International travel

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shpalman
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Re: International travel

Post by shpalman » Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:38 pm

Italy has just suspended flights from the UK too.
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Re: International travel

Post by shpalman » Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:02 pm

Despite people now living under Tier 4 restrictions in the UK being told not to travel unless essential, Eurostar tickets sold out in less than hour on Sunday morning, amid suggestions France was likely to ban UK travellers, PA Media reports. At 11.50am there were seats available on the three Eurostar trains leaving London for Paris on Sunday, at 12.24pm, 13.31pm and 7.01pm.
Less than an hour later, no tickets were available for purchase on any Eurostar train leaving London on Sunday.
because of course they did
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Re: International travel

Post by sTeamTraen » Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:48 pm

shpalman wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:02 pm
Despite people now living under Tier 4 restrictions in the UK being told not to travel unless essential, Eurostar tickets sold out in less than hour on Sunday morning, amid suggestions France was likely to ban UK travellers, PA Media reports. At 11.50am there were seats available on the three Eurostar trains leaving London for Paris on Sunday, at 12.24pm, 13.31pm and 7.01pm.
Less than an hour later, no tickets were available for purchase on any Eurostar train leaving London on Sunday.
because of course they did
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Re: International travel

Post by Woodchopper » Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:06 pm


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Re: International travel

Post by Woodchopper » Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:14 pm

shpalman wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:02 pm
Despite people now living under Tier 4 restrictions in the UK being told not to travel unless essential, Eurostar tickets sold out in less than hour on Sunday morning, amid suggestions France was likely to ban UK travellers, PA Media reports. At 11.50am there were seats available on the three Eurostar trains leaving London for Paris on Sunday, at 12.24pm, 13.31pm and 7.01pm.
Less than an hour later, no tickets were available for purchase on any Eurostar train leaving London on Sunday.
because of course they did
I expect that most of the passengers are French, Belgian, Dutch and others trying to get home for Christmas.

Irresponsible given the risk of spreading super Covid to their families, but also understandable.

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Re: International travel

Post by Woodchopper » Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:18 pm

And Germany and Ireland suspend flights. The EU will look out of step if it doesn’t.

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Re: International travel

Post by Woodchopper » Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:42 pm

Can’t keep up with all the places which are suspending travel with the UK

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Re: International travel

Post by sTeamTraen » Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:07 pm

France has stopped all passenger and driver traffic from the UK for 48 hours. This includes trucks. The only freight being allowed in is on freight trains. (I'm not sure about the drivers of those; maybe the UK driver gets out of the cab at Calais, hoses it down with detergent, and stands on the back rail of the next train back.)

As a result, the Port of Dover is closed for the same 48 hours. That's going to be a barrel of laughs for anyone who was planning to use the M20 tomorrow, and indeed anyone trying to get goods out of the UK before Christmas/Brexit.

Perhaps even more worryingly, since many lorries will be travelling empty to the EU, is that 48 hours worth of delay means probably 20,000 trucks that won't be on the European side to bring fresh food etc back over to Blighty.

I imagine that people at some fairly high level in the EU will be meeting in the morning to coordinate their response. One problem is that there are multiple basic protocols for limiting the flow of people with COVID (e.g., some places have quarantine requirements while others, like Spain, have no quarantine but insist on a negative test), and the new virus strain doesn't seem to be objectively much of a game-changer for the latter.

Of course, whatever they decide will presumably be governed by the EU's deep-seated love and admiration for the UK and its always-positive stance towards them, which has been further strengthened over the past few years and months. So obviously they will be looking to impose minimum inconvenience on the UK, even if it results in their own populations getting infected with a new strain. It 's good to have friends.
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Re: International travel

Post by headshot » Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:16 pm

f.ck.

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Re: International travel

Post by dyqik » Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:43 pm

One major item shipped through the Chunnel is the Pfizer vaccine.

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Re: International travel

Post by lpm » Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:45 pm

Military can airlift the vaccine.

No EU lorry driver is going to volunteer to come into the UK in the next 48 hours - could be stuck here for the duration. So it will just be British drivers returning home.

Farewell fresh fruit and veg. You shall be missed.
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Re: International travel

Post by sTeamTraen » Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:46 pm

headshot wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:16 pm
f.ck.
It might be worse than that.

You're a French trucker this evening. You get a WhatsApp from your agency or employer telling you to be at Rungis market on the edge of Paris at 6am to pick up 30 tons of Brittany cauliflowers for Tesco's fresh produce distribution centre near Maidstone. Normally this would take around 8 hours; you'd be in Maidstone by 1pm (with the hour you get back). If there is no return load to pick up from elsewhere in the UK you could be back in France by 5pm local time and maybe even home in time for a late dinner.

But now you know that you won't be allowed to leave the UK for another 36 hours after you arrive. f.ck that. That's all of Tuesday you won't be working, plus most of Wednesday (because even if they let you on the shuttle or ferry at midnight on Tuesday, you'll use up half your quota of hours on Wednesday morning). You're going to call in sick, or bid 50 Euros less than you might normally to take a load of car transmission parts from Le Mans to Stuttgart. That's two truckloads of cauliflowers that aren't getting to Tesco.

Good job Christmas dinner has been cancelled, eh?

[ETA: Ninja'ed by lpm]
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Re: International travel

Post by lpm » Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:14 pm

Any guesses for how long it takes for a cauliflower to reach a Tesco shelf?

My assumption is the supermarkets already have the huge food stocks needed for the 4 days to Xmas Eve. So the cauliflower that isn't arriving tomorrow will be an absence on the shelves on maybe next Sunday?
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Re: International travel

Post by dyqik » Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:16 pm

lpm wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:45 pm
Military can airlift the vaccine.
If the vaccine can be redirected to a military airfield within the EU that will allow UK planes to land. Takes competent logistics and some diplomacy to acheive...


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Re: International travel

Post by sTeamTraen » Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:55 pm

shpalman wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:07 pm
Worth noting that all non-Germans separated from Germans. IE not just Brits
Not great optics for Germany. :o
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Re: International travel

Post by Millennie Al » Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:37 am

lpm wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:45 pm
Farewell fresh fruit and veg. You shall be missed.
Probably, but it's not guaranteed. Goods can still move - just that they cannot be driven across towed by a cab. The trailer can go unattached, or a container can be transferred from a trailer to a ship. So with careful attention to logisitics, the driver who would have driven UK -> France can be match with another who would have driven France -> UK and they can stay on their own sides of the cChannel and swap loads. Of course that may not be practical as it's probably not possible to have a sudden massive increase in unaccompanied loads, but I expect that if it were left to the people actually doing the work, rather than useless government ministers, something could be got working fairly soon - certainly before we all start having to live off whatever it is that the UK grows these days.
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Re: International travel

Post by shpalman » Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:08 am

sTeamTraen wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:55 pm
shpalman wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:07 pm
Worth noting that all non-Germans separated from Germans. IE not just Brits
Not great optics for Germany. :o
Seems to me like what happened on this occasion are just the normal travel rules in the time of covid and have nothing in particular to do with the new variant.
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Re: International travel

Post by sTeamTraen » Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:39 pm

Millennie Al wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:37 am
Probably, but it's not guaranteed. Goods can still move - just that they cannot be driven across towed by a cab. The trailer can go unattached, or a container can be transferred from a trailer to a ship.
How many cranes and operators do you think there are at either end of the Channel Tunnel terminal that can take a container off a lorry? Have a look here and see how many you can count. I'm up to zero so far.

How long does it take to drive a lorry onto a Eurotunnel train, detach the cab, and drive that out round the other end? And how do you get the cab off the front of the second trailer on the wagon - by helicopter? Then, when the train gets to its destination, how long does it take to back cabs one by one into the train wagon, hook them up, and pull the trailers out?

How many ships do you think there are operating out of Dover that are certified to carry containers on deck?
Millennie Al wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:37 am
So with careful attention to logisitics, the driver who would have driven UK -> France can be match with another who would have driven France -> UK and they can stay on their own sides of the cChannel and swap loads.
"Careful attention to logistics" -- how are you going to organise this? With an Excel sheet?
Millennie Al wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:37 am
Of course that may not be practical as it's probably not possible to have a sudden massive increase in unaccompanied loads, but I expect that if it were left to the people actually doing the work, rather than useless government ministers, something could be got working fairly soon - certainly before we all start having to live off whatever it is that the UK grows these days.
You have 48 hours. Good luck.
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Re: International travel

Post by Opti » Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:45 pm

Lots of very pissed off Brit 2nd home owners moaning like f.ck about Spain's travel ban. Apparently it's all some negotiating ploy by the dastardly French. Or something.
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Re: International travel

Post by shpalman » Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:52 pm

Opti wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:45 pm
Lots of very pissed off Brit 2nd home owners moaning like f.ck about Spain's travel ban. Apparently it's all some negotiating ploy by the dastardly French. Or something.
Only Spanish citizens and those resident in Spain will be allowed to enter the country
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Re: International travel

Post by Brightonian » Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:57 pm

Causes a problem for some people who've left it a little late in the day to emigrate:
IMG_20201221_145430.jpg
IMG_20201221_145430.jpg (140.34 KiB) Viewed 151 times

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Re: International travel

Post by Opti » Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:13 pm

Anyone who had left it this late to try residencia in Spain had already left it too late.
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Re: International travel

Post by Little waster » Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:36 pm

Reassuring exchange on the BBC

BBC newsreader: "The PM is in an emergency meeting. We've been told the French are imminently going to relent and allow a resumption of normal travel before the 48 hours are up".

Reporter on the ground: "No, none of that is going to happen, all the talk here is how that definitely not going to happen, any suggestion that it might be going to happen is pure wishful thinking on the Brits behalf."


I remember when the BBC used to to aspire to be more than mere mouthpieces for whatever paper-thin lie would get the government through to the next news cycle. :|
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Re: International travel

Post by Millennie Al » Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:15 am

sTeamTraen wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:39 pm
Millennie Al wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:37 am
Probably, but it's not guaranteed.
How long does it take to drive a lorry onto a Eurotunnel train, detach the cab, and drive that out round the other end? And how do you get the cab off the front of the second trailer on the wagon - by helicopter?
Note what I said! I am merely pointing out a theoretical possibility. But to answer that speciaif question - if it's a problem, reverse them on and then the cab is at the right end to drive off.
Millennie Al wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:37 am
So with careful attention to logisitics, the driver who would have driven UK -> France can be match with another who would have driven France -> UK and they can stay on their own sides of the cChannel and swap loads.
"Careful attention to logistics" -- how are you going to organise this? With an Excel sheet?
I'm not going to organise it at all. If it happens it will need to be organised by the people actually doing the work - hauliers etc.
Millennie Al wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:37 am
Of course that may not be practical as it's probably not possible to have a sudden massive increase in unaccompanied loads, but I expect that if it were left to the people actually doing the work, rather than useless government ministers, something could be got working fairly soon - certainly before we all start having to live off whatever it is that the UK grows these days.
You have 48 hours. Good luck.
It's not going to happen in 48 hours, regardless of who works on it. Don't assume that everything goes back to normal after 48 hours.
Covid-19 - Don't catch it: don't spread it.

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