CO19 Dilemmas

Covid-19 discussion, bring your own statistics
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tenchboy
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CO19 Dilemmas

Post by tenchboy » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:38 am

So. I live alone work alone play alone; it's my choice: I like it.
At one place I work, last week I set 500 dahlia seeds in the greenhouse: I need to go up and lift the covers during the day or they will cook in this sunshine; if I leave the covers off they might survive a cold night but they will dry out: they will need watering every other day.
I can go up there, speak to no one and get on with it.
Could I look in while I'm 'shopping'? It's walkable; could I look in while I'm 'exercising'?

Grass cutting. This is just the time of year when the grass starts growing and grows most - this time of year the grass is racing to produce a seed head, the whole plant grows; the rest of the year its just the continued growth of the leaves.
Again I could go out, cut a bit of grass, just keep things tidy rather than face a wall of knee high grass in a month's time.
All without meeting or speaking to anyone.
But it seems wrong - seems like 'being clever' - to go out when everyone else is staying in like they've been told to.
Even though I'd be further away from people than if I stayed at home.

As for play: conservation work; I could go out to the lake I look after - which I used to fish but don't now because I enjoy working there so much more - it's a SSSI, I look after one of the rarest grasses in the country, there is one other major site and that is declining due to reduced management, ours is improving because we/I have initiated and maintained a sympathetic management programme that benefits the grass and is tolerated by the anglers.
But it involves cutting back all other competing bank-side and marginal vegetation to allow it to flourish: that's why it is so rare, it just won't compete with anything.

This time of year the margins need keeping clear of reed and rush growth and the banks away from the edge where it grows, need lawn mowering before they take off.
Again I could go down there spend the day there and not see a soul.

But none of is essential by anyone's measure is it?
And if I do go out people are going to think,' who's that c.nt thinks he's so important that he can go out when every one else is stuck at home'.
At the very least it will be, 'why isn't he playing his part?' Regardless of the fact that if I go out I'll be further away from people than I would be if I stayed at home.

Difficult to know what to do really.
Last edited by Stephanie on Thu May 14, 2020 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Martin Y
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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by Martin Y » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:16 am

Well I ain't seen it with my own ears yet but Mrs Y tells me Gove was asked if going to allotments was permissible (maintaining separation etc) and he said it sounded sensible. So there's that.

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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by Turdly » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:22 am

Martin Y wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:16 am
Well I ain't seen it with my own ears yet but Mrs Y tells me Gove was asked if going to allotments was permissible (maintaining separation etc) and he said it sounded sensible. So there's that.
We've been wondering that. We don't see many people there, it's easy to maintain distance, it's providing food (albeit with a delay) and exercise so it seems safe enough but some clarification would be good.

In fact here is a link: Gove says allotments are OK
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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by lpm » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:15 am

Agricultural work is OK. I think conservation of SSSI land fits in with this.
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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by FlammableFlower » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:27 am

Martin Y wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:16 am
Well I ain't seen it with my own ears yet but Mrs Y tells me Gove was asked if going to allotments was permissible (maintaining separation etc) and he said it sounded sensible. So there's that.
With the way the rumours were passing about, yesterday about 5 pm I popped up our allotment and got 4 rows of spuds in (2 salad, 1 first early, 1 second early since you asked*), just in case of a lock-down and allotment tending not being allowed. For almost the entirety when there, I'm never closer than 10 metres from someone. Even if they're there, you rarely get to within 2 metres of the people on the neighbouring plots as everyone is just getting on with stuff and you don't need to be that close to chat as it's quiet. So I'm glad that they haven't ruled out going to the allotment.

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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by tenchboy » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:41 pm

Thanks all for your input; much appreciated.
Going by a page on the BBC News website, 'Tradespeople are not on the list of non-essential businesses' so I've got that along with lpm's unverified 'agricultural work OK'.
If gardening falls into a broader 'self employed out of door's group like construction/building work, then it looks like ?Sadiq Khan 'No' ?Another Minister* 'Go'
And allotments 'Go' from Gove.
But generally it seems I was being over cautious: I was giving priority to the 'only if essential' clause but it seems, generally, that people are going with the 'if you can't work from home clause'.

So I went up and looked at m'dahlias, took the screens off and put up some shading and gave them a drop of water.
I lied: thers 60 dozen! 720: sh'd be enough eh?

Stay safe.
TB

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tenchboy
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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by tenchboy » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:12 pm

Possible source of the confusion lies here.
Stay at home except for work where this absolutely cannot be done from home.
Gets re-written as
Stay at home except for going to work when necessary.
Becoming Stay at home except for necessary - meaning important - work
CO19.GOVUK.png
CO19.GOVUK.png (21.2 KiB) Viewed 1246 times
ETA added for completeness
Ab Nec.png
Ab Nec.png (21.14 KiB) Viewed 1245 times
Also, the moment the text came through saying STAY AT HOME,
The BBC were saying that they were saying go to work if you can't work from home
Hancock says so.png
Hancock says so.png (15 KiB) Viewed 1246 times
Confused? You won't be, not after the next episode of...

Anyway the long tall & short of it is day off sitting in the sunshine today, back at it tomow.

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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by Gentleman Jim » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:01 pm

How often do I take that chance and visit my 92yo, dementia suffering, mother?
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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:27 pm

I think the important thing to remember is that CO19 spreads by personal contact (including indirect contact). It doesn't sound like tenchboy is putting anyone at risk by looking after the plants and SSSI site, so I think it's fine.

My mum manages a sheltered housing scheme, mainly for older folks but some are younger with health problems. She's been self-isolating for a couple of weeks already, but the umbrella company's instructions have simply been to follow government advice, and that therefore gardeners, window cleaners, decorators etc should continue to turn up. My mum thinks that's an unnecessary risk and is asking them to stay away, and I'm inclined to agree with her - the paths can stay unweeded and windows can get a bit dirty if the alternative is risking infecting vulnerable people. They do all have their own self-contained apartments with little communal area, but nevertheless a community of 20 or so vulnerable people seems exactly like the kind of place that should be taking extra precautions. What do you think, hivemind?
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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by Millennie Al » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:01 am

It seems to me that the known methods of acquiring Covid-19 are by breathing in virions or by touching a contaminated item and then depositing virions in eyes, nose, or mouth. The former makes it risky to be in an enclosed space with (or soon after) someone who is infectious, so suggests that decorators are a bad idea (unless the resident is temporarily moving out during the decoration). Similarly, window cleaners who clean the inside of windows - though that's presumably much faster that decorating. Cleaning the outside of windows (and not entering the building to get water, use the loo etc) or gardening outdoors should be reasonably safe, though there's still the risk that someone doing these activities could contaminate something (e.g. a door handle, doorbell, railing) that a resident might later touch. While it is currently very uncertain, unless services are essential (e.g. paths overgrown to the extent that they are dangerous), my best guess is that works should be deferred until workers are unlikely to be infectious (either the pandemic has died down or individuals have been tested).

For some activities, it's not the activity that matters. For example, it should be pretty safe to work on an allotment if you walk, cycle, or drive yourself there, but risky if you take public transport. And don't forget that very simple things might be significant - such as passing through a gate that you have to grab and pull. I presume that eventually we will learn exectly what level of risk is presented by each activity, but it's best to be paranoid while there are few treatment options and medical facilites are overwhelmed.
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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by Blackcountryboy » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:53 am

Couldn't working in your allotment be seen as exercise , apermited activity.

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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by EllyCat » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:16 pm

Just received a spam from my mum’s friend (as you do) about all the things you can do to combat COVID, like drinking hot drinks (but not cold ones) and sunbathing.

My dilemma is whether I reply politely saying “I very much doubt that came from a hospital” or do I debunk point-by-point the utter bollocks contained therein...with the bonus that I probably won’t receive any more of these emails!

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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by Lew Dolby » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:44 pm

Blackcountryboy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:53 am
Couldn't working in your allotment be seen as exercise , apermited activity.
Isn't there something in the small-print about only being out for a max of 30 minutes for exercise ??

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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by Martin Y » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:19 pm

Lew Dolby wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:44 pm
Blackcountryboy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:53 am
Couldn't working in your allotment be seen as exercise , apermited activity.
Isn't there something in the small-print about only being out for a max of 30 minutes for exercise ??
30 minutes would be enough time to walk to our allotment, decide not to grasp the handle on the gate and walk home again.

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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by Gentleman Jim » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:20 pm

Retire to the shed* for an hour, then do another half hour gardening?



*Dont all allotment holders have sheds? ;)
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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by Blackcountryboy » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:42 pm

Lew Dolby wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:44 pm
Blackcountryboy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:53 am
Couldn't working in your allotment be seen as exercise , apermited activity.
Isn't there something in the small-print about only being out for a max of 30 minutes for exercise ??
There is no set limit, Gove said your run or walk should be the same as usual.

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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by Hunting Dog » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:29 pm

Just up on the Grauniad live news thingy
18m ago 15:08

Greater Manchester police have confirmed that members of the public are allowed to travel to and from allotments as part of their daily exercise set out by the government.

The clarification comes after a BBC Radio Manchester listener asked the chief constable, Ian Hopkins, if they could still tend to theirs.
Edited to correct - that was Graun not BBC

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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:23 pm

Millennie Al wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:01 am
It seems to me that the known methods of acquiring Covid-19 are by breathing in virions or by touching a contaminated item and then depositing virions in eyes, nose, or mouth. The former makes it risky to be in an enclosed space with (or soon after) someone who is infectious, so suggests that decorators are a bad idea (unless the resident is temporarily moving out during the decoration). Similarly, window cleaners who clean the inside of windows - though that's presumably much faster that decorating. Cleaning the outside of windows (and not entering the building to get water, use the loo etc) or gardening outdoors should be reasonably safe, though there's still the risk that someone doing these activities could contaminate something (e.g. a door handle, doorbell, railing) that a resident might later touch. While it is currently very uncertain, unless services are essential (e.g. paths overgrown to the extent that they are dangerous), my best guess is that works should be deferred until workers are unlikely to be infectious (either the pandemic has died down or individuals have been tested).
Thanks - pretty much my thoughts too.
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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:35 am

EllyCat wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:16 pm
Just received a spam from my mum’s friend (as you do) about all the things you can do to combat COVID, like drinking hot drinks (but not cold ones) and sunbathing.

My dilemma is whether I reply politely saying “I very much doubt that came from a hospital” or do I debunk point-by-point the utter bollocks contained therein...with the bonus that I probably won’t receive any more of these emails!
Yes, it’s difficult to know what to do if the advice is bonkers but appears to be harmless. I wonder who makes it all up in the first place.

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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by greyspoke » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:48 am

Certain acts of pruning remain to be done at greyspoke towers, mainly the ones required to keep various climbing plants (I'm looking at you wisteria) from entering the roof space and so on. I guess high ladder work should be avoided though.

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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by Gentleman Jim » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:19 pm

Are places like B&Q allowed to open
I have finally cleared all the damn brambles but need something like Brushwood Killer to stop it coming back
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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by FlammableFlower » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:30 pm

Gentleman Jim wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:19 pm
Are places like B&Q allowed to open
I have finally cleared all the damn brambles but need something like Brushwood Killer to stop it coming back
I think B&Q has closed it's doors.

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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by Gentleman Jim » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:35 pm

FlammableFlower wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:30 pm
Gentleman Jim wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:19 pm
Are places like B&Q allowed to open
I have finally cleared all the damn brambles but need something like Brushwood Killer to stop it coming back
I think B&Q has closed it's doors.

Oh well. I guess it's dose after dose of glyphosate then
Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.

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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by Gfamily » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:21 pm

FlammableFlower wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:30 pm
Gentleman Jim wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:19 pm
Are places like B&Q allowed to open
I have finally cleared all the damn brambles but need something like Brushwood Killer to stop it coming back
I think B&Q has closed it's doors.
My favourite B&Q Joke...
Is there a B&Q in Birkenhead?

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Re: CO19 Dilemmas

Post by Iron Magpie » Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:26 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:35 am
EllyCat wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:16 pm
Just received a spam from my mum’s friend (as you do) about all the things you can do to combat COVID, like drinking hot drinks (but not cold ones) and sunbathing.

My dilemma is whether I reply politely saying “I very much doubt that came from a hospital” or do I debunk point-by-point the utter bollocks contained therein...with the bonus that I probably won’t receive any more of these emails!
Yes, it’s difficult to know what to do if the advice is bonkers but appears to be harmless. I wonder who makes it all up in the first place.
The (possibly) most ridiculous thing I've read is that this virus cannot survive temps of more than 27C....When I asked how any human ever got infected with a normal body temp of 37C I just got tumbleweed....I don't know who makes up this sh.t. probably someone that is trying to work out just how ludicrous something has to be before people won't fall for it.

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