Covid phone tracking

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed May 20, 2020 3:22 pm

tom p wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 3:16 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 2:57 pm
Here's hoping. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some difference between your employer and a shady bargain-basement contractor like Serco though.
well yes.
I was going to reply to your previous post that *this* isn't what raises questions about the systems they are going to use; the fact that it's SERCO raises such questions!
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Gfamily
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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by Gfamily » Wed May 20, 2020 3:56 pm

tom p wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 2:29 pm
headshot wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 12:55 pm
They should be using a secure email distribution platform. BCC will result in a ton of those email going to spam.

I'd be hammering them with GDPR right now...
Big f.cking deal. 300 people who will be working together will have each others' email addresses now.
It's the most pathetically tiny thing ever.
But the system that allowed that, also allowed this (when sending out just a newsletter)

Highly sensitive medical information exposed and a £180,000 fine.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by tom p » Wed May 20, 2020 10:04 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 3:56 pm
tom p wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 2:29 pm
headshot wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 12:55 pm
They should be using a secure email distribution platform. BCC will result in a ton of those email going to spam.

I'd be hammering them with GDPR right now...
Big f.cking deal. 300 people who will be working together will have each others' email addresses now.
It's the most pathetically tiny thing ever.
But the system that allowed that, also allowed this (when sending out just a newsletter)

Highly sensitive medical information exposed and a £180,000 fine.
Unless I missed something, 56 dean st is not operated by serco, so no, it didn't. A different system did. Or are you positing that all computers are part of the same system?

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Gfamily
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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by Gfamily » Wed May 20, 2020 10:27 pm

tom p wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 10:04 pm
Gfamily wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 3:56 pm
tom p wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 2:29 pm

Big f.cking deal. 300 people who will be working together will have each others' email addresses now.
It's the most pathetically tiny thing ever.
But the system that allowed that, also allowed this (when sending out just a newsletter)

Highly sensitive medical information exposed and a £180,000 fine.
Unless I missed something, 56 dean st is not operated by serco, so no, it didn't. A different system did. Or are you positing that all computers are part of the same system?
Gfamily wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:55 am

Any sensible email system should be configurable to automatically flag a "Should you be sending these as BCC rather than CC ?" for any new email that has more than 'n' people 'CC'd.

And it require more than a simple "click' to send regardless.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by shpalman » Thu May 21, 2020 9:10 am

molto tricky

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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by tom p » Thu May 21, 2020 2:54 pm

tom p wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 10:04 pm
Gfamily wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 3:56 pm


But the system that allowed that, also allowed this (when sending out just a newsletter)

Highly sensitive medical information exposed and a £180,000 fine.
Unless I missed something, 56 dean st is not operated by serco, so no, it didn't. A different system did. Or are you positing that all computers are part of the same system?
Gfamily wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 10:27 pm
Gfamily wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:55 am

Any sensible email system should be configurable to automatically flag a "Should you be sending these as BCC rather than CC ?" for any new email that has more than 'n' people 'CC'd.

And it require more than a simple "click' to send regardless.
How do you know they use the same email system? Aside from it almost certainly being Outlook?

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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by shpalman » Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:15 pm

I just downloaded and setup the Italian covid-tracking app, "Immuni". It's only live in four regions so far though.

How are you getting on with this in the world-beating UK?
molto tricky

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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by lpm » Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:50 pm

The UK is a bit behind. Currently using Ceefax for information, but the Isle of Wight is trialing mobile phones that play snake.
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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by Tessa K » Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:10 pm

lpm wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:50 pm
The UK is a bit behind. Currently using Ceefax for information, but the Isle of Wight is trialing mobile phones that play snake.
The latest plan announced today is to use carrier pigeons with tiny Union Jacks attached to their legs.

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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by FlammableFlower » Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:58 pm

All of these seem perfectly plausible given our governments current abilities... :shock:

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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by Squeak » Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:40 pm

I meant to mention here the other day that Australia has successfully used its app to trace a single additional contact that they wouldn't have found otherwise. It's been running for a month and downloaded by a quarter of the population.

I can't remember when I last heard a government spokesperson encourage us to download it, which is a slight change of messaging, given that they originally made the lifting of restrictions contingent on good uptake of the app (with a target of 40%).

In good news, Apple users can now leave it running when they lock their phones, which makes it rather more practical then it was.

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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by Gentleman Jim » Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:43 am

lpm wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:50 pm
The UK is a bit behind. Currently using Ceefax for information, but the Isle of Wight is trialing mobile phones that play snake that newfangled semaphore system.
That's better for IoW
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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by headshot » Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:07 am

shpalman wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 9:10 am
3blue1brown on contact tracing apps
That's good, but the UK isn't proposing that sort of app is it?

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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by murmur » Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:19 am

Tessa K wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:10 pm
lpm wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:50 pm
The UK is a bit behind. Currently using Ceefax for information, but the Isle of Wight is trialing mobile phones that play snake.
The latest plan announced today is to use carrier pigeons with tiny Union Jacks attached to their legs.
Not much use round here: our resident sparrowhawks will have them! (Yes, the local ones do regularly take pigeons - makes a right mess of our back garden.)
It's so much more attractive inside the moral kiosk

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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by Tessa K » Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:37 am

murmur wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:19 am
Tessa K wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:10 pm
lpm wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:50 pm
The UK is a bit behind. Currently using Ceefax for information, but the Isle of Wight is trialing mobile phones that play snake.
The latest plan announced today is to use carrier pigeons with tiny Union Jacks attached to their legs.
Not much use round here: our resident sparrowhawks will have them! (Yes, the local ones do regularly take pigeons - makes a right mess of our back garden.)
Yes, that is a flaw in the plan but it was devised by Cummings who states only the number of pigeons that have been sent out.

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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by shpalman » Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:52 am

headshot wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:07 am
shpalman wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 9:10 am
3blue1brown on contact tracing apps
That's good, but the UK isn't proposing that sort of app is it?
What went wrong with the UK's app anyway?
molto tricky

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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by lpm » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:00 pm

The govt insisted the app used imperial instead of metric, the kids doing the programming didn't have a clue what 2 yards distancing was, and it was set up to detect contact only if a phone was within 2 inches.
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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by headshot » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:00 pm

shpalman wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:52 am
headshot wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:07 am
shpalman wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 9:10 am
3blue1brown on contact tracing apps
That's good, but the UK isn't proposing that sort of app is it?
What went wrong with the UK's app anyway?
Didn't work on Apple phones. I suspect it'll get to the point where they go with a decentralised version that's actually supported by Apple and Google.

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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by headshot » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:03 pm


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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by shpalman » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:42 pm

headshot wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:03 pm
More info on the app: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/nhs-cov ... ct-tracing
So the UK is proposing that sort of app, it just isn't ready yet.

There's no mention in that newly-updated wired article of the issue with the app not working in the background on Apple devices (the Italian app requires iOS 13.5, which I think includes an update which allows this to work). Frankly I'm surprised that on Android the Italian app (which has been installed more than 500,000 times so far) isn't running in the notification bar. (It didn't ask for any access to location or anything on install.)

The Italian App requires Android 6, which is more than four years old, although it apparently needs a rather recent version of Google Play Services (which means Huawei users currently cannot install it).
molto tricky

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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by headshot » Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:22 pm

shpalman wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:42 pm
headshot wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:03 pm
More info on the app: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/nhs-cov ... ct-tracing
So the UK is proposing that sort of app, it just isn't ready yet.

There's no mention in that newly-updated wired article of the issue with the app not working in the background on Apple devices (the Italian app requires iOS 13.5, which I think includes an update which allows this to work). Frankly I'm surprised that on Android the Italian app (which has been installed more than 500,000 times so far) isn't running in the notification bar. (It didn't ask for any access to location or anything on install.)

The Italian App requires Android 6, which is more than four years old, although it apparently needs a rather recent version of Google Play Services (which means Huawei users currently cannot install it).
From what I've read, the UK is proposing a centralised app that will request access to all your contacts etc.

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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by bob sterman » Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:42 pm

headshot wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:22 pm
From what I've read, the UK is proposing a centralised app that will request access to all your contacts etc.
That will go down well!

Passing on contact information for people you've actually had physical contact with is one thing. That is something quite different.

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Gentleman Jim
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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by Gentleman Jim » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:00 pm

bob sterman wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:42 pm
headshot wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:22 pm
From what I've read, the UK is proposing a centralised app that will request access to all your contacts etc.
That will go down well!

Passing on contact information for people you've actually had physical contact with is one thing. That is something quite different.
Boris's list of contacts could be interesting
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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:01 pm

bob sterman wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:42 pm
headshot wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:22 pm
From what I've read, the UK is proposing a centralised app that will request access to all your contacts etc.
That will go down well!

Passing on contact information for people you've actually had physical contact with is one thing. That is something quite different.
At least on Android, an app can only request access to all your contacts, or none of them. It doesn't necessarily mean that they'll all be sent into a central database. The alternative would require people to manually type or copy-paste contact details accurately.
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Re: Covid phone tracking

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:02 pm

Is the Google-Apple app working yet?

If so, why is anyone developing their own?
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