Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Covid-19 discussion, bring your own statistics
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gosling
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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by gosling » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:25 pm

I don't know why I get funny looks on the tube.

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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by Herainestold » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:49 pm

There is a small benefit , mainly to society, but also to you, to wearing a mask providing you still adhere to physical distancing and other protocols, and you wear the mask properly, and don't fiddle with it, and replace it when it becomes damp.

A small benefit is better than no benefit, but know what you should be doing with it and how you should be using it.

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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by TimW » Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:22 am

You'll all be clamouring for one of these.

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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by tom p » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:54 am

TimW wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:22 am
You'll all be clamouring for one of these.


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well it's certain to make people want to keep away from you!

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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by TopBadger » Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:29 pm

I'm sure I remember seeing pictures of face masks being handed out in the street outside transport hubs in EU countries.

Whereas in the UK we're advising people to wear a mask - when actual masks are like hens teeth. And Masks are going to be compulsory from mid June (another timely decision, not)? Where are folks supposed to find one?

So essentially... "we require you to wear a mask (and good luck finding one)".

They're f.cking hopeless - they really are.
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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by jdc » Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:42 pm

My local Asda had loads of packs of disposable masks by the self-service tills if anyone's struggling to find 'em. I've also found some office supplies companies have them - you might not be able to buy from some suppliers (one of ours is not supplying 'private customers') but some don't seem to have those restrictions (might be worth trying small, local firms?).

I was thinking of trying that Latvian place for some reusable ones.

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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:48 pm

Hopefully now they're compulsory the market will swing into action.

Absolutely bonkers that the UK government has only just realised that masks are useful when every other country nearby made them compulsory months ago.
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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by jdc » Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:58 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:48 pm
Hopefully now they're compulsory the market will swing into action.

Absolutely bonkers that the UK government has only just realised that masks are useful when every other country nearby made them compulsory months ago.
I believe they're only compulsory on public transport from 15th June and only in England. We can all still wander round coughing on each other while we're shopping, BBQing, and sunbathing. Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish can still cough on each other on the bus, tram, or ferry too.

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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:23 pm

jdc wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:58 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:48 pm
Hopefully now they're compulsory the market will swing into action.

Absolutely bonkers that the UK government has only just realised that masks are useful when every other country nearby made them compulsory months ago.
I believe they're only compulsory on public transport from 15th June and only in England. We can all still wander round coughing on each other while we're shopping, BBQing, and sunbathing. Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish can still cough on each other on the bus, tram, or ferry too.
I really just genuinely don't understand it.

Like, Portugal isn't a particularly organised or well-resourced country, but they managed to implement much more firm restrictions - on venue capacity, enforced closures, mask use, adaptations to transport (rear doors only to protect bus drivers, for instance) and came up with them all in the space of a few days.

The UK approach still seems to be based around letting individuals decide for themselves what they should do, and without even offering them clear advice. I'm normally in favour of personal liberty, but when it comes to stopping a pandemic a firm hand is probably a good idea.

It's going to drag on for ages over there, isn't it?
now I'm falling asleep and she's calling acab

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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by gosling » Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:28 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:23 pm
It's going to drag on for ages over there, isn't it?
Yes.

TfL are going to start handing out single-use masks at tube stations on Monday, as a trial.

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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by Fishnut » Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:31 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:23 pm
The UK approach still seems to be based around letting individuals decide for themselves what they should do, and without even offering them clear advice. I'm normally in favour of personal liberty, but when it comes to stopping a pandemic a firm hand is probably a good idea.
It's the clear guidance that's really lacking. I honestly have no idea where we stand with regards the lockdown now. Is it still on? If so why are non-essential shops opening? If it's not, why hasn't parliament had a debate about it? It's all very well to let people do what they think is best but they can only go on the information they're offered and right now that information is full of contradictions, caveats and conditionals. It is unnecessarily complicated and I fear that's the point because then they can blame people for not following the rules rather than government incompetence.

If masks are required, why isn't the government supplying them, at cost or even free? They gave out gas masks during WW2 so why not face masks during COVID-19?
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:23 pm
It's going to drag on for ages over there, isn't it?
Yes

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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:31 pm

gosling wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:28 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:23 pm
It's going to drag on for ages over there, isn't it?
Yes.

TfL are going to start handing out single-use masks at tube stations on Monday, as a trial.
Welcome to March in Portugal!
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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by EACLucifer » Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:47 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:31 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:23 pm
The UK approach still seems to be based around letting individuals decide for themselves what they should do, and without even offering them clear advice. I'm normally in favour of personal liberty, but when it comes to stopping a pandemic a firm hand is probably a good idea.
It's the clear guidance that's really lacking. I honestly have no idea where we stand with regards the lockdown now. Is it still on? If so why are non-essential shops opening? If it's not, why hasn't parliament had a debate about it? It's all very well to let people do what they think is best but they can only go on the information they're offered and right now that information is full of contradictions, caveats and conditionals. It is unnecessarily complicated and I fear that's the point because then they can blame people for not following the rules rather than government incompetence.
It is very difficult for a populace to overcome a lack of leadership, and that is why we see the worst outbreaks in countries where leadership has been absent, negligent or counter-productive, like the UK, the US, Sweden and Brazil.

A friend of mine made and distributed several hundred masks for free, and I did my best, giving out masks I had made to everyone on my (admittedly short) street. We have likewise done our best to advocate for mass mask wearing, but when there's government ministers and their complicit medics flooding the airwaves with a mixture of genuinely useful information, misleading half truths, poor priorities and useless drivel every day, it is hard to make much headway.

I think Trisha Greenhalgh deserves a lot of credit for her role in pushing for this, and making the case in academic literature. The available evidence does lean towards masking especially for source control of droplets, but the inertia of an establishment that has been pushing an incorrect line is difficult to overcome.
If masks are required, why isn't the government supplying them, at cost or even free? They gave out gas masks during WW2 so why not face masks during COVID-19?
Speaking of which, I'm now sewing a "Don't Sneeze On Me" patch onto my gas mask case. No longer willing to f.ck about, I've gone down the milsurp route with an actual gas mask.
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:23 pm
It's going to drag on for ages over there, isn't it?
Yes
Yes. We are a long way from done, and a long way from ready to make serious attempts to a return to normal. R's up to just a fraction below one, and locally at or over one in a couple of regions, with margins for error on that measurement that mean it is possible R is widely a little above one.

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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by Trinucleus » Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:18 pm

TopBadger wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:29 pm
I'm sure I remember seeing pictures of face masks being handed out in the street outside transport hubs in EU countries.

Whereas in the UK we're advising people to wear a mask - when actual masks are like hens teeth. And Masks are going to be compulsory from mid June (another timely decision, not)? Where are folks supposed to find one?

So essentially... "we require you to wear a mask (and good luck finding one)".

They're f.cking hopeless - they really are.
Doesn't have to be a mask though - just says 'face covering' so a scarf is ok

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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by Herainestold » Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:09 pm

I saw masks at the checkout at the grocery on Monday.
I didn't buy any, because I have some I acquired in January when we could see this pandemic coming. People on this forum criticized me for advocating masks.
I disagree with Lucifer on many topics but he has done more than most for public health by advocating, making and disributing masks.
Good on him.

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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by jdc » Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:09 pm

Trinucleus wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:18 pm
TopBadger wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:29 pm
I'm sure I remember seeing pictures of face masks being handed out in the street outside transport hubs in EU countries.

Whereas in the UK we're advising people to wear a mask - when actual masks are like hens teeth. And Masks are going to be compulsory from mid June (another timely decision, not)? Where are folks supposed to find one?

So essentially... "we require you to wear a mask (and good luck finding one)".

They're f.cking hopeless - they really are.
Doesn't have to be a mask though - just says 'face covering' so a scarf is ok
Yep. Actually I think the article I read said the govt were actively encouraging home-made face coverings and saying we needed to save the actual masks for medics.

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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by shpalman » Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:15 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... s-over-60s

WHO finally admits we should all be wearing them.
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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:29 pm

Another consideration is if there's a PPE shortage, medical-grade masks should obviously be reserved for frontline workers in healthcare settings etc.

Portugal had a terrible shortage for about a week in March, with medical staff having to buy them online at exorbitant rates, but it seems to be fixed now. All the newly opened shops have a range of masks near the entrance along with the compulsory hand sanitizer.

So unless everyone in the UK has just been pissing about for months that situation should be rectified.
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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:42 pm

It strikes me that the debate around masks is a bit like the debate about bicycle helmets, but in reverse.

Bike helmets protect the wearer, in theory, but can increase risk by changing the behaviour of those around them. Whereas face masks may change the behaviour of the wearer, but protect people around them.

Still, I can't imagine a sensible community like this getting into an argument about stuff like that.
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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by JQH » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:03 pm

You could steak your life on it.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by dyqik » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:10 pm

JQH wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:03 pm
You could steak your life on it.
Well done!
It rarely happens.

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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by Squeak » Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:59 pm

I wore a mask for the first time today (it's really not a thing here) so that I could go to the Black Lives Matter protest. As we were leaving, a charming gentleman came up to us and deliberately coughed in my friend's face and swore at us to take those "f.cking things off, you f.cking idiots". Which was delightful.

I guess that's to be expected somewhere that hasn't made them part of the culture.

Edit for swypoes

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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by Fishnut » Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:02 pm

Squeak wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:59 pm
I wore a mask for the first time today (it's really not a thing here) so that I could go to the Black Lives Matter protest. As we were leaving, a charming gentleman came up to us and deliberately coughed in my friend's face and swore at us to take those "f.cking things off, you f.cking idiots". Which was delightful.

I guess that's to be expected somewhere that hasn't made them part of the culture.

Edit for swypoes
bl..dy hell, that's disgusting. I hope you're both ok and the protest went well.

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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by raven » Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:09 pm

@ Fishnut -Good for you for going. And wtf is wrong with people.

Mrraven spotted disposable masks in the co-op today, in the household aisle if anyone is after some. Probably not medical grade or anything, and he couldn't see a price. (I'm going to get the sewing machine out I think. Disposable=more waste in landfill.)

Seems like shops are gearing up for them becoming compulsory on public transport though.

Wot Fishnut said upthread about clear guidance being lacking is spot on. Everybody hears 'you can meet people in gardens' and does exactly that, without distancing. And as for the idea of hosting a bbq and asking all the guest to wipe down the bathroom every time they use it.... I can't see people doing that, if they even heard about it.

Didn't they speak to the behaviour boffins at all? You need simple and clear, or it isn't going to happen.

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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?

Post by EACLucifer » Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:30 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:02 pm
Squeak wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:59 pm
I wore a mask for the first time today (it's really not a thing here) so that I could go to the Black Lives Matter protest. As we were leaving, a charming gentleman came up to us and deliberately coughed in my friend's face and swore at us to take those "f.cking things off, you f.cking idiots". Which was delightful.

I guess that's to be expected somewhere that hasn't made them part of the culture.

Edit for swypoes
bl..dy hell, that's disgusting. I hope you're both ok and the protest went well.
Seconded on all counts.

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