Impact on Universities

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Gfamily
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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by Gfamily » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:46 pm

sTeamTraen wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:38 pm
jimbob wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:05 pm
Mostly in the halls of residence, which is fairly unsurprising, and even by the standards of 1960's student accommodation is quite grim.
When I was taking my kids either around (to visit pre-application) or "to" their UK university, I was surprised how bad some of the accommodation was (this was 2007-2009). The "typical" room they showed us, presumably to impress us, at Liverpool was horrible, as was the room and entire block that #1 son ended up in at Bath. The entire Kent campus seemed to have "Run away!" subliminally written on every wall.

#1 daughter ended up with a nice enough room at Birmingham, but if she had gone to Liverpool, we would have been looking into the private halls that were mostly built for students of the post-1992 unis like John Moores. When #1 son got to Germany for his Erasmus year he was amazed how big and nice his room was, for half the rent he paid in Bath.
Student accommodation is a bit of a money spinner for developers as they are exempted from the 'social / affordable' housing requirements that would be applicable if the development was for 'residential' purposes.
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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by jimbob » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:38 pm

sTeamTraen wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:38 pm
jimbob wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:05 pm
Mostly in the halls of residence, which is fairly unsurprising, and even by the standards of 1960's student accommodation is quite grim.
When I was taking my kids either around (to visit pre-application) or "to" their UK university, I was surprised how bad some of the accommodation was (this was 2007-2009). The "typical" room they showed us, presumably to impress us, at Liverpool was horrible, as was the room and entire block that #1 son ended up in at Bath. The entire Kent campus seemed to have "Run away!" subliminally written on every wall.

#1 daughter ended up with a nice enough room at Birmingham, but if she had gone to Liverpool, we would have been looking into the private halls that were mostly built for students of the post-1992 unis like John Moores. When #1 son got to Germany for his Erasmus year he was amazed how big and nice his room was, for half the rent he paid in Bath.
The joke my son told me last year was that it was designed by someone who had previously only designed prisons. I can see how the student village would have looked nice as an architect's model in the 60s, but...

It did instantly take me back to my first year at college which was built in 1967, the only difference being an extra 30 years aging.

The architecture was quite different in many ways, but also very similar.
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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:49 pm

When I studied in Poitiers I got a nice studio flat with a view of the river for €250/month, with an added discount once my CAF application was approved.

OTOH here in Portugal most students seem to live with their parents, or else rent rooms in shady HMOs. They're still hella cheap compared with UK prices, outside of central Lisbon and Porto anyway.
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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by discovolante » Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:17 am

sTeamTraen wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:38 pm
jimbob wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:05 pm
Mostly in the halls of residence, which is fairly unsurprising, and even by the standards of 1960's student accommodation is quite grim.
When I was taking my kids either around (to visit pre-application) or "to" their UK university, I was surprised how bad some of the accommodation was (this was 2007-2009). The "typical" room they showed us, presumably to impress us, at Liverpool was horrible, as was the room and entire block that #1 son ended up in at Bath. The entire Kent campus seemed to have "Run away!" subliminally written on every wall.

#1 daughter ended up with a nice enough room at Birmingham, but if she had gone to Liverpool, we would have been looking into the private halls that were mostly built for students of the post-1992 unis like John Moores. When #1 son got to Germany for his Erasmus year he was amazed how big and nice his room was, for half the rent he paid in Bath.
I was at liverpool 2004-2007, first year in the 'posh' halls where it was one bathroom between two rooms. It was basic but fine except there was no shower. Others were definitely less good and the houses I lived in after that were less desirable in certain ways. Your kids missed out.

But anyway yes, halls generally, sharing bathrooms - not nice at all and I feel for all parents with kids at uni right now, it must be worrying. One of SvL's friends works at Dundee uni and I think he has been less than impressed with the situation.
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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by Turdly » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:17 am

sTeamTraen wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:38 pm
jimbob wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:05 pm
Mostly in the halls of residence, which is fairly unsurprising, and even by the standards of 1960's student accommodation is quite grim.
When I was taking my kids either around (to visit pre-application) or "to" their UK university, I was surprised how bad some of the accommodation was (this was 2007-2009). The "typical" room they showed us, presumably to impress us, at Liverpool was horrible, as was the room and entire block that #1 son ended up in at Bath. The entire Kent campus seemed to have "Run away!" subliminally written on every wall.

#1 daughter ended up with a nice enough room at Birmingham, but if she had gone to Liverpool, we would have been looking into the private halls that were mostly built for students of the post-1992 unis like John Moores. When #1 son got to Germany for his Erasmus year he was amazed how big and nice his room was, for half the rent he paid in Bath.
Unis have invested heavily in accommodation over the last ~10 years as it is a seen as a good way of recruiting students. I have it on good authority that Liverpool chemistry department had a significant boost in applications/admissions when they built new accommodation about 50 yards from the department.
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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by bob sterman » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:37 am

Turdly wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:17 am
Unis have invested heavily in accommodation over the last ~10 years as it is a seen as a good way of recruiting students.
Often funded with loans - so if students aren't on campus paying for accommodation then some universities could be in rather serious trouble.

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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:19 am

And, of course, those students' were also going to be funded by loans from the government.

Makes a whole lot more sense than the government just directly investing in universities, and it's a lot more robust to the kinds of black swan systemic shocks we know will be increasingly common in the coming decades.
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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by sTeamTraen » Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:43 pm

discovolante wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:17 am
But anyway yes, halls generally, sharing bathrooms - not nice at all and I feel for all parents with kids at uni right now, it must be worrying. One of SvL's friends works at Dundee uni and I think he has been less than impressed with the situation.
#1 daughter had a private shower/loo in Birmingham. Of course you usually have shared bathrooms in the second and subsequent years when you move out into a house, but by then you're with your friends.

Birmingham, somewhat to my surprise after seeing Bath and #1 cousin in Exeter, has plenty of quite nice shared house accommodation near the campus. The oversupply keeps rents reasonable, and daughter and friends had the nicest landlady in the world in their second year.
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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by Turdly » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:14 pm

In my first year of uni I spent two terms on a corridor with one shower and two toilets between 18 of us. There was a bath on the floor below. In the third term, I was in a different block with a slightly better body/shower ratio but I had to share a room (which was the reason for moving us between blocks, so that you weren't in a twin room all year).

Kids don't know they're born these days ;) .
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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by jimbob » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:46 pm

Turdly wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:14 pm
In my first year of uni I spent two terms on a corridor with one shower and two toilets between 18 of us. There was a bath on the floor below. In the third term, I was in a different block with a slightly better body/shower ratio but I had to share a room (which was the reason for moving us between blocks, so that you weren't in a twin room all year).

Kids don't know they're born these days ;) .
Ha, that sounds like my old college, which was unusual for Durham
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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by FlammableFlower » Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:16 pm

sTeamTraen wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:38 pm
jimbob wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:05 pm
Mostly in the halls of residence, which is fairly unsurprising, and even by the standards of 1960's student accommodation is quite grim.
When I was taking my kids either around (to visit pre-application) or "to" their UK university, I was surprised how bad some of the accommodation was (this was 2007-2009). The "typical" room they showed us, presumably to impress us, at Liverpool was horrible, as was the room and entire block that #1 son ended up in at Bath. The entire Kent campus seemed to have "Run away!" subliminally written on every wall.

#1 daughter ended up with a nice enough room at Birmingham, but if she had gone to Liverpool, we would have been looking into the private halls that were mostly built for students of the post-1992 unis like John Moores. When #1 son got to Germany for his Erasmus year he was amazed how big and nice his room was, for half the rent he paid in Bath.
Was #1 son in Eastwood accommodation by any chance? All accommodation has en suite now, excepting Eastwood and Westwood (although when I was a student there Westwood had en suites, but they actually took them out - so what was my room became a shower block) - those two lots are the legacy original 60s accommodation that they've attempted (frequently badly) to keep going.

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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by Turdly » Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:56 pm

jimbob wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:46 pm
Turdly wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:14 pm
In my first year of uni I spent two terms on a corridor with one shower and two toilets between 18 of us. There was a bath on the floor below. In the third term, I was in a different block with a slightly better body/shower ratio but I had to share a room (which was the reason for moving us between blocks, so that you weren't in a twin room all year).

Kids don't know they're born these days ;) .
Ha, that sounds like my old college, which was unusual for Durham
Terms 1 and 2 were Middleton block at Van Mildert, term 3 was either Tyne or Wear block at the same.
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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by jimbob » Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:24 pm

Turdly wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:56 pm
jimbob wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:46 pm
Turdly wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:14 pm
In my first year of uni I spent two terms on a corridor with one shower and two toilets between 18 of us. There was a bath on the floor below. In the third term, I was in a different block with a slightly better body/shower ratio but I had to share a room (which was the reason for moving us between blocks, so that you weren't in a twin room all year).

Kids don't know they're born these days ;) .
Ha, that sounds like my old college, which was unusual for Durham
Terms 1 and 2 were Middleton block at Van Mildert, term 3 was either Tyne or Wear block at the same.
Ha, I was Tees (I think) then Wear
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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by sTeamTraen » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:46 pm

FlammableFlower wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:16 pm
Was #1 son in Eastwood accommodation by any chance?
That rings a bell, yes.
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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by Gfamily » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:51 pm

Anyone else here that was in the UCL 97-101 Gower Street accomodation?
First and third years in (back in the days when students could get 2 years in college accomodation)
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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by bob sterman » Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:20 am

Frankie Boyle has described the impact on students - last few minutes of his latest show [NSFW!!!]...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m ... -episode-5

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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by jimbob » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:50 pm

Aberdeen, where my son is:

Day Positive Cases Self-isolating*
Monday 28 September 44 -
Tuesday 29 September 62 -
Wednesday 30 September 82 215
Thursday 1 October 99 230
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by discovolante » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:56 pm

jimbob wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:50 pm
Aberdeen, where my son is:

Day Positive Cases Self-isolating*
Monday 28 September 44 -
Tuesday 29 September 62 -
Wednesday 30 September 82 215
Thursday 1 October 99 230
I really hope your son's OK jimbob.
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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by jimbob » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:57 pm

discovolante wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:56 pm
jimbob wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:50 pm
Aberdeen, where my son is:

Day Positive Cases Self-isolating*
Monday 28 September 44 -
Tuesday 29 September 62 -
Wednesday 30 September 82 215
Thursday 1 October 99 230
I really hope your son's OK jimbob.
Yes it's worrying. At least he's a second year, so not in halls. But still
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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by jimbob » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:14 pm

https://www.northumbria.ac.uk/covid19/l ... nformation
As of Friday 2 October, we can confirm that we are aware of 770 Northumbria University students who have tested positive for Covid-19 of whom 78 are symptomatic. These students are all now self-isolating. Their flatmates and any close contacts are also self-isolating for 14 days in line with government guidance, and have been advised to contact NHS119 to book a test as soon as possible should symptoms appear.


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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by discovolante » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:37 pm

jimbob wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:14 pm
https://www.northumbria.ac.uk/covid19/l ... nformation
As of Friday 2 October, we can confirm that we are aware of 770 Northumbria University students who have tested positive for Covid-19 of whom 78 are symptomatic. These students are all now self-isolating. Their flatmates and any close contacts are also self-isolating for 14 days in line with government guidance, and have been advised to contact NHS119 to book a test as soon as possible should symptoms appear.
More than a tenth of total cases. That's appalling, even if there has been proportionately much more testing overall at Northumbria than the rest of the country.
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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by raven » Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:11 pm

discovolante wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:17 am
I was at liverpool 2004-2007, first year in the 'posh' halls where it was one bathroom between two rooms. It was basic but fine except there was no shower. Others were definitely less good and the houses I lived in after that were less desirable in certain ways. Your kids missed out.

But anyway yes, halls generally, sharing bathrooms - not nice at all and I feel for all parents with kids at uni right now, it must be worrying. One of SvL's friends works at Dundee uni and I think he has been less than impressed with the situation.
Those 'posh' halls.... I was there in, ahem, '87. :D

Son#1 had pretty rubbishy halls first year at Southampton -- 17 to a tiny galley kitchen, big shared bathroom with shower stalls, but a big room with great natural light that he really liked.

Son#2 went to St Andrews. (Still there actually; Phd.) First year, he stayed in the same halls MrRaven stayed in 30ish years prior, but they'd ripped them down and rebuilt, and they were lovely. 5-student flats, with ensuite showers & nice kitchens. Even a bl..dy dishwasher.

Cost twice as much as the halls at Cambridge would've, mind. Barely had any loan left after rent.

He tells us St Andrews is so over-subscribed this year, they've leased a hall from Dundee. Dunno how that's going, but they've had cases & freshers partying on the beach, even tho the uni is doing their best to discourage that. Asked students to voluntarily lockdown two weekends ago, which might've helped a bit. They had 2 cases in the first week, up to 20 or so now, I think.

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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by jimbob » Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:44 pm

Aberdeen again:

Day Positive Cases Self-isolating*
Monday 28 September 44 -
Tuesday 29 September 62 -
Wednesday 30 September 82 215
Thursday 1 October 99 230
Friday 2 October 107 241
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by Ren » Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:15 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:29 pm
UK gov has just released its strategy for "helping" universities struggling with the impact of the pandemic. https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ing-regime

I've not read it yet and it'll take time for informed commentary to be published, but university people on Twitter are not impressed, eg this thread https://mobile.twitter.com/martin_eve/s ... 25249?s=09
--
"we are actively considering how to reduce the burden of bureaucracy imposed by Government and regulators"... OK, that would be good.
--
So, this just turned out to be (a) demanding that the NSS be abolished since it doesn't measure quality (correct), and replaced with a non-published survey where the DfE have greater say over the questions (I look forward to the ones on value for money and whether we are surpressing traditional conservative viewpoints), which will be used to regulate us; and (b) telling universities to reduce internal bureaucracy (presumably so they can then cut fees as per Augar, as we will have saved loads of money by then).

Excitingly, the reason why the NSS is going is because it drives down standards, and doesn't align with more accurate measures of quality such as graduate outcome scores, continuation rates, and grade inflation metrics (none of which measure quality).

Unsurprisingly, none of this bodes well.

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Re: Impact on Universities

Post by FlammableFlower » Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:36 pm

And now the sh.t really hits the fan:

Uni of Manchester >1,000 cases
Manchester Metropolitan University 500 cases
Uni of Sheffield ~600 cases
Northumbria Uni 770 cases and staff have voted to go on strike and call for resignation of VC

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