International travel

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tenchboy
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Re: International travel

Post by tenchboy » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:43 pm

tenchboy wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:19 pm
Update 2. Same.

Update 2.png
"...Manston Airport, where a lorry-holding facility run by the Department for Transport is now full."

"More than 5,000 lorries are being held in Kent, according to the Department for Transport."

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Re: International travel

Post by tenchboy » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:48 pm

jimbob wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:38 pm
FlammableFlower wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:03 pm

I also discovered the twitter feed of Brian Moore (he of ex-rugby fame) - he's very anti-Brexit.
Brian Moore is very clear about his views.
<er...>googles<isn't he...didn't he...>
<oldfart>ah! so there's a new one then<showingage>
as you were.

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Re: International travel

Post by sTeamTraen » Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:16 pm

tenchboy wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:26 pm
AMS wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:39 pm

Using the airfield as a lorry holding site has been part of the Brexit plan for bl..dy ages now. Did no one involved at any point think we need (a) toilets (b) catering? Or did the planners not realise that these trucks have drivers?
No. Well no-one 'from Whitehall' just the Sally Army, local and not so local charities, the local football club...
There was quite a bit of talk about toilets a few weeks back (usually referred to as "Portaloos", although actual Portaloos from the Portakabin company is a small prefabricated building --- a lot nicer than one of those moulded polythene phone boxes, known in some circles as "the Turdis"). But I don't recall anyone talking about food. Presumably the expectation was that the drivers would have enough ready meals in their cab to get them through the expected 8-12 hour delays.
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Re: International travel

Post by shpalman » Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:45 pm

https://twitter.com/mojitoBaB/status/13 ... 9986974723
Our town in Spain had an horrendous autumn. An infection rate per 100,000 of 507 that we've now got down to 90. So how angry would you be to find out someone travelled here from a tier 4 area in the UK on Monday & is out eating & drinking in town?
We've asked in town & basically there's not much can be done this end as it's UK rules they've broken. They arrived on the last flight before Portugal stopped entry for non citizens/residents. I'm so bl..dy angry though.
The thing is, when you arrive in Italy, you have to list all the country you've been in for the past two weeks.
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Bird on a Fire
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Re: International travel

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:53 pm

Millennie Al wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:15 am
sTeamTraen wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:58 am
Millennie Al wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:15 am


I'm not going to organise it at all. If it happens it will need to be organised by the people actually doing the work - hauliers etc.
Again, how? At least give us a waffer-theen clue as to how "the hauliers" are going to crowdsource a truck match-up scheme, including appropriate liability insurance. "Someone else can work it out" is the logic of the Brexiteers with their "intelligent Irish border" technology, and of the advocates of "protect the vulnerable, let us go to the pub" school of COVID denialists.
By phoning each other up? Someone senior enough at one firm calls another to say there is a load that needs moving and can they help. If so, they discuss the formalities, such as insurance, liability, and paperwork, agree fees and eventually it happens. Even if it takes weeks to work out enough agreements, the loads would eventually start getting back to normal. Of course, that's as long as there isn't some other major disruptive factor thatthen gets in the way.
Yes, Millennie Al is basically describing freight forwarding, a well established profession. My late dad started as a lorry driver before moving into forwarding, back in the days when he just had a filofax and a map; I imagine that computers might have simplified the task a bit.

However, the fact that firms haven't simply phoned up existing freight forwarding and logistics firms to implement this kind of cargo-swapping suggests that there are perhaps some hidden complications.

Post-Brexit I do wonder if the idea of sending containers sans driver through the chunnel/on boats will come into play, given the UK's apparent keenness on restricting movements of working-class labour. But it probably can't be got up and running in a week, and given that they haven't even sorted toilets and food out yet I won't hold my breath.
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Re: International travel

Post by Millennie Al » Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:34 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:53 pm
However, the fact that firms haven't simply phoned up existing freight forwarding and logistics firms to implement this kind of cargo-swapping suggests that there are perhaps some hidden complications.

Post-Brexit I do wonder if the idea of sending containers sans driver through the chunnel/on boats will come into play, given the UK's apparent keenness on restricting movements of working-class labour. But it probably can't be got up and running in a week, and given that they haven't even sorted toilets and food out yet I won't hold my breath.
I expect that the complications are based on the uncertainty of how long such arrangements will be needed. If it all goes back to normal after 48 hours, then it's still cheaper to just wait it out. And loading and unloading unaccompanied trailers is always a bit slower and more bureaucratic - which is why almost all loads don't go that way. (best case is on ro-ro ferries which have big decks, so one cab can be being detached on one side of the ship while another is manoeuvring into place on the other, and cabs leaving can be fitted into the gaps while the next vehicle is waiting to get in - assuming very few cars, so there is plenty space, which is probably the case right now).
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Re: International travel

Post by shpalman » Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:55 pm

Even Brazil has decided not to let people from the UK in now.
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Re: International travel

Post by shpalman » Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:30 am

molto tricky

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Re: International travel

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:00 am

Portugal is demanding tests, obviously. If you don't have a test certificate when you land, you're detained in the airport and tested through the health service.

Tests in the UK are all over £100, most websites say they're sold out, and all of them say that deliveries around Christmas will be extra slow. No test centres near me that I've found yet, but the fragmented nature of privatised testing means I may have missed one.

Testing in Portugal is €65 and will be done at the airport.
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Re: International travel

Post by shpalman » Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:05 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:00 am
Portugal is demanding tests, obviously. If you don't have a test certificate when you land, you're detained in the airport and tested through the health service.

Tests in the UK are all over £100, most websites say they're sold out, and all of them say that deliveries around Christmas will be extra slow. No test centres near me that I've found yet, but the fragmented nature of privatised testing means I may have missed one.

Testing in Portugal is €65 and will be done at the airport.
Do you have to book the airport test in advance?

Testing didn't seem to be available at Bergamo when I was coming back to Italy (or maybe the rules/facilities literally changed from one day to the next) so I paid a whole load extra for a 24-hour test in England (which nobody at either airport asked for) and booked a test here for when I got back.

Anyone coming back to Italy from the UK now (and only people resident in Italy are allowed in, i.e. Italian citizens resident in the UK have to stay in the UK) if they can get a flight at all, needs a negative test before they leave and a negative test when they arrive and to spend two weeks self-isolating anyway.
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Re: International travel

Post by shpalman » Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:36 am

Lorry backlog clears apparently, although I'll believe it when I see photos of the empty Manston airport and lack of queues on the M20 or wherever they were.
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Re: International travel

Post by lpm » Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:55 am

It's not the leaving that matters, it's whether they'll come back in again. Can't imagine they will be eager to take the next load of cauliflowers into plague island.
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Re: International travel

Post by shpalman » Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:04 pm

shpalman wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:36 am
Lorry backlog clears apparently, although I'll believe it when I see photos of the empty Manston airport and lack of queues on the M20 or wherever they were.
0.23% positivity rate, numbercunts.
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Re: International travel

Post by shpalman » Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:05 pm

lpm wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:55 am
It's not the leaving that matters, it's whether they'll come back in again. Can't imagine they will be eager to take the next load of cauliflowers into plague island.
Meh, that only matters to anyone in the UK who wants to eat.
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Re: International travel

Post by shpalman » Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:49 pm

Fine, I'll be the numbercunt.

Both the UK and Italy have officially had about 3% of their population be covid-positive. Italy peaked in November at 800,000 actual positives but is down to less than 600,000, i.e. about 1% of the population. Italy's new case rate peaked about a week before its actual positives peak, at about 35,000 per day. In terms of new cases per week per 100,000 like what the UK uses that's about 400.

The most recent official number for the UK is 344 new cases per week per 100,000 but it is obviously going up. When Italy had a similar number at the beginning of November on its way up to the second wave peak there were 400,000 actual positives, i.e. 0.7% of the population.

tl;dr 0.23% is maybe a bit low?
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Re: International travel

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:25 pm

What nationality were the drivers?
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Re: International travel

Post by shpalman » Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:34 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:25 pm
What nationality were the drivers?
All sorts of different European ones. But you'd need that both the UK and Italy, which are the two I happen to be following, be substantially worse than the rest of Europe and that lorry drivers in Kent waiting to go to Europe aren't mostly British drivers (I'm assuming they aren't mostly Italian, although there certainly were some.) France has had more than 2.5 million cases, Belgium has had a lot for a country that size although its second wave has been effectively suppressed, the Netherlands hasn't suppressed its second wave so well and is maybe near 500 new cases per week per 100,000...

James Annan's model currently has that about 40% of cases are being detected, so there are actually about 100,000 new cases per day when we detect 40,000. To get an order of magnitude we might assume that a person is infectious for 5 days (some will be less because then they become symptomatic and get tested or at least self-isolate, some will be more because they remain asymptomatic for the whole of the 10-14 days or whatever it is) and if R is close to 1 you'd need 500,000 infectious people to infect 500,000 new people in those 5 days, corresponding to the 100,000 new cases per day.

So, similar to the 400,000 I estimated and substantially more than 0.23% of the population.
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Re: International travel

Post by Brightonian » Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:08 pm

Of 400 Brits quarantining at a Swiss ski resort, half of them have legged it:
https://www.bfmtv.com/international/sui ... 70094.html

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Re: International travel

Post by Little waster » Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:09 pm

Brightonian wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:08 pm
Of 400 Brits quarantining at a Swiss ski resort, half of them have legged it:
https://www.bfmtv.com/international/sui ... 70094.html
Well that’s just lovely.

I’m assuming some sort of Steve McQueen scenario involving a motorbike and some barbed wire fences,
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Re: International travel

Post by shpalman » Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:35 pm

Little waster wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:09 pm
Brightonian wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:08 pm
Of 400 Brits quarantining at a Swiss ski resort, half of them have legged it:
https://www.bfmtv.com/international/sui ... 70094.html
Well that’s just lovely.

I’m assuming some sort of Steve McQueen scenario involving a motorbike and some barbed wire fences,
I'm imagining them being chased down the mountain by henchmen in black on skimobiles.

I'm hoping that they'll be tracked down and punished by the authorities, especially since some of them even had the gall to call the hotel and demand their money back. However, they are now the French's problem. Curious about how they got across the border but I don't know the specific travel and curfew rules over there.

(Valais seems to have had about 200 new cases per 100,000 per week but falling rapidly. https://corona-data.ch/ )
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Re: International travel

Post by sTeamTraen » Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:04 pm

shpalman wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:35 pm
However, they are now the French's problem. Curious about how they got across the border but I don't know the specific travel and curfew rules over there.
They won't be getting much skiing done, as all the lifts are closed on the French side. A lot of people are discovering the delights of cross-country skiing as a result. #1 son, who lives just on the French side of the border near Geneva, is a keen snowboarder and went out with a mate for a couple of runs on a nearby hill; they got fit by walking back up on snowshoes each time.

Currently you need a <72-hour negative PCR test to cross from Switzerland into France if you have been staying "in one of the six cantons where the lifts are open". Until about 3 weeks ago French-speaking Switzerland was having a torrid time, but they got things sort of under control and there are now far more cases in the German-speaking areas*, so I'm not sure what those six cantons are, nor whether there is an actual relation with skiing or if that's just lazy writing.


*So the map that was circulating a while back suggesting that there were cultural reasons why the dirty French speakers were all getting infected and not the bleach-scrubbing German speakers turned out to be bollocks, as I expected.
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Re: International travel

Post by shpalman » Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:15 pm

Brightonian wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:08 pm
Of 400 Brits quarantining at a Swiss ski resort, half of them have legged it:
https://www.bfmtv.com/international/sui ... 70094.html
Only about 12 Britons stay in quarantine in Swiss ski resort after hundreds flee
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Re: International travel

Post by Gfamily » Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:17 pm

Brightonian wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:08 pm
Of 400 Brits quarantining at a Swiss ski resort, half of them have legged it:
https://www.bfmtv.com/international/sui ... 70094.html
May have been some mis-reporting, and they would have had permission to leave.
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Re: International travel

Post by shpalman » Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:50 am

On Christmas Day, hundreds of unmasked backpackers were seen drinking, dancing and singing in the park next to Bronte Beach, which neighbours the famous Bondi Beach in east Sydney.
Holiday parties among backpackers in the tourist hotspot have been a common occurrence in other years.

Witnesses told the BBC they believed the majority were from the UK or "not Australian".

"You could hear lots of clearly English accents, and several people were wearing the white English football jerseys"
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Re: International travel

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:32 am

Hmmm. There's loads of Brit expats in Oz - surely they outnumber tourists at the mo? Not sure accents are a particularly reliable indicator of recent arrival.
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