Impact on Universities

Covid-19 discussion, bring your own statistics
Post Reply
FlammableFlower
Dorkwood
Posts: 1087
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:22 pm

Re: Impact on Universities

Post by FlammableFlower » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:06 pm

Turdly wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:48 pm
I'm waiting for info from senior management at the moment.

The move to online exams meant we had control over the timetable so we had planned to have level 2 in labs from 18th Jan (no exams) and levels 1, 3 and 4 back in labs from 25th Jan. Realistically, we are now looking at mid-Feb at the earliest (as per official guidelines) but I'd be surprised if it is this side of the Easter holidays.

I'm expecting that UG projects will now go remote which means more planning/design rather than doing for the majority.

The non-lab teaching that was F2F was L1 tutorials and that was abandoned long ago due to more of them self-isolating than attending so, apart from possibly needing to bring it forward rather rapidly, online is not much of an issue.
Trying to work out if this in the gov guidelines (cheers for the link, I could find sod all on the gov pages last night that about unis and returning that hadn't been posted by them just before Christmas):
Courses which require Professional, Statutory and Regulatory Body (PSRB) assessments and or mandatory activity which is scheduled for January and which cannot be rescheduled (your university will notify you if this applies to you).
Covers Chemistry lab hours...?

User avatar
Turdly
Clardic Fug
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:07 pm
Location: High Peak/Sheffield

Re: Impact on Universities

Post by Turdly » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:34 pm

FlammableFlower wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:06 pm
Turdly wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:48 pm
I'm waiting for info from senior management at the moment.

The move to online exams meant we had control over the timetable so we had planned to have level 2 in labs from 18th Jan (no exams) and levels 1, 3 and 4 back in labs from 25th Jan. Realistically, we are now looking at mid-Feb at the earliest (as per official guidelines) but I'd be surprised if it is this side of the Easter holidays.

I'm expecting that UG projects will now go remote which means more planning/design rather than doing for the majority.

The non-lab teaching that was F2F was L1 tutorials and that was abandoned long ago due to more of them self-isolating than attending so, apart from possibly needing to bring it forward rather rapidly, online is not much of an issue.
Trying to work out if this in the gov guidelines (cheers for the link, I could find sod all on the gov pages last night that about unis and returning that hadn't been posted by them just before Christmas):
Courses which require Professional, Statutory and Regulatory Body (PSRB) assessments and or mandatory activity which is scheduled for January and which cannot be rescheduled (your university will notify you if this applies to you).
Covers Chemistry lab hours...?
I was hopeful of that as well, particularly as that was what was in the previous guidance. However, I think that will be dependent on individual university management and ours have been pretty good at f.cking up lab teaching for no benefit so far (e.g. the pause in F2F teaching to change the arrangements in lecture theatres that meant we couldn't continue labs that weren't affected by the changes).
briefly Stephanie's favourite user

FlammableFlower
Dorkwood
Posts: 1087
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:22 pm

Re: Impact on Universities

Post by FlammableFlower » Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:53 pm

Well, separate emails from our VC and HoD indicate we'll lose at least the first two weeks of semester. Although Pharmacy Year 3 are allowed back. I think a quick email is required just to check.

FlammableFlower
Dorkwood
Posts: 1087
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:22 pm

Re: Impact on Universities

Post by FlammableFlower » Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:31 pm

Doh, wrong form of professional body!

User avatar
Turdly
Clardic Fug
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:07 pm
Location: High Peak/Sheffield

Re: Impact on Universities

Post by Turdly » Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:42 pm

Yep, confirmed no F2F before 22/02/2021 but we'll plan for no F2F before Easter.
briefly Stephanie's favourite user

User avatar
snoozeofreason
Fuzzable
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:22 pm

Re: Impact on Universities

Post by snoozeofreason » Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:09 pm

FlammableFlower wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:06 pm
Turdly wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:48 pm
I'm waiting for info from senior management at the moment.

The move to online exams meant we had control over the timetable so we had planned to have level 2 in labs from 18th Jan (no exams) and levels 1, 3 and 4 back in labs from 25th Jan. Realistically, we are now looking at mid-Feb at the earliest (as per official guidelines) but I'd be surprised if it is this side of the Easter holidays.

I'm expecting that UG projects will now go remote which means more planning/design rather than doing for the majority.

The non-lab teaching that was F2F was L1 tutorials and that was abandoned long ago due to more of them self-isolating than attending so, apart from possibly needing to bring it forward rather rapidly, online is not much of an issue.
Trying to work out if this in the gov guidelines (cheers for the link, I could find sod all on the gov pages last night that about unis and returning that hadn't been posted by them just before Christmas):
Courses which require Professional, Statutory and Regulatory Body (PSRB) assessments and or mandatory activity which is scheduled for January and which cannot be rescheduled (your university will notify you if this applies to you).
Covers Chemistry lab hours...?
The Office for Students had a more detailed list of of subjects where in-person teaching was to be prioritised. I think it was sent out to students at the end of last year. You will be reassured to know, I am sure, that it includes alternative medicines & therapies, complementary medicines & therapies, chiropractic, and nutrition.
In six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them. The human body was knocked up pretty late on the Friday afternoon, with a deadline looming. How well do you expect it to work?

FlammableFlower
Dorkwood
Posts: 1087
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:22 pm

Re: Impact on Universities

Post by FlammableFlower » Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:07 pm

snoozeofreason wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:09 pm

...[snip]...

The Office for Students had a more detailed list of of subjects where in-person teaching was to be prioritised. I think it was sent out to students at the end of last year. You will be reassured to know, I am sure, that it includes alternative medicines & therapies, complementary medicines & therapies, chiropractic, and nutrition.
:shock: :evil: :shock:

User avatar
snoozeofreason
Fuzzable
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:22 pm

Re: Impact on Universities

Post by snoozeofreason » Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:53 am

FlammableFlower wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:07 pm
snoozeofreason wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:09 pm

...[snip]...

The Office for Students had a more detailed list of of subjects where in-person teaching was to be prioritised. I think it was sent out to students at the end of last year. You will be reassured to know, I am sure, that it includes alternative medicines & therapies, complementary medicines & therapies, chiropractic, and nutrition.
:shock: :evil: :shock:
DfE guidance on return of students is here. The list of subjects prioritised for in-person teaching is at the end of the document called "Students returning to and starting higher education in the Spring term". To be fair, it doesn't say that aromatherapists and Reiki healers will be guaranteed in-person teaching from the start of the semester, but it does seem to imply that they would have precedence over chemists and physicists. I imagine this will raise the blood pressure of a few people on this forum (I'd recommend Hopi ear candles and whale music for that).
In six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them. The human body was knocked up pretty late on the Friday afternoon, with a deadline looming. How well do you expect it to work?

FlammableFlower
Dorkwood
Posts: 1087
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:22 pm

Re: Impact on Universities

Post by FlammableFlower » Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:05 am

Ooo you swine. Yes you're entirely right, practical science subjects are down the priority. We'll just have to suck it up for now - we're currently aiming for June and Sept catch up labs for the 2nd and 1st years respectively. I'm just hoping that we will get back in by March so the final years can get some more work done. I can only say I'm glad we didn't do what some institutions did - boot everything in Semester 1 to Semester 2 as they thought it'd get better after Christmas. Although we're not in as good a position as those unis that have kept to the 3-term system as opposed to 2-semester system as they've got a bit longer at after Easter to get stuff in.

And yes, it does raise my blood pressure to hear the quacks can get in.

User avatar
shpalman
Light of Blast
Posts: 4925
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond

Re: Impact on Universities

Post by shpalman » Sat May 08, 2021 11:55 am

Last week I did four hours of lecturing in person (in addition to the online teaching all last week and on Monday and Tuesday morning).

Well, two hours to half the students (Tuesday afternoon) and then the same two hours to the other half (Thursday morning).

Well, more like 90 minutes twice with the break and the customary "academic 15 minutes" at the beginning and end.

Well, more like about a third of the students given that others in the subgroup could anyway connect to the lecture hall's audio-visual system and follow along from home, and of course there's also an official recording.

This reduced capacity is so that 210 students aren't all crammed into the same lecture hall at once.

Well, ~160-170 students, haven't passed the exam yet rather than the ones who've basically given up but not officially dropped out yet.

Well, 120-130 students, that's how many are actively following, rather than just hoping to keep trying the exam until they get the mark they want.

So anyway 30-40 students in a big lecture hall, that should be enough to maintain decent social distancing.

Of course they are large "flat" classrooms rather than banked halls and of course they all sit together at the front.

I'm assuming the sore throat I have now is from having talked for 8* hours over the past two weeks.
molto tricky

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Light of Blast
Posts: 6390
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Iceland

Re: Impact on Universities

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat May 08, 2021 12:06 pm

Seems like the sort of thing a sensible university would have prevented by taping off alternate desks/rows.

Hope your throat improves soon and is nothing nasty, anyway.
He has the grace of a swan, the wisdom of an owl, and the eye of an eagle—ladies and gentlemen, this man is for the birds!

User avatar
shpalman
Light of Blast
Posts: 4925
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond

Re: Impact on Universities

Post by shpalman » Sat May 08, 2021 12:20 pm

It was certainly the case back in September/October that seats were marked as to which ones to sit in or not sit in, so as to maintain distancing, but for my masters' course I had at most 3 students in the room so it didn't really matter. (The students basically all chose options which had lectures this term, not last term).

Throat seems fine now, I just have a headache and want to take things easy but I don't have a fever or anything. Not as bad as having the AZ vaccine.
molto tricky

User avatar
shpalman
Light of Blast
Posts: 4925
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond

Re: Impact on Universities

Post by shpalman » Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:02 pm

molto tricky

User avatar
bob sterman
Snowbonk
Posts: 583
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:25 pm

Re: Impact on Universities

Post by bob sterman » Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:36 am

Observer maths: 0.1 + 1 + maybe 1 = 3

UK students want tuition fees refunded as they face third year online
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... ear-online

Article claims "Students are facing a third successive year of online learning"

But in the 19/20 academic year most UK universities cancelled in-person teaching and switched to online delivery in mid-March - with students losing about 3 weeks of in-person teaching in most cases.

So really - it's been one year of major disruption so far.

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Light of Blast
Posts: 6390
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Iceland

Re: Impact on Universities

Post by Bird on a Fire » Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:17 pm

Nevertheless it does suggest that students from the 2019 intake will have all three years of their degrees affected - first year exam period, the whole second year and a fair bit of their final year.

I'm not sure that the exact fraction is the important part of the article.

I can understand being miffed at paying £30k to sit in your house watching YouTube, especially when one of the main ways unis compete for customers is on physical facilities. Unfortunately for universities I don't think they've necessarily saved much money either, apart from the ones that have been laying off staff.

The UK's (or is it just England?) world-trailing value for money does look even more sh.t in the current context, though.
He has the grace of a swan, the wisdom of an owl, and the eye of an eagle—ladies and gentlemen, this man is for the birds!

User avatar
Turdly
Clardic Fug
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:07 pm
Location: High Peak/Sheffield

Re: Impact on Universities

Post by Turdly » Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:56 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:17 pm
Nevertheless it does suggest that students from the 2019 intake will have all three years of their degrees affected - first year exam period, the whole second year and a fair bit of their final year.

I'm not sure that the exact fraction is the important part of the article.

I can understand being miffed at paying £30k to sit in your house watching YouTube, especially when one of the main ways unis compete for customers is on physical facilities. Unfortunately for universities I don't think they've necessarily saved much money either, apart from the ones that have been laying off staff.

The UK's (or is it just England?) world-trailing value for money does look even more sh.t in the current context, though.
There was significant strike action in late 2019/early 2020 as well so essentially two years of disruption so far. It certainly hasn't saved us any money in my department. Estates and staffing costs are the same, labs ran so the costs for those were still there and on top of that the university has been spending money on extra IT, software etc. to cope with the demand.

I can understand the student perspective, but fee refunds will kill some course/institutions unless government backed. However, they have been very careful to only offer "guidance" to universities so that they could blame us if we ignored them but don't need to financially support us as we could have stayed open.
briefly Stephanie's favourite user

FlammableFlower
Dorkwood
Posts: 1087
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:22 pm

Re: Impact on Universities

Post by FlammableFlower » Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:01 am

Overlapping somewhat with the Unlockdown thread... but due to the government's 19th July plans, I am severely worried for the start of the next academic year...

User avatar
headshot
Catbabel
Posts: 679
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:40 am

Re: Impact on Universities

Post by headshot » Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:38 pm

So, Frau HS's uni have written to their employees.

From the 19th, social distancing and face masks are no longer mandated, only if individual staff want to wear them.

Hand sanitisation stations and deep cleaning of surfaces will remain.

So, the two things that are known to mitigate transmission are thrown out the window, the two things that are known to have no effect on transmission are being kept.

Post Reply