Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Covid-19 discussion, bring your own statistics
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Woodchopper
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:21 am

Breakthrough COVID-19 infection rate with Indian strain in Single-center Healthcare Workers: A real world data.


Abstract

Introduction: It is observed that many healthcare workers got COVID19 infection despite of completing both doses of Covishield vaccine. This study aimed to find real incidence of vaccine breakthrough infection. Material and methods: All hospital employees, who were fully vaccinated were included in study. Details about their vaccine side effects, infection prior to vaccination, post vaccination infection, severity of infection, hospital and ICU admission were noted. Results: None encountered any significant side effects of vaccine. Of the 461 participants, 86 (18.65%) got infection average 38 days (range 14 to 70days) after vaccination. As per the NIH classification, out of 86, disease was mild in 69(80.2%), moderate in 10(11.62%), severe in 6(6.97%) and critical in 1(1.16%). Of these, 10(11.62%) required hospital admission. Of these 10, 2 were shifted to ICU. Of the 2, One recovered while one died. Thus mortality was 1/86(1.6%). Conclusion: Breakthrough infection rate in health care workers was 18.65%. Moderate, severe or critical disease occurred in 19.7% participants even after two doses of vaccine. Mortality due to disease cannot be completely obviated due to vaccine. The vaccine was safe without any significant adverse events.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 21258881v1

Seems in line with the UK population level data.

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by raven » Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:06 pm

So, very roughly, for every 500 vaccinated people, 100 might get Covid. Of those, 10 are admitted to hospital, 2 will need ICU, only one will die. That's not bad.

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:55 am

raven wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:06 pm
So, very roughly, for every 500 vaccinated people, 100 might get Covid. Of those, 10 are admitted to hospital, 2 will need ICU, only one will die. That's not bad.
Its much better than it is now. In the short term the things to worry about are deaths and hospital admissions when hundreds of thousands are infected each day, and long covid among the people who weren't admitted to hospital. In the long run, 10 in 500 going to hospital and 1 in 500 dying look pretty bad if that's going to happen during several waves per year, every year in the future, especially as some will get long covid and may be sick for months or years.

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:01 pm

raven wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:06 pm
So, very roughly, for every 500 vaccinated people, 100 might get Covid. Of those, 10 are admitted to hospital, 2 will need ICU, only one will die. That's not bad.
In a country of 50 million people that's 1 million admitted to hospital and 200,000 needing the ICU, and with a high R number, that peak will tend to come all at once.

In January this year the UK had 40,000 in hospital and 4000 on ventilation.
molto tricky

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine (variants)

Post by jdc » Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:38 pm

Pfizer are looking to trial their Delta variant vaccine in August: https://www.ft.com/content/ae58b9c6-c11 ... 1815248701

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by jdc » Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:49 pm

Following verification of the candidate’s safety in a group of adolescents aged 12 to 18, clinical trials of Soberana-Pediatria continue with the inclusion of a second group of volunteers in the three to 11 age group, Yury Valdes Balbin, assistant director of the Finlay Vaccine Institute, reported.

The results of the security investigation revealed no adverse side effects, thus allowing for younger children to be included and the group of volunteers expanded to 150.

Specialists at the Finlay Institute explained that this is an open study with no placebos administered, and also adaptive, meaning that modifications can be made, if elements appear that indicate a change in the study’s design.
http://en.granma.cu/cuba/2021-06-28/cin ... -age-begin

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Herainestold » Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:58 pm

Cuba approves three dose Abdala vaccine
Cuba on Friday, July 9, approved its home-grown COVID-19 vaccine for emergency use named ‘Abdala’. The country known for manufacturing nearly 80 percent of all its inoculations announced on Friday that the CECMED health regulators gave a go-ahead to the Latin American coronavirus jab for kick-starting the country’s mass vaccination campaign. Last month, makers of Adbala announced in a statement that the locally produced vaccine candidate had turned back 92 percent efficacy in neutralizing the COVID-19 virus post three doses. The country manufactured as many as five coronavirus vaccines and started inoculation in May using Abdala and Soberana 2 even before the emergency approvals, according to several reports.

As of Friday, July 9, at least 6.8 million of Cuba's 11.2 million people have already been administered one shot of the homegrown vaccine. Nearly 1.6 million have been “fully” vaccinated with the three doses regime as the country ramped up the vaccination drive to curb the infections from the variant. According to the state-run BioCubaFarma laboratory’s statement issued last month, Abdala "shows the efficacy of 92.28 percent in its three-dose scheme.” This met the WHO’s 50-percent efficacy threshold for the jab approval that can further initiate the global rollout.
And an intranasal vaccine
Cuba reveals the third COVID antigen under making

At a press conference held in Havana on Friday, separately, the Cuban health authorities also revealed the third antigen against the virus named Mambisa which is currently under the development phase. “This vaccine is intranasal and taken in the form of a few drops introduced into the nasal cavities. It can be used in convalescents and combined along with other vaccines can increase immunity against COVID-19,” The Associated Press explained. Currently, the Latin American nation has been reeling under the unprecedented surge of the variant wave with the central province of Matanzas as the epicenter where the Varadero Beach tourist resorts are located.
https://www.republicworld.com/world-new ... id-19.html
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Herainestold » Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:40 am

Mounting evidence suggests Sputnik COVID vaccine is safe and effective
Russia’s vaccine is in use in nearly 70 nations, but its adoption has been slowed by controversies and questions over rare side effects, and it has yet to garner World Health Organization approval.


Some of that concern was allayed when the phase III trial results1, published in February by the vaccine’s developers, suggested that it is 91.6% effective at preventing symptomatic COVID-19 infection and 100% effective at preventing severe infection. However, some scientists criticized the authors for failing to provide access to the full raw data from the early-stage trials, and also voiced concerns about changes in the vaccine’s administration protocol and inconsistencies in the data.

Unpublished data from 3.8 million Russians vaccinated with two doses also point to an efficacy of 97.6%, according to an April press release from the Gamaleya Institute. Figures released by the United Arab Emirates Ministry of Health, on some 81,000 individuals who had received two doses of the vaccine, suggested 97.8% efficacy in preventing symptomatic COVID-19 and 100% efficacy in preventing severe disease.

Russia’s phase III study also found that even one dose was 73.6% effective at preventing moderate to severe disease. This led the Russian health authorities to approve the one-dose Sputnik Light — which uses the rAd26 vector — in May, on the basis of data from the country’s own vaccination programme, which suggested that it was 79.4% effective at preventing symptomatic disease.

Since then, an as-yet unpublished study from the Buenos Aires health ministry in Argentina, involving 40,387 vaccinated and 146,194 unvaccinated people aged 60–79, found that a single dose of Sputnik Light reduced symptomatic infections by 78.6%, hospitalizations by 87.6% and deaths by 84.7%.
Kulish suggests there is also a “pro-Pfizer” stance within the EMA that is hampering Sputnik’s quest for authorization — a reference to the Pfizer–BioNTech vaccine co-developed by Pfizer in New York City and BioNTech in Mainz, Germany. A spokesperson for the EMA responded to that suggestion by pointing out that “the same standards” apply to all COVID-19 vaccine applicants, “no matter where in the world they are located”.
There are also concerns about Sputnik in Russia, which has high rates of COVID-vaccine hesitancy. A survey in March suggested that 62% of Russians did not plan to get vaccinated, and Russia is now introducing mandatory vaccinations for some government and other workers to boost vaccination rates. As of 28 June, only around 15% of Russia’s population of more than 140 million had received one dose of a vaccine.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586- ... ign=nature
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Martin_B » Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:42 am

Herainestold wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:40 am
Mounting evidence suggests Sputnik COVID vaccine is safe and effective
Russia’s vaccine is in use in nearly 70 nations, but its adoption has been slowed by controversies and questions over rare side effects, and it has yet to garner World Health Organization approval.


Some of that concern was allayed when the phase III trial results1, published in February by the vaccine’s developers, suggested that it is 91.6% effective at preventing symptomatic COVID-19 infection and 100% effective at preventing severe infection. However, some scientists criticized the authors for failing to provide access to the full raw data from the early-stage trials, and also voiced concerns about changes in the vaccine’s administration protocol and inconsistencies in the data.

Unpublished data from 3.8 million Russians vaccinated with two doses also point to an efficacy of 97.6%, according to an April press release from the Gamaleya Institute. Figures released by the United Arab Emirates Ministry of Health, on some 81,000 individuals who had received two doses of the vaccine, suggested 97.8% efficacy in preventing symptomatic COVID-19 and 100% efficacy in preventing severe disease.

Russia’s phase III study also found that even one dose was 73.6% effective at preventing moderate to severe disease. This led the Russian health authorities to approve the one-dose Sputnik Light — which uses the rAd26 vector — in May, on the basis of data from the country’s own vaccination programme, which suggested that it was 79.4% effective at preventing symptomatic disease.

Since then, an as-yet unpublished study from the Buenos Aires health ministry in Argentina, involving 40,387 vaccinated and 146,194 unvaccinated people aged 60–79, found that a single dose of Sputnik Light reduced symptomatic infections by 78.6%, hospitalizations by 87.6% and deaths by 84.7%.
Kulish suggests there is also a “pro-Pfizer” stance within the EMA that is hampering Sputnik’s quest for authorization — a reference to the Pfizer–BioNTech vaccine co-developed by Pfizer in New York City and BioNTech in Mainz, Germany. A spokesperson for the EMA responded to that suggestion by pointing out that “the same standards” apply to all COVID-19 vaccine applicants, “no matter where in the world they are located”.
There are also concerns about Sputnik in Russia, which has high rates of COVID-vaccine hesitancy. A survey in March suggested that 62% of Russians did not plan to get vaccinated, and Russia is now introducing mandatory vaccinations for some government and other workers to boost vaccination rates. As of 28 June, only around 15% of Russia’s population of more than 140 million had received one dose of a vaccine.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586- ... ign=nature
Effective. No evidence on safety given in that article. It states that side-effects are similar to other adenovirus vaccines, and also that there is not enough evidence provided by the Russian trials, and insufficient notification through real-life use, to identify whether the blood-clotting issue with the similar AZ and J&J vaccines will also occur with Sputnik. So it's not necessarily better, and more expensive, than AZ. I can understand why the WHO is waiting to authorise it.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:34 am

The developers of Russia’s Sputnik V coronavirus vaccine have repeatedly failed to provide data that regulators deem to be standard requirements of the drug approval process, according to five people with knowledge of European efforts to assess the drug, providing new insight into the country’s struggle to win foreign acceptance of its product.

Reuters reported last month that the European Medicines Agency (EMA)’s review of the drug’s safety and efficacy was delayed because a June 10 deadline to submit data on the vaccine’s clinical trials was missed, according to one of those people, who is close to the agency, and another person familiar with the matter. The EMA is the European Union’s medicines watchdog.

The hitches go beyond that one deadline, the person close to the agency said. As of early June, the EMA had received hardly any manufacturing data, and the clinical data the agency had received was incomplete, the person said.

Separately, an assessment of Sputnik V by a French delegation of scientists in advance of the EMA review found that the vaccine developers were unable to document that the so-called master cell bank, the initial building block of the vaccine, complied with specific EU regulation on preventing disease contamination, according to four people with knowledge of the delegation’s findings.

The EMA, which launched its formal review of the Russian vaccine in March, had previously been expected to decide in May or June whether to approve use of the drug in the EU.

The person close to the EMA said notable missing clinical information during the EMA review included case report forms that record any adverse effects people experienced after receiving the jab in trials. It is standard practice for developers to submit such forms, this person added. It was also not clear how the scientists working on the vaccine tracked the outcomes of people given a placebo, the person said.

The watchdog rates such data shortcomings on a scale that goes from “critical” - the most serious - to “major” to “minor.” The person said nothing had met the critical threshold, “but there are several ‘majors,’” indicating issues that can be remedied but require much work. The person added they didn’t expect the review to be completed until after the summer.

Several people who have interacted with Russia’s Gamaleya Institute, which developed Sputnik V and oversaw the clinical trials, attribute the repeated failure to provide some information to lack of experience in dealing with overseas regulators. “They are not used to working with a regulatory agency like the EMA,” the person close to the agency said, referring to Gamaleya’s scientists.

[...]

In November 2020, the French government dispatched a team of scientists to Moscow to help Paris decide if it should use Sputnik V and manufacture the drug on French soil, in the event of EMA approval.

The four people with knowledge of the delegation’s findings said that the paperwork the scientists reviewed showed that fetal bovine serum had been used in the culture to nurture the master cell bank and that the developers hadn’t documented the serum’s origin.

Fetal bovine serum is commonly used around the world in vaccine development. But since the outbreak of mad cow disease in the 1980s, European and North American regulators have required that vaccine developers document it is from a safe source.

One of the four people familiar with the delegation’s work is French scientist Cecil Czerkinsky, a member of an international advisory board set up by RDIF and who was separately briefed on the delegation’s concerns about the master cell bank. The French team felt “frustration” with the answers they received when they asked the vaccine developers about the issue, Czerkinsky told Reuters.

The French delegation informally shared their conclusions -- including their questions regarding the master cell -- with the EMA, one of the people said.

[...]

The EMA in early March announced the launch of a “rolling review” of Sputnik V, a faster process that checks data as it lands. But the drug’s developers did not submit the first data until a month later, delaying the process at the earliest stages, said an official in the French government briefed on the matter.

France’s ministries for health and research, which sponsored the delegation to Moscow, did not respond to a request for comment on the delegation’s findings.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN2EJ0ET

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by tom p » Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:11 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:40 am
Kulish suggests there is also a “pro-Pfizer” stance within the EMA that is hampering Sputnik’s quest for authorization — a reference to the Pfizer–BioNTech vaccine co-developed by Pfizer in New York City and BioNTech in Mainz, Germany. A spokesperson for the EMA responded to that suggestion by pointing out that “the same standards” apply to all COVID-19 vaccine applicants, “no matter where in the world they are located”.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586- ... ign=nature
Dmitry Kulish, a biotechnology researcher at the Skolkovo Institute of Science and Technology in Moscow, who is not involved in the development of Sputnik V
How the f.ck would he know anything about the EMA? Why is the paranoid b.llsh.t from some nobody included in this piece?

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Chris Preston » Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:53 am

tom p wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:11 pm

How the f.ck would he know anything about the EMA? Why is the paranoid b.llsh.t from some nobody included in this piece?
Even though it is in Nature, it is just a news article and suffers a bit from false balance and not being able to access people who have the real information.

While I am not completely familiar with the regulatory process around vaccines, I have plenty of insight from other regulatory processes. It strikes me that there was a fair bit of corner cutting in the development of the Sputnik 5 vaccine.

There has developed a bit of nationalism around COVID-19 vaccines, most notably in Russia, but also evident elsewhere. For example, if our government had not been quite so Anglo-centric, we may not have put all our eggs in the AZ basket. The consequence of that nationalism about vaccines is that fellow nationals will react to criticism with conspiracy theories.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Herainestold » Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:44 pm

Chris Preston wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:53 am
tom p wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:11 pm

How the f.ck would he know anything about the EMA? Why is the paranoid b.llsh.t from some nobody included in this piece?
Even though it is in Nature, it is just a news article and suffers a bit from false balance and not being able to access people who have the real information.

While I am not completely familiar with the regulatory process around vaccines, I have plenty of insight from other regulatory processes. It strikes me that there was a fair bit of corner cutting in the development of the Sputnik 5 vaccine.

There has developed a bit of nationalism around COVID-19 vaccines, most notably in Russia, but also evident elsewhere. For example, if our government had not been quite so Anglo-centric, we may not have put all our eggs in the AZ basket. The consequence of that nationalism about vaccines is that fellow nationals will react to criticism with conspiracy theories.
A valid point. Aus is geographically part of Asia, it is too bad that relation s with China make it impossible to access the Chinese vaccines.
In retrospect the best policy seems to have been, keep your options option, and make sure you have opportunities to acquire any vaccine. If your options included Pfizer, so much the better. the others, not so much

Although AZ seems to have worked out okay for the UK. Not really for anywhere else.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Chris Preston » Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:40 am

In retrospect, the Chinese vaccines would have been a poor choice, given how poor they are against the delta variant. The Australian government turned down the opportunity to sign up for more of the Pfizer vaccine earlier.

The issue around the AstraZeneca vaccine is the side effects. Until this past week there had been no COVID-19 deaths in Australia this year, yet there have been several deaths due to blood clots associated with the AstraZeneca vaccine. Not having much of an alternative meant that people delayed getting vaccinated.

Hindsight can be wonderful, but there was every chance an issue would arise with one or more of the vaccines. Putting all the eggs in one basket was a riskier option.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Herainestold » Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:57 pm

Chris Preston wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:40 am
In retrospect, the Chinese vaccines would have been a poor choice, given how poor they are against the delta variant. The Australian government turned down the opportunity to sign up for more of the Pfizer vaccine earlier.

The issue around the AstraZeneca vaccine is the side effects. Until this past week there had been no COVID-19 deaths in Australia this year, yet there have been several deaths due to blood clots associated with the AstraZeneca vaccine. Not having much of an alternative meant that people delayed getting vaccinated.

Hindsight can be wonderful, but there was every chance an issue would arise with one or more of the vaccines. Putting all the eggs in one basket was a riskier option.
There isn't any evidence that the Chinese vaccines have done any worse with respect to Delta than any of the other vaccines. Remember that Pfizer's efficacy against Delta is only 33/64 for one or two doses respectively. Some countries like Chile and Mongolia have used the Chinese vaccines successfully to battle recent surges against variants. China's Guangdong province had a recent Delta surge which was successfully contained. The Covid vaccines have only weak tertiary efficacy, that is efficacy against transmission, so they need to be used in conjunction with other interventions to be successful.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by headshot » Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:36 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:57 pm
Remember that Pfizer's efficacy against Delta is only 33/64 for one or two doses respectively.
At preventing *any* infection as per a study by Israel. But more research has found the Pfizer vaccine to be more effective:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 1/fulltext

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart ... t-we-know/

93% effective at preventing serious disease and hospitalisation.

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Herainestold » Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:03 pm

headshot wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:36 pm
Herainestold wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:57 pm
Remember that Pfizer's efficacy against Delta is only 33/64 for one or two doses respectively.
At preventing *any* infection as per a study by Israel. But more research has found the Pfizer vaccine to be more effective:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 1/fulltext

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart ... t-we-know/

93% effective at preventing serious disease and hospitalisation.
Yes there seems to be some discrepancy between efficacy estimates from different studies. All of them show decreased efficacy against Delta.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Pishwish » Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:30 pm

shpalman wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:10 pm
Don't the editors see the papers before they're published, or what is the point of editors?

I've heard of Harald Walach though, he's an author of this f.cking pile of sh.t and this other f.cking pile of sh.t.
reputable open-access journal launched in 2013 by Basel, Switzerland–based publisher MDPI
Lol.
Apologies if this is posted elsewhere, his other paper on masks that was rubbished by James Heathers has been retracted. Assuming this twitter account is genuine, his university has severed ties with him.

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Herainestold » Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:10 am

Chile has given emergency approval to the Sputnik vaccine
SANTIAGO, July 21 (Reuters) - Chile's Institute of Public Health approved emergency use of the Russian Sputnik-V vaccine against COVID-19, joining the country's already massive inoculation program, the institute said in a statement.

One of the institute's experts voted against the approval, and two abstained, asking for more information about the efficacy of the formula developed by Russia's Gamaleya Institute. Five members of the committee convened by the institute voted for approval. read more

"We have approved the Sputnik-V vaccine to be used in Chile," institute President Heriberto Garcia said in the statement. The committee evaluated data from Chile as well as Mexico and Argentina, where the Russian vaccine is also applied, he said.

Garcia said no major adverse effects from Sputnik-V had been observed. To date the country has given more than 13 million of its 19 million inhabitants at least one vaccine dose from an arsenal that includes Pfizer, Sinovac and AstraZeneca.
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/ ... 021-07-21/
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:03 am

Evidence from Israel of waning immunity provided by the Pfizer vaccine: https://twitter.com/nadav_eyal/status/1 ... 34467?s=21

Still pretty tentative though.

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:46 am

Effectiveness of Covid-19 Vaccines against the B.1.617.2 (Delta) Variant
Effectiveness after one dose of vaccine (BNT162b2 or ChAdOx1 nCoV-19) was notably lower among persons with the delta variant (30.7%; 95% confidence interval [CI], 25.2 to 35.7) than among those with the alpha variant (48.7%; 95% CI, 45.5 to 51.7); the results were similar for both vaccines. With the BNT162b2 vaccine, the effectiveness of two doses was 93.7% (95% CI, 91.6 to 95.3) among persons with the alpha variant and 88.0% (95% CI, 85.3 to 90.1) among those with the delta variant. With the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine, the effectiveness of two doses was 74.5% (95% CI, 68.4 to 79.4) among persons with the alpha variant and 67.0% (95% CI, 61.3 to 71.8) among those with the delta variant.
So, one dose of either vaccine 48.7% against Alpha -> 30.7% against Delta.

Both doses Pfizer 93.7% Alpha -> 88.0% Delta.

Both doses AstraZeneca 74.5% Alpha -> 67.0% Delta.
molto tricky

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Chris Preston » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:58 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:03 am
Evidence from Israel of waning immunity provided by the Pfizer vaccine: https://twitter.com/nadav_eyal/status/1 ... 34467?s=21

Still pretty tentative though.
Further down the thread is a similar looking graph for infections that occurred in March. That suggests it may be something about the group vaccinated in the first two weeks, rather than significantly waning immunity.

There has been some discussion that the Pfizer vaccine is less effective in older people.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:43 pm

Chris Preston wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:58 am
Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:03 am
Evidence from Israel of waning immunity provided by the Pfizer vaccine: https://twitter.com/nadav_eyal/status/1 ... 34467?s=21

Still pretty tentative though.
Further down the thread is a similar looking graph for infections that occurred in March. That suggests it may be something about the group vaccinated in the first two weeks, rather than significantly waning immunity.

There has been some discussion that the Pfizer vaccine is less effective in older people.
Good point. Israel also had a three week gap between doses whereas the UK had eight weeks, which turns out to be more effective. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57929953

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by sTeamTraen » Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:06 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:43 pm
Good point. Israel also had a three week gap between doses whereas the UK had eight weeks, which turns out to be more effective. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57929953
Every country that respected the manufacturer's recommendations had a three-week gap with Pfizer and a four-week gap with Moderna. The only major country I know that didn't do this was the UK, when it was realised that having a bigger gap either (a) provided at least some protection for more people more quickly or (b) enabled the headline number of how many people have been vaccinated to look bigger (delete according to political position). Interestingly, the first person I saw mention that idea in public was Tony Blair, so presumably he was thinking of (a).
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:11 pm

Italy made its gap between Pfizers a bit longer. It was 5 weeks for Dance Partner, for example, who had her second dose less than two weeks ago.
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