Is life in London terrible?

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Is life in London terrible?

Post by Grumble » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:29 pm

There are a couple of articles on the Guardian currently about how loads of people are leaving London for cities further north. This one for example. One thing they have in common is a passing reference to how terrible life is in London, with working all hours god sends and never having any money to go out. Is it really so bad in London? I know I don’t get home till after 6pm sometimes, and I bought a round for 6 people last night that cost £24 which is a lot more than it used to be. And my house would probably cost over £220k if I bought it now, which is more than a sensible multiple of an average income.
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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by discovolante » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:45 pm

I lived in London for 4 years until last October when I moved up to Scotland. I think the primary issue is it is impossible to be able to afford property. I earned a pretty decent wage but still lived in a flat share. It was busy and noisy and stressful. It was also fun and never boring but I think unless you grew up there or have lived there a long time it's hard to imagine yourself living there long term and 'settling down'. It did wonders for my career (or would have done if I had stayed) but there was nothing else particularly concrete keeping me there.

Obviously I am just one person but I suppose the point is isn't that life in London is 'terrible', it's just often unsustainable in the long term if you haven't already lived there for a long time and/or are basically already settled there.

I was talking to someone about it who grew up in London and moved to Scotland and she said that quite a few people she knew had moved to London, lived there a few years, realised they couldn't live there forever and decided to leave, but at the same time felt a bit worried that they would miss the 'buzz' and excitement of being in London, but in the end realising that it's actually fine. Which I think was a pretty astute summary.
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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:59 pm

A lot of my friends moved to London in their early twenties. Most of the ones that aren't from rich families have left now, or are planning to. I think it's just that the sh.tty conditions everyone experiences when entering the workforce are exacerbated to the extreme by stuff like the insane cost of living and lack of functioning communities.
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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by plebian » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:01 am

The cost of living is crap however many a gay I know has moved there from provincial town and loves the actual existence of other gays.

Manchester however exists and once they find.out about it, most have moved there. Or Brighton if they were better off.

Point being for certain communties, theres more to London than the buzz.

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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by plodder » Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:33 am

London smells bad, the traffic is insane, the amount of people is insane, it costs too much and razzmatazz is b.llsh.t. However it is an excellent place to keep all the Londoners.

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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by Grumble » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:15 am

I’ve always enjoyed visiting London, and presumably there is still a pressure of more people wanting to move into/gets jobs in London at the root of all this.
discovolante wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:45 pm
I lived in London for 4 years until last October when I moved up to Scotland. I think the primary issue is it is impossible to be able to afford property. I earned a pretty decent wage but still lived in a flat share. It was busy and noisy and stressful. It was also fun and never boring but I think unless you grew up there or have lived there a long time it's hard to imagine yourself living there long term and 'settling down'. It did wonders for my career (or would have done if I had stayed) but there was nothing else particularly concrete keeping me there.

Obviously I am just one person but I suppose the point is isn't that life in London is 'terrible', it's just often unsustainable in the long term if you haven't already lived there for a long time and/or are basically already settled there.

I was talking to someone about it who grew up in London and moved to Scotland and she said that quite a few people she knew had moved to London, lived there a few years, realised they couldn't live there forever and decided to leave, but at the same time felt a bit worried that they would miss the 'buzz' and excitement of being in London, but in the end realising that it's actually fine. Which I think was a pretty astute summary.
You were one I thought of when I read the articles. Didn’t Tessa move out of London as well? It can’t be good for a city in the medium to long term if young professionals can’t afford to stay there, but I guess if they are constantly replaced by a stream of new young professionals then it might carry on in the same way for a while.
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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by bob sterman » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:17 am

Yes - it's terrible.

Just terrible in different ways to the other terrible alternatives. And hugely over-rated. Many other UK cities are grim - but at least you expect them to be like that and they aren't hyped like London is.

But each to their own. Whatever floats your boat, clogs your lungs or empties your bank account!

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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by mikeh » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:46 pm

Lived in London for 11 years, loved it. With the aid of one of them government loan schemes, bought a 2-bed flat in zone 3. Only reason we left london was the presence of 2 small children, and buying a bigger property with any kind of garden was unaffordable.

My perception of it is this constant stream of young professionals heading to the big city, and when family life comes calling, many will head out again, having done their time there. Certainly that's my story.

Also remember that you don't have to go that far out from central London for the density of people, noise, pollution etc to be much much quieter. My commute for a few years was walking across Hampstead Heath. And when I moved on from there, I was getting the tube, but always got a seat and the trains weren't stupidly rammed.

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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:30 pm

Grumble wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:15 am
I’ve always enjoyed visiting London, and presumably there is still a pressure of more people wanting to move into/gets jobs in London at the root of all this.
My impression - facts may also be available - is that airbnb and similar have put an extra pressure on the housing supply - why would you rent a room to a working person for £700/month when you could rent it to tourists for £100/night?

Technically there are limits on how many nights you can do that for, but as ever the regulators are underfunded and pretty toothless and there are ways around it. Entire blocks of apartments get used as pseudo-hotels via airbnb, rather than housing locals.

For instance this recent case https://www.wired.co.uk/article/airbnb-scam-london
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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:33 pm

Also, I think the high turnover in some sectors (especially the service industry) makes it difficult for people to make proper friends, as nobody is really attached to a workplace or geographical area or anything. A lot of my friends have been really lonely there.
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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by Grumble » Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:48 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:30 pm
Grumble wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:15 am
I’ve always enjoyed visiting London, and presumably there is still a pressure of more people wanting to move into/gets jobs in London at the root of all this.
My impression - facts may also be available - is that airbnb and similar have put an extra pressure on the housing supply - why would you rent a room to a working person for £700/month when you could rent it to tourists for £100/night?

Technically there are limits on how many nights you can do that for, but as ever the regulators are underfunded and pretty toothless and there are ways around it. Entire blocks of apartments get used as pseudo-hotels via airbnb, rather than housing locals.

For instance this recent case https://www.wired.co.uk/article/airbnb-scam-london
AirBnB seems to cause problems wherever it goes, and that article was eye opening about scams.
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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by nefibach » Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:55 pm

When I were a young'n, it was really common for people to move to London for a bit to advance in their careers, then go home having learnt stuff and developed skills that were locally in demand. Doing a stint in London was just, well, normal. Going home afterwards was also normal.

Then it seemed to transmute into this idea that you moved to London and stayed there because home was too sh.t to return to. I think there was an edge of snobbery involved as well. But that happened just as living there started to get extremely unaffordable, instead of merely very expensive.

I've done 10 years in London, and when at the end of my second stint we moved out to Woking, we cut our living costs by 40% and had more money to actually do all the fun things we wanted to do but couldn't afford to do when we actually lived there. And it still only took half an hour to get into town. And it was quieter, which turned out to be a thing I valued.

I still love London, but I'd never live there again unless I came into extreme amounts of money.

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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:40 am

I do not love London. Its nice to visit every now and again but I'd much rather be in Manchester. Unfortunately, I'm in London more than I'm in Manchester 😔

I lived in sw London for four years, working in the city for two of those. Going back now to see my wife's family, I'm struck by just how stressful it is to be there. The drivers are c.nts, the people are ignorant w.nkers, there's almost no sense of community and much of the suburban areas are just endless suburb with no character at all.
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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by Stephanie » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:21 am

I love London, I miss it terribly. We moved out and then I moved back for uni, but couldn't afford to stay there after I graduated.

I think, echoing Pleb's comments, community depends how well you're accepted into one. Some places aren't particularly welcoming, especially if you're not white, straight, etc.
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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by Tessa K » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:15 pm

I've been in London for more years than I care to mention. It has changed a lot and not always for the better - Camden market is now being turned into the shittier bits of Oxford Street, which is a sadness to me.

Yes, it's stupidly expensive for housing but I wouldn't live anywhere else, especially not in a rural area, having grown up in one. I certainly don't want to be somewhere it takes an ambulance an hour to get to as I get older.

I like having everything I want mostly within a walk or bus ride, most of my friends are here, I love my gym and there are plenty of things to do that are not overly expensive.

It's expensive to visit friends who live out of London but that would be the case wherever I lived as I don't drive and overpriced train fares are not exclusive to London.

I've always lived fairly centrally (various parts of Camden borough) and I like the diversity of people, shops, restaurants and things to do. Yes, other cities have some or all of that but this feels like home. I don't find the people any more or less unpleasant than 20 years ago and public transport is better.

The population isn't shrinking so I'm guessing the people moving out are the ones who have portable job skills, mostly middle class or ones with family elsewhere.

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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by Brightonian » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:41 pm

I'm a Londoner originally and I'd move back in an instant if I could, and continually return, staying in cheap Airbnbs as and when I can.

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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by rockdoctor » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:46 pm

My family has a pretty nice life in London, but it depends on me earning loads. When I retire in a few years, and the kids are making their own way in life, I plan to sell our overpriced terrace house and move somewhere else (quite probably to the westernmost bit of Germany where my wife is from)
London is great in many ways, but I wouldn't stay here unless I had a job.

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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by Rich Scopie » Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:18 pm

mikeh wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:46 pm
Lived in London for 11 years, loved it. With the aid of one of them government loan schemes, bought a 2-bed flat in zone 3. Only reason we left london was the presence of 2 small children, and buying a bigger property with any kind of garden was unaffordable.

My perception of it is this constant stream of young professionals heading to the big city, and when family life comes calling, many will head out again, having done their time there. Certainly that's my story.

Also remember that you don't have to go that far out from central London for the density of people, noise, pollution etc to be much much quieter. My commute for a few years was walking across Hampstead Heath. And when I moved on from there, I was getting the tube, but always got a seat and the trains weren't stupidly rammed.
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Ah, but in those days, everything cost sixpence, was made of wood, and lasted forever.

Being a bit less flippant, I loved living in London - moved out about 17 years ago, selling a flat and buying a fairly big house for the same money. I couldn't afford to go the other way now, mainly after what happened to property prices in E15 when they announced the Stratford Olympics.

Still love visiting though, although the beer prices tend to bring out the Yorkshire warcry...
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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by Gfamily » Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:37 pm

At uni, and during first few years of working, I had 2 years living in Gower St accommodation, and other years in Hendon, Neasden and Southgate.

Living in Central London as a student* was great, and recent visits to take part in Anti-Brexit marches has reminded me how beautiful and humane so much of it is as an urban environment.
The suburbs often less so.

* late 70s to early 80s
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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by Opti » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:42 pm

I was born, lived, was educated, worked, had a business ... the lot, in West London. In my 20's lived on Elgin Avenue then World's End. After that we settled down in leafy Ealing. Loved it. Then didn't. Moved down to Gloucestershire in 1998, never thought about coming back. ddb thinks differently.
Now we have a new life. Loving it. The thought of ever having to live in the UK again fills me with dread.
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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by Tessa K » Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:03 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:37 pm
At uni, and during first few years of working, I had 2 years living in Gower St accommodation, and other years in Hendon, Neasden and Southgate.

Living in Central London as a student* was great, and recent visits to take part in Anti-Brexit marches has reminded me how beautiful and humane so much of it is as an urban environment.
The suburbs often less so.

* late 70s to early 80s
Were you at UCL? I was and spent a summer in the Gower Street accomodation. It was pretty scruffy but a great location. Later on, I lived for 20 years near there and loved it.

There are few places better if you have 'alternative' interests.

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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by gosling » Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:06 pm

Settled in London twelve years ago when I moved in with my girlfriend. Had pretty much spent every weekend for the previous five years here, as Plebian said, to spend time with the other gays.

We are lucky - both on professional salaries so could just about afford a small house in West London after the last housing slump. We would not be able to afford the same place now. Only 20 minutes on the tube to central London for theatre/museums/galleries, but live on a nice estate next to a big park. We even know most of the neighbours.

The tube may be crowded and dirty at times, but it's frequent and runs all night at weekends. When I was in Peterborough, we had one bus an hour in the evenings and the last one left town at 22.50, so never time for last orders. Having said all that, I would hate to live here if most of my income was going on rent - the house next to ours is rented out for £1800 a month, and the (greedy bastard) landlord wants to put it up to £2200. Our mortgage is half that.

Will be interesting to see what Brexit does to house prices and rents.

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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by basementer » Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:16 pm

London in the 1980s was a collection of villages; each area had its own character. Opti and I must have been in the same pub at the same time more than once (lived on Tavistock Road, drank around the Portobello) but I only strayed into Tessa's neck of the woods to buy stuff from the London Rock Shop.
Portobello market has probably gone the same way as Camden market. I bet the villageness persists though.
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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by mediocrity511 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:19 pm

gosling wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:06 pm
Settled in London twelve years ago when I moved in with my girlfriend. Had pretty much spent every weekend for the previous five years here, as Plebian said, to spend time with the other gays.

We are lucky - both on professional salaries so could just about afford a small house in West London after the last housing slump. We would not be able to afford the same place now. Only 20 minutes on the tube to central London for theatre/museums/galleries, but live on a nice estate next to a big park. We even know most of the neighbours.

The tube may be crowded and dirty at times, but it's frequent and runs all night at weekends. When I was in Peterborough, we had one bus an hour in the evenings and the last one left town at 22.50, so never time for last orders. Having said all that, I would hate to live here if most of my income was going on rent - the house next to ours is rented out for £1800 a month, and the (greedy bastard) landlord wants to put it up to £2200. Our mortgage is half that.

Will be interesting to see what Brexit does to house prices and rents.
I find London stressful, but I live in the inner city of somewhere else and I wouldn't want to be in a small town or suburbs anywhere. I love being in a city (and one with very good public transport), love how there's always things going on, love how diverse it is. We couldn't afford London at all, where we are is still pretty affordable, despite having some of the fastest growing house prices in the country. If we c9uod just be nearer the coast...

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Re: Is life in London terrible?

Post by Imrael » Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:52 pm

Each to their own I guess. I moved to London from college but found it lonely and isolating. I was always aware how deep in the city I was . Plus expensive with unreliable transport. Guess I'm just naturally small town.

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