, proper hand-washing with soap and water (long enough to sing 'Happy Birthday' twice) is still the recommended approach.

[raven]

I know alcohol gels don't work particularly well against norovirus. I mainly used them when I'm out and about, and don't have access to soap and water.

That Reuters graphic site is great. Pretty maps/graphs charting the cases here:https://graphics.reuters.com/CHINA-HEAL ... index.html

[bob sterman]

Some bad maths from an NHS trust "boss" in this article...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... c-strategy

"The boss of another trust said: “About 17% of people who contract the virus need some sort of medical intervention. So if this properly catches hold you have a 17% increase in the number of people coming through the NHS’s door, and then everything falls over.”"

[jimbob]

Interesting reading re "Case 31" in South Korea, the cause of the huge outbreak there: https://graphics.reuters.com/CHINA-HEAL ... index.html

It is, thanks, and interesting conflicting story between the doctors and her

[headshot]

My brother in law’s partner is a dentist in Germany and she just told me they now have only two weeks supplies of face masks left at their practice with no suppliers able to offer any replinishments for the foreseeable.

I’m arguing regularly with people I know on FB who have been trying to buy stocks of face masks about how ineffective they are, but it seems that people are disregarding the evidence, panic buying masks and preventing medical professionals from getting hold of any.

[dyqik]

It's almost like illustrating every story about preparations with people wearing masks even if you say that they are useless and hand washing is most important is a f.cking criminal thing to do.

[mediocrity511]

Is gov.uk probably the best source of what you need to know about coronavirus? Or possibly NHS website?

I'm getting serious anxiety over it, so need to step back from reading everything, but obviously still want to be informed about what precautions I should be taking. I need some kind of pandemics for the peturbed information, that isn't doom mongering but still disseminates the essentials.

Last time I had an anxiety spiral was probably about 6 years ago and I got very worried about the threat of nuclear war for some reason, ended up looking at how to convert a cellar into a bunker. This coronavirus stuff hits a lot of the stuff my anxiety thrives upon.

[Vertigowooyay]

Hand santiser sold out at Boots & Sainsburys today, which I suppose at least means the public health message on handwashing is getting through.

Doesn't mean they're using them though. Would imagine plenty will be stockpiled and a fair proportion never used and chucked in the bin in a years time.

Mother in law works in Boots, they had 120 on the shelves when they opened at 9am yesterday, by 10:30, sold out. In the end, put in a two-per-customer restriction, I think.

uk.camelcamelcamel.com tracks amazon prices. Hand sanitiser gel has gone crazy. 50ml bottles are now selling for £60!

Screenshot 2020-02-29 at 20.39.26.jpg

Saw an actual fight between two women in Tesco this morning over last bottle on shelf. An *actual* fight, with security having to intervene. Never seen anything like it.

[jimbob]

It's almost like illustrating every story about preparations with people wearing masks even if you say that they are useless and hand washing is most important is a f.cking criminal thing to do.

Yup. Like the Express headlines that are undemined by their story underneath, but people still remember the ten words that take up 80% of the area.

[jimbob]

Saw an actual fight between two women in Tesco this morning over last bottle on shelf. An *actual* fight, with security having to intervene. Never seen anything like it.

Yes, because if there's a risk of a highly-infectious disease I really want to be wrestling with complete strangers.

[bmforre]

My brother in law’s partner is a dentist in Germany and she just told me they now have only two weeks supplies of face masks left at their practice with no suppliers able to offer any replinishments for the foreseeable.

I’m arguing regularly with people I know on FB who have been trying to buy stocks of face masks about how ineffective they are, but it seems that people are disregarding the evidence, panic buying masks and preventing medical professionals from getting hold of any.

Must they start to repurpose bandannas?
Will dentists increasingly look like traditional robbers?

[Pucksoppet]

Is gov.uk probably the best source of what you need to know about coronavirus? Or possibly NHS website?

Yes. Both.

In both cases the responsible organisations employ real, actual experts (the kind of people Michael Gove said we no longer needed) to provide the best advice available.

Mass media websites, and other random websites, even if operated by people with relevant qualifications, do not have access to the same quantity and quality of resources. Many clever, well qualified people offer appallingly bad advice because they do not have access to the reams of official information that .gov and the NHS have. Groups of experts working together in a structured manner have a better track-record of finding good solutions than (maverick) individuals.

Of course, what you need to know and what you want to know can be two different things.

You are right to have a level of concern, and being aware of your options is good, but keep your rational, practical head on, which I know is easier said than done, but you'll get a lot of support here. You have very successfully managed your anxieties in the past, which shows you can do it, and there is no reason you cannot manage any unwarranted anxieties just as well, if not better now using your experience. You can do it. You have done it.

[raven]

Is gov.uk probably the best source of what you need to know about coronavirus? Or possibly NHS website?

I'm getting serious anxiety over it, so need to step back from reading everything

I'm the opposite -- uncertainty makes me worrry, I'm much better if I know numbers & facts & worst case scenarios. But I can well understand a lot of people getting wound up by the coverage because most of it is overblown and unhelpful & needing to take a step back.

I find NHS Scotland's site (NHSInform) is sometimes better written than the general NHS one.

[mediocrity511]

Is gov.uk probably the best source of what you need to know about coronavirus? Or possibly NHS website?

I'm getting serious anxiety over it, so need to step back from reading everything

I'm the opposite -- uncertainty makes me worrry, I'm much better if I know numbers & facts & worst case scenarios. But I can well understand a lot of people getting wound up by the coverage because most of it is overblown and unhelpful & needing to take a step back.

I find NHS Scotland's site (NHSInform) is sometimes better written than the general NHS one.

I think possibly I need to stop reading comments on things more than anything. Facts are good, but it's trying to avoid comment and speculation. It's not helped by the fact that I feel like our living situation makes it difficult to minimise our risk, living in a densely populated inner city area and being reliant on public transport. I just want to flee to my mum's in the wilds of North Yorkshire but miniocrity's school and Mr mediocrity's work make that all but impossible.

[El Pollo Diablo]

Work gave everyone - 40,000 people - a little bottle of hand sanitiser. At the point where there's significant amounts of in-country spread going on, and it's known to have reached the area, then I might start using it. For now it's sat next to my lego model of the Seattle Space Needle and the keys to a different security lock to the one which secures my laptop, which I keep next to my laptop to annoy Security.

[mikeh]

Is gov.uk probably the best source of what you need to know about coronavirus? Or possibly NHS website?

Yes. Both.

In both cases the responsible organisations employ real, actual experts (the kind of people Michael Gove said we no longer needed) to provide the best advice available.

Agreed. See
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus ... the-public
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/

And for an international outlook, see
https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease ... virus-2019

Plenty of reliable information on those pages, updates regularly.

And also agree about the experts thing. The UK politicians, for example Hancock as health secretary, are essentially repeating verbatim what the experts are saying. There will be a fair bit of Chief Medical Officer Prof Chris Whitty (who is awesome) basically sitting down in front of Matt Hancock, and telling him "you are saying this, and no you're not going to argue about it, do not mess around". This is of course a good thing. Hancock has been sounding actually competent these last few weeks.

Compare and contrast with the American response, Trump et al, to the outbreak. Add in the general complexities of the US healthcare system, lack of testing so far, and there's a nice concoction across the pond that could get a lot worse over a longer period of time before it gets better.

[lpm]

This is what I said three weeks ago, on 7 February:

Can we start panicking preparing now?

Yes

Not many of those hand sanitiser things left on Amazon.

It wasn't exactly hard to predict. I got a bunch cheaply, distributed them to family members, all set for when they might be needed in a few weeks.

[lpm]

The US is going to be one of the worst global culprits. Combination of:

- incompetent politicians and evisceration of the CDC
- no sick pay and loads of people who always continue working when they have a cold
- no public healthcare, so people will avoid disclosing their condition out of fear of a huge medical bill

It's like Indonesia, but the US has far more flights to the UK than Indonesia does. I spent today with someone who's just back from California - obviously California is huge and the chances are minute, but it makes you think.

[shpalman]

The US has fewer flights to Italy as of earlier today.

Meanwhile, we know that the virus is more serious not only in older people but also in medical professionals, perhaps because they are exposed to a heavier viral load.

So let's get retired doctors to come back and help. There will literally be no downsides.

The number this evening is 1694 total positives (minus 34 who have died and 83 have recovered, so 1577 current positives) of which 984 are/were in Lombardy.

(About 21000 swabs taken to get these numbers)

[bjn]

This is what I said three weeks ago, on 7 February:

Yes

Not many of those hand sanitiser things left on Amazon.

It wasn't exactly hard to predict. I got a bunch cheaply, distributed them to family members, all set for when they might be needed in a few weeks.

I went DIY and bought 500g of Aloe Vera gel and 1 of isopropyl alcohol for £20.

[bob sterman]

I went DIY and bought 500g of Aloe Vera gel and 1 of isopropyl alcohol for £20.

Think I'll try strawberry jelly and some overproof vodka.

[Pucksoppet]

I went DIY and bought 500g of Aloe Vera gel and 1 of isopropyl alcohol for £20.

Think I'll try strawberry jelly and some overproof vodka.

The WHO publishes guidelines on preparation of handrubs: WHO: Guide to Local Production:WHO-recommended Handrub Formulations.

The amount of alcohol (ethanol or iso-propanol) is important - both too little and too much renders the product less effective.

[Trinucleus]

I went DIY and bought 500g of Aloe Vera gel and 1 of isopropyl alcohol for £20.

Think I'll try strawberry jelly and some overproof vodka.

The WHO publishes guidelines on preparation of handrubs: WHO: Guide to Local Production:WHO-recommended Handrub Formulations.

The amount of alcohol (ethanol or iso-propanol) is important - both too little and too much renders the product less effective.

That's handy. Can you use methylated spirit for the alcohol?

[bjn]

I went DIY and bought 500g of Aloe Vera gel and 1 of isopropyl alcohol for £20.

Think I'll try strawberry jelly and some overproof vodka.

The WHO publishes guidelines on preparation of handrubs: WHO: Guide to Local Production:WHO-recommended Handrub Formulations.

The amount of alcohol (ethanol or iso-propanol) is important - both too little and too much renders the product less effective.

Thanks. The recipe I saw was basically 80% isopropyl alcohol, 20% aloe vera. Going to add the H₂O₂ as suggested by the article.