Covid-19 the unlockdown

Covid-19 discussion, bring your own statistics
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Gfamily
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by Gfamily » Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:23 pm

mediocrity511 wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:53 am
A friend who works in a care home is being tested weekly. Whether this is all care homes or because hers had an outbreak, I don't know. But there are certainly some places that are.
Yes, someone else on the pub's FB thread was saying it was a symptomless care home worker that was detected, but it seems likely that some people who were positive would have been ignored that and gone out anyway.
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by bagpuss » Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:30 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:23 pm
mediocrity511 wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:53 am
A friend who works in a care home is being tested weekly. Whether this is all care homes or because hers had an outbreak, I don't know. But there are certainly some places that are.
Yes, someone else on the pub's FB thread was saying it was a symptomless care home worker that was detected, but it seems likely that some people who were positive would have been ignored that and gone out anyway.
That would make a lot of sense, although there are at least 3 pubs where this has happened so don't know if the same will be true of them all.

I'm sure that many people will have ignored symptoms and gone anyway but I'm not sure how many of them would then have promptly got a test and contacted the pub with a positive result? Even if they suddenly decided to be a responsible citizen, nothing I've heard would suggest you could go from ignoring symptoms on Saturday to having had a positive result by Monday - as if you were ignoring symptoms on Saturday, you're unlikely to have even thought about getting a test till Sunday, then you'd have to get one and then wait for the result.

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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by shpalman » Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:02 pm

My swing-related WhatsApp groups are obviously all about tHe dIsCoS aND dAnCE hALLs aRe oPeN!!!!11!!one!!

... without actually looking up the text of the rules in Lombardy which says that yes, you can go on the dance floor, as long as it's outside and you stay 2 metres away from anyone else.

bUt cOnTaCT sPoRTs aRe aLLowEd aNd dAnCINg iS a sPoRT!!!!

but it's not is it? Not in this context, when you aren't members of FIDS and haven't got a medical certificate for competitive sports and aren't part of the dance sport Italy Cup and regional/national competition circuit but rather just want to go out social dancing. The rule about contact sports just allows club training and competitions behind closed doors.

bUt in eMILIa tHeY'RE aLLowED to pArTNer dAnCE!!!

Not really they aren't, unless they're married couples at strictly controlled private events.

So swing dancing isn't allowed yet, sit the f.ck down.
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by headshot » Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:15 pm

Everyone I know in the UK and America is just accepting that partnered social dancing won't be possible until there's a vaccine or some sort of reliable therapeutic.

Solo Jazz might be a thing, with adequate social distancing.

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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by Hunting Dog » Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:25 pm

bagpuss wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:25 am
And in news no-one will be surprised to hear, several pubs have already had to close because people who were in there over the weekend have since tested positive for SARS-CoV-2.

Given pubs didn't open till late morning on Saturday, it takes time to get tested and a result to be obtained, and it is now only Tuesday morning so presumably for these to have hit the news already, at least some of them must have come to light yesterday (ie Monday), surely some of these people must already have had symptoms when they went to the pub? Or is testing happening more quickly than I thought? Is it possible that people didn't experience symptoms till Saturday night/Sunday and have received a positive test result by Monday night?
The Graun now has an article about the Burnham pubs

his quoted description
Wilson had gone for a test before his return to work in a shop in the town. He had no symptoms and no reason to think he might have come into contact with the virus, but was worried he might catch it serving customers. “I thought: I’ll take a test so I’d know if I got it at work,” he says.
- seems a little odd though - can you really just ask for a test on that sort of basis?

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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by mediocrity511 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:28 pm

Hunting Dog wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:25 pm
bagpuss wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:25 am
And in news no-one will be surprised to hear, several pubs have already had to close because people who were in there over the weekend have since tested positive for SARS-CoV-2.

Given pubs didn't open till late morning on Saturday, it takes time to get tested and a result to be obtained, and it is now only Tuesday morning so presumably for these to have hit the news already, at least some of them must have come to light yesterday (ie Monday), surely some of these people must already have had symptoms when they went to the pub? Or is testing happening more quickly than I thought? Is it possible that people didn't experience symptoms till Saturday night/Sunday and have received a positive test result by Monday night?
The Graun now has an article about the Burnham pubs

his quoted description
Wilson had gone for a test before his return to work in a shop in the town. He had no symptoms and no reason to think he might have come into contact with the virus, but was worried he might catch it serving customers. “I thought: I’ll take a test so I’d know if I got it at work,” he says.
- seems a little odd though - can you really just ask for a test on that sort of basis?
I mean it doesn't take much effort to say you've lost your sense of taste and is impossible to verify.

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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by lpm » Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:10 am

The salami unlockdown continues, week by week.

We've moved through cricket to tattoos, gyms coming up, and now museums from August.

In points terms, opening schools fully costs us, say, 20,000 points. Opening indoor pubs 10,000 or whatever. Indoor gyms say 500.

There are things that cost us only 5 or 10 or 20 points, like nail bars or outdoor swimming pools. But there are thousands of these little things.

Wearing masks earns us, say, 5,000 points. We've already spent that gain on the little salami slices, leaving us unable to afford much more important things like opening up the schools.

Meanwhile, case numbers are starting to hint at a ticking upwards. London mainly, where there's definite increases (although from a very low level). Due to the lags in infections, current figures reflect the lockdown state from a couple of weeks ago, i.e. before the 4 July reopenings. It will be infuriating if this builds over the next couple of months - leading to no chance of proper schooling when term starts in early September.

Probably more likely is it builds from September onwards - when the UK returns to indoor life.
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by shpalman » Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:14 am

Lombardy is set to allow non-wearing of masks while outdoors tomorrow.

They will remain mandatory while in confined spaces, probably at least until the end of the month.
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:18 am

Israeli Data Show School Openings Were a Disaster That Wiped Out Lockdown Gains

https://www.thedailybeast.com/israeli-d ... down-gains
Importantly, on May 17 in Israel it appeared the virus not only was under control, but defeated. Israel reported only 10 new cases of COVID-19 in the entire country that day. In the U.S., the debate often is about reopening schools where the disease is not only not in decline, but surging.

On Sunday, for instance, U.S. Education Secretary Betsy DeVos told Chris Wallace on Fox News Sunday, “There’s nothing in the data that suggests that kids being in school is in any way dangerous.” But that is not the case in Israel, where the data from June, the last month for which there is a full set of statistics, appear all too clear.

...

On June 3, two weeks after schools opened, more than 244 students and staff were found to test positive for COVID-19.

According to the education ministry, 2,026 students, teachers, and staff have contracted COVID-19, and 28,147 are in quarantine due to possible contagion.

Just in the first two weeks of July, 393 kindergartens and schools open for summer programs have been shuttered due to cases of COVID-19.
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by Opti » Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:17 am

Meanwhile, mask-wearing is mandatory anywhere outdoors in Andalusia from today. €100 fine. Much more strict than the previous masking directive.
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by lpm » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:21 am

The latest salami unlockdown is Escape Rooms.

They are being reopened for the metaphor.
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by jimbob » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:16 am

lpm wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:21 am
The latest salami unlockdown is Escape Rooms.

They are being reopened for the metaphor.
I saw a mobile escape room near my house on Tuesday.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by shpalman » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:27 am

jimbob wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:16 am
lpm wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:21 am
The latest salami unlockdown is Escape Rooms.

They are being reopened for the metaphor.
I saw a mobile escape room near my house on Tuesday.
Where had it escaped from?
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by Woodchopper » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:18 am

Sustained increase in cases in Spain. Looks to be focused on Catalonia and Aragón, with the Balearic Islands still at a low level. So doesn’t look like it’s been due to tourists.

https://www.mscbs.gob.es/profesionales/ ... VID-19.pdf

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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by shpalman » Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:14 pm

Boris Johnson insists he can avoid second England-wide lockdown presumably in the same way he avoided the first one, by doing what the f.ck he likes after imposing it on everyone else.
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by Woodchopper » Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:04 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:18 am
Sustained increase in cases in Spain. Looks to be focused on Catalonia and Aragón, with the Balearic Islands still at a low level. So doesn’t look like it’s been due to tourists.

https://www.mscbs.gob.es/profesionales/ ... VID-19.pdf
Trend is still up in Spain
https://www.mscbs.gob.es/profesionales/ ... VID-19.pdf

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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by discovolante » Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:15 am

I've got to admit, as things have relaxed a bit and I've seen more people, I'm getting a bit cheesed off with how lax people are being about things like handwashing and er, not practically breathing in each other's faces even if 2m isn't always practical. But it's hard to try and do anything about this without being the annoying handwashing police. I'm sure when we were told that we could have people indoors it wasn't really expected that people would actually always be 2m apart, not touch any hard surfaces etc, but people just don't seem to give a toss. I have always erred on the side of overvigilant to be fair but it's really not that much to ask to at least keep a bottle of hand sanitizer around as a minimum. You can't eliminate risk and I don't expect to but surely just taking a few extra precautions isn't too much to ask?

Sorry this was just a rant really.
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by border_reiver » Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:22 pm

I've been to Tesco today and came back wanting to annihilate all of humanity. There was no queue and it wasn't actually very busy. I wore my mask and about 1 in 3 of the other customers did. Absolutely no one was taking the slightest notice of distancing. People were dithering endlessly over which particular tin of kidney beans to buy. Kids were milling about in Brownian motion. I resorted to using my trolley as a shield, swinging it round at people when they came too close. Old ladies who are presumably more vulnerable than me were bimbling around oblivious of anyone else.
I thought I was being paranoid, but as I was paying there was a tannoy announcement "can we please remind customers to keep 2 metres apart in the store".
It was the most stressful shop I've done since March.
It feels like everyone's given up bothering.

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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by Sciolus » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:15 pm

Yeah, and the "only one person" rule has died a death. Supermarkets are for family outings again.

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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by JQH » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:30 pm

My local Sainsbury's was ok.
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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by Trinucleus » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:33 pm

We had a meeting yesterday to discuss reopening our village hall. We mostly stayed a bit apart, though the chair opened the packet of biscuits with his teeth.

We rejected the request to book in a 90 year old's birthday party for 60 family members from across the country.

We rejected a school's request to host a leavers party for 60 children and 30 adults.

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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by OffTheRock » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:49 pm

border_reiver wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:22 pm
I've been to Tesco today and came back wanting to annihilate all of humanity. There was no queue and it wasn't actually very busy. I wore my mask and about 1 in 3 of the other customers did. Absolutely no one was taking the slightest notice of distancing. People were dithering endlessly over which particular tin of kidney beans to buy. Kids were milling about in Brownian motion. I resorted to using my trolley as a shield, swinging it round at people when they came too close. Old ladies who are presumably more vulnerable than me were bimbling around oblivious of anyone else.
I thought I was being paranoid, but as I was paying there was a tannoy announcement "can we please remind customers to keep 2 metres apart in the store".
It was the most stressful shop I've done since March.
It feels like everyone's given up bothering.

It’s got a lot worse since they removed the direction arrows the other week. Now it’s a free for all.

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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by raven » Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:39 pm

Several couples shopping together in my local supermarket last Saturday, and I don't know if wearing a mask makes you seem more safe to approach or what, but at least three women came right up and leant over me/the trolley to grab something. So, yeah. Everyone seems to be getting a bit more relaxed.

Anyhoo... Numbers of local cases. This would seem like useful information for people to have so they can make decisions on what level of risk they're comfortable with, right? So I was a bit frustrated that wasn't easily available, but now I know where to find the PHE weekly reports I thought, that's good, that'll be pretty reliable data....

Then today, BBC are reporting here that Blackburn has 82.6 cases per 100,000 in the week to 17th July, and thus are potentially worse off than Leicester.

Yet PHE's Weekly Report here which covers 6-12th July (but sometimes to the 14th too apparently), shows Blackburn at 47 per 100,000 for week 28, up from 30ish the previous week.

So yikes, that's a big rise in maybe 5 days according to the BBC story.

ETA: Oh yeah. I can see that increase if I download the csv file from the gov.uk page and look at the figures. A bunch of cases came in on the 15th/16th. That makes sense now.
Last edited by raven on Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by bolo » Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:39 pm

Trinucleus wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:33 pm
We had a meeting yesterday to discuss reopening our village hall. We mostly stayed a bit apart, though the chair opened the packet of biscuits with his teeth.

We rejected the request to book in a 90 year old's birthday party for 60 family members from across the country.

We rejected a school's request to host a leavers party for 60 children and 30 adults.
And what exactly was the wording of those rejections?

No?

Hell no?

Hell no are you f.cking insane?

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Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown

Post by Martin Y » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:10 am

OffTheRock wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:49 pm
border_reiver wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:22 pm
I've been to Tesco today and came back wanting to annihilate all of humanity. There was no queue and it wasn't actually very busy. I wore my mask and about 1 in 3 of the other customers did. Absolutely no one was taking the slightest notice of distancing...
It’s got a lot worse since they removed the direction arrows the other week. Now it’s a free for all.
Our Tesco hasn't got that bad except that only about 1 in 10 wore a mask. With just a couple of days before they become mandatory, I struggled to imagine what people were thinking: do masks only start helping when they become mandatory?

OTOH, Tesco is almost the only shop I've entered since lockdown and I have never seen masks displayed for sale there. So there is the matter of where people would get them. Doubtless you can find them if you actively search but a lot of people won't.

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