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Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:25 pm
by Squeak
EACLucifer wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:30 pm
Fishnut wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:02 pm
Squeak wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:59 pm
I wore a mask for the first time today (it's really not a thing here) so that I could go to the Black Lives Matter protest. As we were leaving, a charming gentleman came up to us and deliberately coughed in my friend's face and swore at us to take those "f.cking things off, you f.cking idiots". Which was delightful.
I guess that's to be expected somewhere that hasn't made them part of the culture.
Edit for swypoes
bl..dy hell, that's disgusting. I hope you're both ok and the protest went well.
Seconded on all counts.
Thanks both, we're fine, I think. Or at least, I am. As my Tamil friend said, at least she can take the mask off to stop the shouting, which is easier then removing her skin. :/
And with no local transmission of covid, and very low incidence of other winter sneezes, it was pretty low risk obnoxiousness.
The protest itself was quite lovely. Lit candles in the park, short speeches, interspersed with requests to go home if we'd had our moment of reflection, and no chanting. Best of all, no expectation that we'd like to stand in the freezng cold, listening to ten identical mumbled speeches for a few hours. It was a really good sized turnout for our city, even if you didn't account for the turnover rate.
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:25 pm
by TAFKAsoveda
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:39 pm
Another question from my family WhatsApp group, but hopefully of wider interest:
My mum works with old folks, and is looking into getting a face visor from Vistaprint
https://www.vistaprint.co.uk/clothing-bags/face-shields as they're more comfortable for long-term use than the homemade cloth masks she's currently got. Does anyone know if this kind of design is reliable?
Those sorts of visors help against getting droplets in your eyes but don’t really help with the whole breathing thing. When I am in an area with risk of aerosol production I have to wear visor plus ffp3 mask (amongst other things) but the visors are only used if there is a risk of people spitting in ordinary CV+ve circs.
- 7F8B866A-FCA0-4864-9A6D-3649A9B70E30.jpeg (548.37 KiB) Viewed 4886 times
PPE selfie for reference- yes it is bl..dy hot under all that!
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:34 am
by shpalman
A paper claiming that masks were ineffective against covid has been retracted:
https://retractionwatch.com/2020/06/01/ ... 19-spread/
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:45 am
by Bird on a Fire
TAFKAsoveda wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:25 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:39 pm
Another question from my family WhatsApp group, but hopefully of wider interest:
My mum works with old folks, and is looking into getting a face visor from Vistaprint
https://www.vistaprint.co.uk/clothing-bags/face-shields as they're more comfortable for long-term use than the homemade cloth masks she's currently got. Does anyone know if this kind of design is reliable?
Those sorts of visors help against getting droplets in your eyes but don’t really help with the whole breathing thing. When I am in an area with risk of aerosol production I have to wear visor plus ffp3 mask (amongst other things) but the visors are only used if there is a risk of people spitting in ordinary CV+ve circs.
7F8B866A-FCA0-4864-9A6D-3649A9B70E30.jpeg
PPE selfie for reference- yes it is bl..dy hot under all that!
Thank you for this, by the way. I've passed it on.
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:28 pm
by bagpuss
Fishnut wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:31 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:23 pm
The UK approach still seems to be based around letting individuals decide for themselves what they should do, and without even offering them clear advice. I'm normally in favour of personal liberty, but when it comes to stopping a pandemic a firm hand is probably a good idea.
It's the clear guidance that's really lacking. I honestly have no idea where we stand with regards the lockdown now. Is it still on? If so why are non-essential shops opening? If it's not, why hasn't parliament had a debate about it? It's all very well to let people do what they think is best but they can only go on the information they're offered and right now that information is full of contradictions, caveats and conditionals. It is unnecessarily complicated and I fear that's the point because then they can blame people for not following the rules rather than government incompetence.
If masks are required, why isn't the government supplying them, at cost or even free? They gave out gas masks during WW2 so why not face masks during COVID-19?
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:23 pm
It's going to drag on for ages over there, isn't it?
Yes
Helll yes, so very much this - the lack of clear guidance that is. We've gone from the nice, simple, straightforward "Stay home unless you are exercising alone/in household group or really really need to go out (and we mean
need)" to something I'm not even going to begin to attempt to summarise because, frankly, I've completely lost any sense of understanding of what the rules even are today and they'll probably have changed by tomorrow anyway. I just don't have the mental energy right now to keep up. If it comes to a point where I need to go out, I'll read up on what I'm allowed to do then but for now, we're sticking with the simple staying home except some exercise approach.
The constant drip drip of changes to the rules, not helped by the fact that some are announced as "from tomorrow" and some as "from date X" and others "Not before date Y and we'll confirm nearer the time if and when it can happen", is absolutely bonkers and gives a clear impression of a government who has not got any kind of hold on the situation and is making decisions on the spur of the moment or on the basis of what the last major Tory donor asked for on a Zoom call this morning. Why can't they just have a weekly update announcement - say every Saturday or Sunday - with any new rules to come in from Monday morning and an overall summary of what will then be allowed. No changes so far have been so urgent that they couldn't wait a few days and anything that is urgent - eg "f.ck, we got it wrong, we need to go back to full lockdown, like, now" would obviously be an exception. Then sometime midweek they could release guidance on the current plan for the next few weeks, so that people have some forewarning of what's coming so they can prepare, but don't get it confused with the rules as of now announcement at the weekend.
The lack of any internal logic in what is opening up and when doesn't help either - it's even harder to keep track if rules if they don't make sense. Theme parks are going to be allowed to open but not zoos? Face masks will be required on public transport but not in a supermarket?
Anyway, face masks. It seems to be reasonably clear now that they're a good idea at least for short periods of time under certain circumstances. Don't use proper PPE unless you need it, chuck a scarf over your face if you can't get a face mask. "Buffs" are still widely available, can easily be pulled over nose and mouth for a short time if needed and can double up as a handy hairband to keep the lockdown mane in check. Although you might not want to do that after it's been covering your face for half an hour or so.
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:29 pm
by bagpuss
bagpuss wrote: ↑Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:28 pm
Fishnut wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:31 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:23 pm
The UK approach still seems to be based around letting individuals decide for themselves what they should do, and without even offering them clear advice. I'm normally in favour of personal liberty, but when it comes to stopping a pandemic a firm hand is probably a good idea.
It's the clear guidance that's really lacking. I honestly have no idea where we stand with regards the lockdown now. Is it still on? If so why are non-essential shops opening? If it's not, why hasn't parliament had a debate about it? It's all very well to let people do what they think is best but they can only go on the information they're offered and right now that information is full of contradictions, caveats and conditionals. It is unnecessarily complicated and I fear that's the point because then they can blame people for not following the rules rather than government incompetence.
If masks are required, why isn't the government supplying them, at cost or even free? They gave out gas masks during WW2 so why not face masks during COVID-19?
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:23 pm
It's going to drag on for ages over there, isn't it?
Yes
Helll yes, so very much this - the lack of clear guidance that is. We've gone from the nice, simple, straightforward "Stay home unless you are exercising alone/in household group or really really need to go out (and we mean
need)" to something I'm not even going to begin to attempt to summarise because, frankly, I've completely lost any sense of understanding of what the rules even are today and they'll probably have changed by tomorrow anyway. I just don't have the mental energy right now to keep up. If it comes to a point where I need to go out, I'll read up on what I'm allowed to do then but for now, we're sticking with the simple staying home except some exercise approach.
The constant drip drip of changes to the rules, not helped by the fact that some are announced as "from tomorrow" and some as "from date X" and others "Not before date Y and we'll confirm nearer the time if and when it can happen", is absolutely bonkers and gives a clear impression of a government who has not got any kind of hold on the situation and is making decisions on the spur of the moment or on the basis of what the last major Tory donor asked for on a Zoom call this morning. Why can't they just have a weekly update announcement - say every Saturday or Sunday - with any new rules to come in from Monday morning and an overall summary of what will then be allowed. No changes so far have been so urgent that they couldn't wait a few days and anything that is urgent - eg "f.ck, we got it wrong, we need to go back to full lockdown, like, now" would obviously be an exception. Then sometime midweek they could release guidance on the current plan for the next few weeks, so that people have some forewarning of what's coming so they can prepare, but don't get it confused with the rules as of now announcement at the weekend.
The lack of any internal logic in what is opening up and when doesn't help either - it's even harder to keep track of rules if they don't make sense. Theme parks are going to be allowed to open but not zoos? Face masks will be required on public transport but not in a supermarket?
Anyway, face masks. It seems to be reasonably clear now that they're a good idea at least for short periods of time under certain circumstances. Don't use proper PPE unless you need it, chuck a scarf over your face if you can't get a face mask. "Buffs" are still widely available, can easily be pulled over nose and mouth for a short time if needed and can double up as a handy hairband to keep the lockdown mane in check. Although you might not want to do that after it's been covering your face for half an hour or so.
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:44 pm
by Gentleman Jim
Go mad and dress up as if you were going in a pharmaceutical clean room
Watch and learn all you operating theatre practitioners
In many places, the disinfectant for glove washing could well be 7.5% Formaldehyde + 5% Gluteraldehyde + 6% Quarternary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWxwPjI9u98
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:34 pm
by Herainestold
Good video. I am going to dress like that every time I go to the grocery.
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:25 am
by Gentleman Jim
Careful, it may look at bit too much like a blue burka
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:25 pm
by Herainestold
Gentleman Jim wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:25 am
Careful, it may look at bit too much like a blue burka
Could a burka be modified to be an effective anti-viral protection suit?
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:25 am
by Martin_B
Herainestold wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:25 pm
Gentleman Jim wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:25 am
Careful, it may look at bit too much like a blue burka
Could a burka be modified to be an effective anti-viral protection suit?
I suppose you could amend a men's felt coat to be some form of anti-viral protection suit, but burkas are more like heavy cloaks (sometimes with arms) than suits, so everyday tasks may necessitate the cloak to be opened to gain access to keys, wallet, etc, thereby ruining the anti-viral effectiveness.
However if you and Gentleman Jim meant
burqa, the face covering could be amended to include a viral protection mask. You'd have the same issue as above with gaining access to everyday items in pockets, although if you used a handbag you can get round this. You would have to wear gloves to access the handbag, and after accessing the handbag you should sanitize the gloves before bringing them back into the burqa, or you risk contaminating the clothing underneath the burqa.
But why would you bother doing that, when you can either wear a normal mask under the burqa/niqab/yashmak/veil, or just wear a hijab with a mask?
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:38 am
by Herainestold
Just imagining culturally appropriate biohazard gear.
I would guess that the muslim community is more on board with face masks, does anybody know?
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:10 am
by Gentleman Jim
Except that facial hair markedly reduces the effectiveness of facemasks
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:14 pm
by Herainestold
Gentleman Jim wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:10 am
Except that facial hair markedly reduces the effectiveness of facemasks
Good point.
It should make a difference in infection rates, male vs female, in certiain populations. Muslims and Millenials are two that come to mind.
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:19 pm
by EACLucifer
Gentleman Jim wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:10 am
Except that facial hair markedly reduces the effectiveness of facemasks
Got to admit I'm curious how that checks out across different mask styles. Got no problems getting my more involved masks to seal properly, despite extensive facial hair. On two of them*, it's easy to check - block the filter for a moment and see if it is possible to breath in - while the half mask I've used for years to deal with paint fumes etc blocks all sense of smell when worn.
*A Fernez milsurp one, out of date but still in good nick, and an old Russian GP5 that was bought as a backup in case customs were weird about the Fernez.
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:13 pm
by shpalman
A simple demonstration regarding bacteria:
https://twitter.com/richdavisphd/status ... 79712?s=09
It drives me nuts when people pull the mask down to talk.
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:47 pm
by Trinucleus
Interesting that there's not much difference between talking and singing - will results be much different for spreading the virus?
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:19 pm
by bolo
Trinucleus wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:47 pm
Interesting that there's not much difference between talking and singing - will results be much different for spreading the virus?
A group of singers will all be singing most of the time. A group of talkers will mostly be listening to the 1 person who's talking. So singing should be worse. Also probably a choir is packed together more closely than a conversation.
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:49 pm
by Herainestold
bolo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:19 pm
Trinucleus wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:47 pm
Interesting that there's not much difference between talking and singing - will results be much different for spreading the virus?
A group of singers will all be singing most of the time. A group of talkers will mostly be listening to the 1 person who's talking. So singing should be worse. Also probably a choir is packed together more closely than a conversation.
I was a bit surprised by this result. Choirs or any kind of group singing is an obvious problem. What about Karaoke? Can you sing with a mask on? I think not. Not that I am defending karaoke.I think avoid singing, loud talking, etc. Avoid close contact with people. Wear a mask. Be subtle.
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:13 am
by Martin_B
Herainestold wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:49 pm
bolo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:19 pm
Trinucleus wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:47 pm
Interesting that there's not much difference between talking and singing - will results be much different for spreading the virus?
A group of singers will all be singing most of the time. A group of talkers will mostly be listening to the 1 person who's talking. So singing should be worse. Also probably a choir is packed together more closely than a conversation.
I was a bit surprised by this result. Choirs or any kind of group singing is an obvious problem. What about Karaoke? Can you sing with a mask on? I think not. Not that I am defending karaoke.I think avoid singing, loud talking, etc. Avoid close contact with people. Wear a mask. Be subtle.
Well, with karaoke you sing onto a microphone. Everyone sings onto the same microphone, but as long as you clean your hands after handling the microphone and don't hold it too close to have your lips brush it while singing, it *shouldn't* be too bad.
And yes, for singing you are singing non-stop, but for talking to one person you might only be talking half the time. If it's a bigger group, you might only talk 20 or 15 seconds out of each minute (always allowing for certain people to dominate conversations!) However, when a choir is singing you don't stand that close to them, while you do stand close to someone whilst talking. So singing might be less hazardous than talking (for the listener, anyway).
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:12 pm
by Herainestold
The thing about karaoke is that if somebody is bellowing out a tune the safe distance has to be more than two metres, probably three or four or more.
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:34 pm
by Aitch
Herainestold wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:12 pm
The thing about karaoke is that if somebody is bellowing out a tune the safe distance has to be more than two metres, probably three or four or more.
In my opinion, the next room would be better. Or a different pub.
But don't mind me - I'm a bit grumpy because my weight broke the 13 st barrier this week - in the wrong direction.
Oh, and I do have a mask (washable, re-usable) from a local pharmacy. Just in case. And a couple of washable silver impregnated ones are on order from The Big Bloomers Company.
Probably not great (but a nice colour) - does the placebo effect kill viruses?
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:12 pm
by Trinucleus
bolo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:19 pm
Trinucleus wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:47 pm
Interesting that there's not much difference between talking and singing - will results be much different for spreading the virus?
A group of singers will all be singing most of the time. A group of talkers will mostly be listening to the 1 person who's talking. So singing should be worse. Also probably a choir is packed together more closely than a conversation.
That's a fair point, but the conductor aside, thinking of my wife's choir, the singers aren't facing anyone?
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:11 pm
by shpalman
Re: Hi guys, there is lot of empahsis on face mask during COVID19. Is it worth it?
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:15 am
by Herainestold
Singing seems to be one of the most dangeropus practises in terms of spreading the virus.