Scrutable

Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:47 pm

I'm not convinced closing borders to vaxxed passengers with negative tests makes much difference, certainly compared with domestic restrictions.

Vaxxed passengers with negative tests can be infective within 24 hours as Omicron moves so fast. Too much hair splitting going on. It would be simpler and more effective to close borders to everybody as was done in March 2020.
Mobility is a risk factor, It must be reduced.

Pubs and restaurants etc first, surely? They're currently open with no restrictions in the UK.

Long distance travel can be essential, or at least very important (eg migrant workers who haven't seen their families all year). There's no such justification for having a pint and a scotch egg indoors.

Trying to pin a large share of the blame on foreigners is unpleasant, as well as ineffective.

Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:05 pm

Pubs and restaurants etc first, surely? They're currently open with no restrictions in the UK.

Long distance travel can be essential, or at least very important (eg migrant workers who haven't seen their families all year). There's no such justification for having a pint and a scotch egg indoors.

Trying to pin a large share of the blame on foreigners is unpleasant, as well as ineffective.

Its not the fault of foreigners. Closing the borders is a way of reducing mobility.
I agree with domestic restrictions. Chilean style total lockdown , every non essential worker allowed two hours outside of home, twice a week.

Herainestold wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:44 pm

Time to close the borders for at least three months.

Presumably you mean in order to stop the UK epidemic spreading to the rest of the world?

lpm wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 15, 2021 5:23 pm

Herainestold wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:44 pm

Time to close the borders for at least three months.

Presumably you mean in order to stop the UK epidemic spreading to the rest of the world?

Just to reduce mobility. It goes both ways as you have so ably pointed out

lpm wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 15, 2021 5:23 pm

Herainestold wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:44 pm

Time to close the borders for at least three months.

Presumably you mean in order to stop the UK epidemic spreading to the rest of the world?

Yes and to stop them bringing covid here too.

Herainestold wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 15, 2021 5:48 pm

lpm wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 15, 2021 5:23 pm

Herainestold wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:44 pm

Time to close the borders for at least three months.

Presumably you mean in order to stop the UK epidemic spreading to the rest of the world?

Just to reduce mobility. It goes both ways as you have so ably pointed out

But mobility is also a risk locally*. Why focus on stopping rare international mobility instead of common local mobility?

*Well, it isn't, but infected people being mobile between areas with uninfected people is, especially if you don't require tests or masks to reduce the spread.

Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:18 pm

Herainestold wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 15, 2021 5:48 pm

lpm wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 15, 2021 5:23 pm

Presumably you mean in order to stop the UK epidemic spreading to the rest of the world?

Just to reduce mobility. It goes both ways as you have so ably pointed out

But mobility is also a risk locally*. Why focus on stopping rare international mobility instead of common local mobility?

*Well, it isn't, but infected people being mobile between areas with uninfected people is, especially if you don't require tests or masks to reduce the spread.

I am in favour of more severe restrictions including limitations on domestic mobility.

Brits banned from France. We'll have to sneak in with our Irish passports.

They've got a nerve.

Treating us like a plague island.

Just because we're an island full of plague.

Rude.

"The closure of the French border to tourists is “devastating” for UK citizens who work in the French ski and seasonal businesses sector."

No, the plague on plague island is “devastating” for UK citizens, including those who work in the French ski and seasonal businesses sector

I thought Brexit was devastating for the ski resort thing....

temptar wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:05 am

I thought Brexit was devastating for the ski resort thing....

Why not both!

Brightonian wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:02 am

Brits banned from France.

Stuart Coles and his family were due to fly to La Tania in France for a skiing holiday over Christmas on 19 December but have had to cancel their trip due to the new restrictions.

He told Sky News that all of his family's Christmas plans "have been thrown into turmoil" and his three kids are "heartbroken".

Mr Coles is now trying to get as much money back for the trip, having "splashed out on nice accommodation", skiing lessons for the kids, as well as COVID-19 tests, to enter France and return to the UK.

"The biggest thing is the disappointment and disruption it causes, the kids are heartbroken. This was a holiday we were supposed to go on last Christmas and its been rolled into this year," he said.

"I understand the measures to an extent but I do feel frustrated. I thought we were reaching the stage where people were making their own decisions and risk assessments.

Oh no! I mean, who could possibly have predicted that there might be disruption to travel, with the UK having had at least 30,000 cases a day for the past 5 months? So random. So arbitrary. You'd have had to be psychic to imagine that such a thing could happen.

Asked if he would book a holiday again, Mr Coles said that he will but acknowledged that the uncertainty "does put other people".

The uncertainty does indeed put other people, Stuart. Wise words.

The fairest thing is to stop all non-essential travel. Those wealthy people who booked ski holidays will have to eat the cost. Too bad.

Brightonian wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:02 am

Brits banned from France. We'll have to sneak in with our Irish passports.

As far as I can see it's travel from UK that's not being allowed* irrespective of your nationality


* Any travel from an Amber country now has to be 'for an essential purpose' unless you're a French resident.

We had been looking at going over in early April for a couple of weeks, but won't book anything for the time being.

Gfamily wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:33 am

Brightonian wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:02 am

Brits banned from France. We'll have to sneak in with our Irish passports.

As far as I can see it's travel from UK that's not being allowed* irrespective of your nationality


* Any travel from an Amber country now has to be 'for an essential purpose' unless you're a French resident.

We had been looking at going over in early April for a couple of weeks, but won't book anything for the time being.

Yes, I was deliberately being a bit clickbaity. Personally I'd promised to go to France next month, but on seeing that news story I started to think of travelling from Ireland instead. Though in the back of my mind I'm thinking pretty much all travel is going to be banned anyway.

My brother reckons he and his son are still probably coming to Ireland for Christmas, even though my father has said that while he'd really like to see them they're not obliged to come.

German govt considers classifying Britain as “virus variant area”

Under German COVID rules, travellers returning from virus variant areas must quarantine for two weeks, even if they are vaccinated.

shpalman wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:01 pm

German govt considers classifying Britain as “virus variant area”

Under German COVID rules, travellers returning from virus variant areas must quarantine for two weeks, even if they are vaccinated.

I do not think they will, as it is not the federal government that is asking for this, but at the moment I am half hoping they do to give me an excuse to cancel my plans.

Does anyone here know what the situation is for UK citizens trying to drive down through France to get to their second homes in Spain? Can they do it?

I'm having fun watching a bunch of snowbirds losing their sh.t on local FB groups. "It's not fair".

Opti wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:30 pm

Does anyone here know what the situation is for UK citizens trying to drive down through France to get to their second homes in Spain? Can they do it?

I'm having fun watching a bunch of snowbirds losing their sh.t on local FB groups. "It's not fair".

I think only transit at an international airport is allowed.

There are ferries to Santander and Bilbao from UK - Santander has the most amazingly located ferry port.

Thanks, I thought that was the case. Strangely, just about all of the 2nd homers will do anything to avoid driving down through central Spain.

There has to be a way to announce travel restrictions which doesn't give morons the chance to rush to get in before them surely.

Opti wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:30 pm

Does anyone here know what the situation is for UK citizens trying to drive down through France to get to their second homes in Spain? Can they do it?

I'm having fun watching a bunch of snowbirds losing their sh.t on local FB groups. "It's not fair".

The list of exceptions is linked from this page. It has two columns, one for people going to the UK (which is also regulated by the latest French rules) and one for people arriving from the UK.

There are various categories of exceptions, based on jobs, circumstances, citizenship, and residence. In the combination of the latter two, people allowed into France are:
- French citizens and their immediate family
- Residents of France
- Non-French EU/EEA/CH citizens who are both (a) resident in an EU/EEA/CH country other than France and (b) in transit to their home. (This is already quite a step by France; it means that German people living in the UK cannot, in principle, drive home to see their family for Christmas. EU countries are usually reluctant to restrict the movement of other EU citizens.)
- UK citizens covered by the Withdrawal Agreement. By definition, those people are residents of an EU country. Interestingly, the clause for these people does not say that they have to be in transit to their home. Thus, on a strict reading of the letter of the rules as written, a family of British people who live in Spain and are in the UK for the Christmas holiday period could drive to a French ski resort for a few days. However, I suspect that this degree of nitpicking will not fly at the border.

For going to the UK, there are exceptions if you are going to the funeral or likely deathbed of a close family member. Even this exception is not included for entering France.

Everything that is not explicitly authorised, including tourism or any form (going to your second home counts as tourism), is excluded. Sorry, swallows (that seems to be the more common name for snowbirds, which seems reasonable given that they are not fleeing very much snow... although neither are people from Toronto or the US Mid-West this winter. )

shpalman wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:35 pm

There has to be a way to announce travel restrictions which doesn't give morons the chance to rush to get in before them surely.

Not really. Apart from anything else it takes time to get the legislation through and the news distributed; these measures were pre-announced on Thursday morning but only formalised later that day. The aim has to be to reduce the numbers, knowing that you will never get them to zero.