Scrutable

Opti wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:29 am

Sister-in-law was supposed to be visiting us for a week starting on Thursday. Of course, she's tested +ve for Covid.
Went to the pantomime at the weekend with her daughter and grandaughter. Well, she was coming from the UK, so not really a big surprise.
She's triple-jabbed.

This is what's good about the UK approach. It means grandma, mum and granddaughter can go to the pantomime together. Exactly the sort of thing that should get priority.

If you could formulate it, making international travel for holidays hard and international travel to see close family easy, would be preferable to lumping them together.

sTeamTraen wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:11 pm

Opti wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:29 am

Sister-in-law was supposed to be visiting us for a week starting on Thursday. Of course, she's tested +ve for Covid.
Went to the pantomime at the weekend with her daughter and grandaughter. Well, she was coming from the UK, so not really a big surprise.
She's triple-jabbed.

Really needed a reason to have a good clean-up. Oh dear. How sad. Never mind.

Omicron? (There's presumably a way to make a humorous response to that, along the lines of "No, she went of her own accord".)

Actually, I suppose you should be glad she cancelled. I suspect that a lot of multi-jabbed people will be travelling and hoping to not get too badly ill, at least until everywhere imposes a vaccine *plus* test requirement. EU countries seem to be mostly holding the line on vaccine *or* test, certainly for intra-EU travel. When this is over (yes yes I know) the EU will have to have some interesting discussions about pooled sovereignty and public health.

Entering the UK from the EU is currently vaccine+test, in the sense that being fully vaccinated allows you to skip some of the testing and self-isolation but not all of it (to summarize your changelog.txt, something like a pre-departure LFT and PCR within two days of arriving and self-isolation until you get the negative result but no need to self-isolate until another test on day 8); Entering Italy from the UK is also vaccine+test, in the sense that being both fully vaccinated and having done a pre-departure test (PCR or Lateral Flow but can't be a self-test) allows you to avoid self-isolating for five days with another test at the end of that period.

Over the summer I enjoyed my intra-EU freedom to travel, but the only place I got checked was when sitting down for lunch on the way through Austria and then at the border entering Slovakia (because they had a local kind of PLF for arrivals and I just showed that I'd done it to the relieved young border guard).

On the way out of Slovakia, the Austrian border guards were stopping the Slovak-registered cars but let me through. I presume they wanted to check vaccination status of the Slovaks trying to enter Austria, knowing how low the takeup was (and still is).

I did a PLF for re-entering Italy by car and hit my time slot to within a few minutes but nobody cared about that either, possibly because I entered via a local border crossing rather than the one on the motorway.

Case rates were of course much lower on the continent over the summer.

lpm wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:35 pm

Opti wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:29 am

Sister-in-law was supposed to be visiting us for a week starting on Thursday. Of course, she's tested +ve for Covid.
Went to the pantomime at the weekend with her daughter and grandaughter. Well, she was coming from the UK, so not really a big surprise.
She's triple-jabbed.

This is what's good about the UK approach. It means grandma, mum and granddaughter can go to the pantomime together and catch covid. Exactly the sort of thing that should get priority.

Who's not making it a priority?

lpm wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:35 pm

If you could formulate it, making international travel for holidays hard and international travel to see close family easy, would be preferable to lumping them together.

It would require self-declaring why you're making the trip, which is the sort of thing which the British forget where they left their excrement over.

A year ago I was able to come to the UK for my dad's funeral and I was able to come back to Italy because you should always be allowed to go home; Alpha became a thing just over two weeks later and at that point even Italian citizens who were not actually resident in Italy weren't allowed back in for Christmas.

shpalman wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:43 pm

lpm wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:35 pm

Opti wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:29 am

Sister-in-law was supposed to be visiting us for a week starting on Thursday. Of course, she's tested +ve for Covid.
Went to the pantomime at the weekend with her daughter and grandaughter. Well, she was coming from the UK, so not really a big surprise.
She's triple-jabbed.

This is what's good about the UK approach. It means grandma, mum and granddaughter can go to the pantomime together and catch covid. Exactly the sort of thing that should get priority.

Who's not making it a priority?

Well in a lot of places grandma and mum (and the rest of the adult audience) might have to show some proof of vaccination/negative test, suggesting that they're deprioritising the "catch covid" part.

I think it's great to keep these kinds of important traditions alive. I love a good covid panto at the best of times, and Omi is such a good villain. "She's behind you!" (And in front of you, next to you, above you, in the bar, the queue for the toilet and on the train home...)

Just what I was looking for. Quite interesting. Let me book mark them.

My brother's fretting about how to get from England to Ireland without a PCR test.

Let me explain though. My brother doesn't mind getting a PCR test - he gets tested all the time. The problem is actually with his son. However, his son doesn't mind the PCR test either. The problem is that his son will fly in to England from Denmark or Sweden two days before flying on to Ireland with my brother.

Now, his son could simply get his "Day 2" PCR test on arrival at the aiport in England. However, my brother reports that there are delays getting PCR results, saying a colleague has still not had her result four days (WTF??) after getting tested. So my brother's thinking of every permutation, such as getting my nephew to fly straight to Ireland, or to fly earlier to England, and so on. The latest cunning plan is that he and his son would drive to Scotland, get the ferry across to Northern Ireland, and drive down into the Republic. Seems you don't get asked for a test result if you're travelling within the UK, and the NI/Republic border is porous.

Brightonian wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:53 pm

The latest cunning plan is that he and his son would drive to Scotland, get the ferry across to Northern Ireland, and drive down into the Republic. Seems you don't get asked for a test result if you're travelling within the UK, and the NI/Republic border is porous.

We went to NI in November via Scotland & the ferry. They didn't even check id, let alone ask for a test result. (However, the ferry company were reccommending an LFT before getting on the ferry, then 2 & 8 days after - which is what the NI guidelines are. Everyone on the ferry was masked, except for those few hardy souls braving the deck for a ciggie, and everyone was pretty good about distancing as much as possible.)

I can't speak to how easy it is to cross into Ireland. I think they were requiring some passenger-locator style forms & maybe some testing, not sure.

If they want to keep an eye on the rules in case things change:https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/co ... ravel-area

Brightonian wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:53 pm

The problem is that his son will fly in to England from Denmark or Sweden two days before flying on to Ireland with my brother.

Now, his son could simply get his "Day 2" PCR test on arrival at the aiport in England.

Has the son been vaccinated? According to https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/77952 ... al-travel/ if you're vaccinated you can meet the requirement by having an antigen test and, since they produce results within an hour, if there's a problem you have time to try again. Note that it must be an approved test and it must be done professionally - you can't test yourself. I think places like Boots and Lloys might do them (pre-booking required).

Arrivals to Ireland from the UK should do daily tests for the first five days as well. You might want to pack some antigen tests with you.

temptar wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:54 pm

Arrivals to Ireland from the UK should do daily tests for the first five days as well. You might want to pack some antigen tests with you.

Being voluntary and self-administered, I wonder how many will actually do them. 1 in 5? 1 in 50? And of those, how many will be done competently? 2 in 3? 1 in 3? The purpose is to pick up cases of Omicron arriving into Ireland, so if they pick up zero Omicrons, how will that number be interpreted? That there's no problem at all?

Brightonian wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:23 pm

temptar wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:54 pm

Arrivals to Ireland from the UK should do daily tests for the first five days as well. You might want to pack some antigen tests with you.

Being voluntary and self-administered, I wonder how many will actually do them. 1 in 5? 1 in 50? And of those, how many will be done competently? 2 in 3? 1 in 3? The purpose is to pick up cases of Omicron arriving into Ireland, so if they pick up zero Omicrons, how will that number be interpreted? That there's no problem at all?

Edit, sorry, not having a go at you, just my frustration with the Irish government. My father reckons they're afraid of the hospitality industry, so allowing pubs etc. to stay open.

raven wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:02 am

I can't speak to how easy it is to cross into Ireland. I think they were requiring some passenger-locator style forms & maybe some testing, not sure.

In previous versions of the rules, Ireland has basically not bothered with people who fly into Belfast and cross the border. Under the new rules, people who arrive in Ireland from outside, even having just flown into Belfast from Malaga or Edinburgh, are required to have a test as well as a vaccine. This was described as "no CTA exception" when these rules were announced a week or so ago. However, there is an exception for anyone who has been in Northern Ireland for the past two weeks.

The border is pretty porous because setting up checkpoints of any kind would not go down well with The Lads. Maybe if you drive down the M1 you might be unlucky. But your chances of getting stopped, say, here are homeopathic. I visited that spot once and saw a woman come out of the second house on the right (which is in Ireland), walk across the bridge to her parked car (which was in NI but facing Ireland), and then because the road is narrow she drove over the bridge into Ireland before doing a 3-point turn in her friend's drive, then driving off back into NI.

sTeamTraen wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:52 pm

Maybe if you drive down the M1 you might be unlucky. But your chances of getting stopped, say, here are homeopathic.

I can well believe it. It was pretty quiet most places while we were there. (Except for Derry on Halloween...) Day we drove back, the M2 was absolutely deserted. Ok, it was a Sunday, but the motorways in England were absolutely chocker in contrast.

Well I'm in the UK. Nice to see everyone wearing masks on the train, but the passport e-gate didn't check my locator form or test certificate funnily enough.

Welcome back!

Sorry for the state of things.

Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 11, 2021 12:19 am

Well I'm in the UK. Nice to see everyone wearing masks on the train

Are you sure you're in the UK?

jdc wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:34 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 11, 2021 12:19 am

Well I'm in the UK. Nice to see everyone wearing masks on the train

Are you sure you're in the UK?

Yes. But it was the train from Gatwick so maybe they were all foreigners like me, terrified of breathing diseased British air.

The guard was continually repeating that it's now government rules, as well.

Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 11, 2021 12:19 am

Well I'm in the UK. Nice to see everyone wearing masks on the train, but the passport e-gate didn't check my locator form or test certificate funnily enough.

Shall we all come round your gaff for a banging party to welcome you home?

We've hand to cancel a long ago booked Canaries holiday because the BJNlettes can't satisfy the new double jabbed Spanish entry requirements. On top of that we're getting rather nervous about Omi. It was meant to be a post chemo recovery treat for MrsBJN, so it is quite gutting for us, as it was the thing we talked about all the time while she was going through treatment.

Well that's a f.cking bummer. Sorry to hear that mate.

Party at BoaF Towers it is, then.

(A few months ago I was hoping to propose a meat-up this Chrimbo, as I've never made one. I think online will be a better option now.)

Friend of mine just texted to say he's tested positive too. So that's one less person to meet in the pub.

Nigeria bans flights from the UK

(I'm taking the headline a bit out of context)

As the UK decides to not bother with a red list anymore since Omicron obviously already got in, Italy imposes mandatory testing for all EU arrivals.

Italy will tighten restrictions for arrivals from the rest of the EU from Thursday, requiring coronavirus tests of everyone and a five-day quarantine for those who are not vaccinated, AFP reports.

The rules were more or less already this for coming from the UK anyway. We're currently not doing too bad in terms of case rates in the localized Western-European scheme of things.

France is now requiring pre-travel tests
- within 24 hours of departure for unvaxxed*
- within 48 hours of departure for vaxxed

Self testing not allowed.

*As UK is an Amber List country,
also for unvaxxed...
+ certificate to explain essential reason for travel
+ self isolation for 7 days followed by -ve test

whether vaxxed or not...
+ sworn statement of no symptoms

Time to close the borders for at least three months.

I'm not convinced closing borders to vaxxed passengers with negative tests makes much difference, certainly compared with domestic restrictions.