Back to school

Covid-19 discussion, bring your own statistics
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JQH
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Re: Back to school

Post by JQH » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:28 pm

OffTheRock wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:00 pm
FFS. Because we’re determined to lurch from one cock up to the next it appears the food boxes that replaced the vouchers for children on FSM don’t contain £30 of food to last a fortnight. Or anywhere near it.
This needs wider publicity.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

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jimbob
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Re: Back to school

Post by jimbob » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:32 pm

OffTheRock wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:00 pm
FFS. Because we’re determined to lurch from one cock up to the next it appears the food boxes that replaced the vouchers for children on FSM don’t contain £30 of food to last a fortnight. Or anywhere near it. I’m guessing a company run by a friend of someone in the cabinet are creaming off the extra money rather than providing food for children.
Indeed, and see Jack Munroe's tweets on the subject including this of one

https://twitter.com/BootstrapCook/statu ... 65029?s=20 from this thread:
#FreeSchoolMeals bag for 10 days:

2 days jacket potato with beans
8 single cheese sandwiches

2 days carrots
3 days apples
2 days soreen
3 days frubes

Spare pasta & tomato. Will need mayo for pasta salad.

Issued instead of £30 vouchers. I could do more with £30 to be honest.
Chartwells
@Chartwells_UK
·
3h
Thank you for bringing this to our attention, this does not reflect the specification of one of our hampers. Please can you DM us the details of the school that your child attends and we will investigate immediately.
Jack Monroe
@BootstrapCook
Replying to
@Chartwells_UK
and
@RoadsideMum
With all due respect, this isn’t the only photo in circulation. Perhaps you could clarify the situation by posting a pic of what your food parcels -should- look like? Because I’ve had hundreds of pics that look just like this one. Over to you.
10:56 PM · Jan 11, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
138
Retweets
8
Quote Tweets
1K
Likes
Jack Monroe
@BootstrapCook
·
30m
Replying to
@BootstrapCook

@Chartwells_UK
and
@RoadsideMum
And some of those pics have been sent by people saying they are your own employees, FYI. And no I’m not giving you their details. Some of them say they have been furloughed and are receiving these themselves so can vouch for the accuracy of this. Do you dispute this?
And her pinned tweet thread:

https://twitter.com/BootstrapCook/statu ... 44033?s=20
Hi all. I’ve been sent LOTS of photos of the food parcels that have replaced the £30 vouchers and asked what I would do with them. I’m replying with advice privately because to do so publicly would look like justifying these ill thought through, offensively meagre scraps /1.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Gfamily
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Re: Back to school

Post by Gfamily » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:51 pm

Ninja'd

A f.cking disgrace!
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

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JQH
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Re: Back to school

Post by JQH » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:47 am

Certainly is! A poster calculated that that lot would cost you £5.22 at Asda. Somebody is making a very tidy profit out of hunger. I'm seething.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

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mediocrity511
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Re: Back to school

Post by mediocrity511 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:13 am

It is unfortunately what happened with shielding people when the provision was food parcels instead of priority delivery slots. It may even have been Chartwells who were implicated. They charged the government about £50 for something much worse quality than the Morrison's £30 food boxes.

It's just offensive. We know these school closures are for the long haul, we know families are really struggling right now and we know it's really cold and it costs a bomb to keep a warm home with the kids at home all day every day. I'm not totally opposed to food parcels, as a crisis measure whilst vouchers are sorted, or if there are specific reasons why a parcel is more appropriate (thinking like very rural areas with no public transport). But it's not meant to be just about literally preventing starvation, kids need nutritious food to enable them to concentrate and learn, as well as help them grow.

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Re: Back to school

Post by bagpuss » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:31 am

mediocrity511 wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:13 am
It is unfortunately what happened with shielding people when the provision was food parcels instead of priority delivery slots. It may even have been Chartwells who were implicated. They charged the government about £50 for something much worse quality than the Morrison's £30 food boxes.

It's just offensive. We know these school closures are for the long haul, we know families are really struggling right now and we know it's really cold and it costs a bomb to keep a warm home with the kids at home all day every day. I'm not totally opposed to food parcels, as a crisis measure whilst vouchers are sorted, or if there are specific reasons why a parcel is more appropriate (thinking like very rural areas with no public transport). But it's not meant to be just about literally preventing starvation, kids need nutritious food to enable them to concentrate and learn, as well as help them grow.
It really is utterly bl..dy appalling. I'd like to say I'm shocked but I'm just not any more. I'm fuming angry but it's just what I now expect out of the way our current government and their big business cronies work, sadly.

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Re: Back to school

Post by Ladysavage » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:25 am

Our local community centre is running free meals during lockdown. They're available for anyone and (I think) sponsored by donations from local businesses. The local chippies are also giving kids free lunches. It's not ideal but a damn sight better than the patronising box of food being doled out.

I've taken this week off work to "teach" Boobshark. So far we've learned about Islam, spherefication, 3D shapes and done PE with Joe. We're also arguing a lot. My child is a right smartarse and I owe his teacher a big bottle of gin!

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Re: Back to school

Post by Little waster » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:42 pm

But the local government minister Simon Clarke, who voted against giving vouchers to help feed children during the school holidays, citing the billions the government had put into the welfare system during the pandemic, appeared to accuse the England star of “seeking to whip a storm up on Twitter”.
Simon Clarke eats big dinners.
It's meta, so it is allowed.

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jimbob
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Re: Back to school

Post by jimbob » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:01 pm

Little waster wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:42 pm
But the local government minister Simon Clarke, who voted against giving vouchers to help feed children during the school holidays, citing the billions the government had put into the welfare system during the pandemic, appeared to accuse the England star of “seeking to whip a storm up on Twitter”.
Simon Clarke eats big dinners.
I'm really not sure that it's clever to attack possibly the most popular man in England.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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JQH
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Re: Back to school

Post by JQH » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:22 am

jimbob wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:01 pm
Little waster wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:42 pm
But the local government minister Simon Clarke, who voted against giving vouchers to help feed children during the school holidays, citing the billions the government had put into the welfare system during the pandemic, appeared to accuse the England star of “seeking to whip a storm up on Twitter”.
Simon Clarke eats big dinners.
I'm really not sure that it's clever to attack possibly the most popular man in England.
Judging by what I am seeing on Facebook, there are still plenty of morons prepared to attack the parents of kids on free school meals. Maybe Clarke thinks there is mileage in attacking their defender.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

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Re: Back to school

Post by tom p » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:04 pm

JQH wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:22 am
jimbob wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:01 pm
Little waster wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:42 pm


Simon Clarke eats big dinners.
I'm really not sure that it's clever to attack possibly the most popular man in England.
Judging by what I am seeing on Facebook, there are still plenty of morons prepared to attack the parents of kids on free school meals. Maybe Clarke thinks there is mileage in attacking their defender.
Rashford is a striker, not a defender

OffTheRock
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Re: Back to school

Post by OffTheRock » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:23 pm

So Chartwells have had their wrists slapped, food vouchers are back, so today seems like the perfect day to announce you won’t be providing free school meals over February half term. There will almost certainly be a u-turn on this because they did on two previous occasions but why do they keep doing this? I know they don’t care about poor kids, but it’s an easy popularity boost for them. Very few people even amongst their own voters disagree with it.

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Re: Back to school

Post by shpalman » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:53 pm

molto tricky

OffTheRock
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Re: Back to school

Post by OffTheRock » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:59 pm

There’s a surprise. Not before one or two businesses decided to run with the idea for their staff though.

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Re: Back to school

Post by shpalman » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:04 pm

I'm not completely sure about "a negative test giving a false sense of security" if the alternative is no tests at all and people just going ahead with whatever they were going to do anyway.
molto tricky

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bolo
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Re: Back to school

Post by bolo » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:05 pm

Vaccination was opened up to school staff today where I am.

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mediocrity511
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Re: Back to school

Post by mediocrity511 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:14 pm

shpalman wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:04 pm
I'm not completely sure about "a negative test giving a false sense of security" if the alternative is no tests at all and people just going ahead with whatever they were going to do anyway.
The problem with the schools plan is that it was going to replace self isolation of close contacts with daily lateral flow testing. So yeah, I think letting people exposed to covid go about their daily business instead of self isolating probably is false confidence!

Using lateral flows in school, for people not exposed to covid and with no symptoms as an extra levep ofmsecurity would be a sensible use.

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Re: Back to school

Post by OffTheRock » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:22 pm

mediocrity511 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:14 pm
shpalman wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:04 pm
I'm not completely sure about "a negative test giving a false sense of security" if the alternative is no tests at all and people just going ahead with whatever they were going to do anyway.
The problem with the schools plan is that it was going to replace self isolation of close contacts with daily lateral flow testing. So yeah, I think letting people exposed to covid go about their daily business instead of self isolating probably is false confidence!

Using lateral flows in school, for people not exposed to covid and with no symptoms as an extra levep ofmsecurity would be a sensible use.
This is pretty much how we use them in the NHS. Use them twice a week at home unless you are symptomatic in which case you book a PCR test instead. If you are a close contact you still have to isolate for 10 days.

In the schools if you are a close contact you don’t isolate you just carry on going into school for a test and then get sent home if it comes back positive. Which is probably a bit late if you’ve travelled in on a school bus or public bus. Or been standing around in the school hall waiting for a test tbh.

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Fishnut
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Re: Back to school

Post by Fishnut » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:38 pm

This is excellent piece from the BMJ, though the headline isn't restricted to schools: we need strategy, not just ad hoc responses

I feel exhausted on behalf of parents and teachers just reading the first paragraph. I can't imagine what it must be like dealing with it:
One of the problems in commenting on schools policy during the pandemic is that it changes so quickly and so often that it can be hard to know exactly what the policy is from one day to the next. On Sunday 3 January, the UK prime minister, Boris Johnson, declared that schools were safe. On the Monday his government closed all schools in England. On the Tuesday, they published a list of key workers whose children were exempt from the closure, which was so broadly drawn that, on the Wednesday and Thursday, one in six primary schools reported that 30% of pupils were in attendance and around one in eight said that at least half of the roll were coming to school. On Friday, the guidance was revised to stress that children of critical workers should stay at home if they can.
Further on it notes,
Whether in March, in November, before Christmas, or now in January, there has been a consistent pattern whereby the scientific community has warned of a looming crisis, the government has delayed its response until we are in the crisis, and then has imposed emergency measures to bring infections under control. It has always been reactive, behind the virus. What has never happened is the proactive formulation of a comprehensive strategy to bring down infections and keep them down. Unlike other countries, such as Taiwan, South Korea, Australia, or New Zealand, we have never got ahead or on top of the pandemic. Hence we continue to yo-yo in and out of restrictions with the consequent damage to both our health and our economy.
it's okay to say "I don't know"

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Re: Back to school

Post by OffTheRock » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:21 pm

[[https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... sting-plan]]

Looks like the government might have been asked to pilot replacing isolation with daily testing but decided to pilot rolling out a testing system instead. And then just introduced the daily testing without regulatory approval anyway.

Not sure why SAGE seemed to think this would only lead to a small rise in transmission.

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Re: Back to school

Post by bagpuss » Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:31 am

OffTheRock wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:22 pm
mediocrity511 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:14 pm
shpalman wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:04 pm
I'm not completely sure about "a negative test giving a false sense of security" if the alternative is no tests at all and people just going ahead with whatever they were going to do anyway.
The problem with the schools plan is that it was going to replace self isolation of close contacts with daily lateral flow testing. So yeah, I think letting people exposed to covid go about their daily business instead of self isolating probably is false confidence!

Using lateral flows in school, for people not exposed to covid and with no symptoms as an extra levep ofmsecurity would be a sensible use.
This is pretty much how we use them in the NHS. Use them twice a week at home unless you are symptomatic in which case you book a PCR test instead. If you are a close contact you still have to isolate for 10 days.

In the schools if you are a close contact you don’t isolate you just carry on going into school for a test and then get sent home if it comes back positive. Which is probably a bit late if you’ve travelled in on a school bus or public bus. Or been standing around in the school hall waiting for a test tbh.
Re the bit I bolded. Not according to Track & Trace :roll: . Friend in the NHS and I were both identified as close contacts of the same person before Christmas. I was, correctly, advised to self-isolate, as were Mr Bagpuss and the bagkitten as we had all been close to her at different times on the same day. Friend in the NHS was told that as long as her lateral flow tests continued to be negative she was fine to go out and about. :shock:

I mean, she didn't, because she's not a dick, but she was specifically told that she could when on the gov.uk site it specifically says that you still self-isolate, even after a negative PCR test.

OffTheRock
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Re: Back to school

Post by OffTheRock » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:19 am

As far as I know that isn’t our trust’s position on it. Possibly it varies from trust to trust or Test & Trace are wrong. Seems a bit risky given that maintaining social distance while working in a hospital is difficult and LF tests aren’t daily.

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Re: Back to school

Post by OffTheRock » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:30 am

I’ve just checked with a friend in our hospital. Definitely still have to isolate.

I wonder whether your friend would have been given different advice by her Occupational Health department.

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Re: Back to school

Post by FlammableFlower » Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:29 am

I know it's easy when you're not in the firing line... but...

Back last April I'd pontificated to MrsFF about how the DfE should be aiming to get all schools set up for as much remote learning as possible as even after lockdown #1 life the virus wasn't going to disappear and life go back to normal. For that I thought that they should:

1. Requisition parts of the digital TV frequency - i.e. pay companies to 'rent' their channels and use that for educational programming
2. Get schools to audit their pupils digital access and then go on a shopping spree for devices. They could even be loaned out with the proviso, it's free as long as we get it back intact, otherwise you're liable for £x.

9 months later they've got a few hours on CBBC and BBC2 and Gav has been crowing about getting hold of a few 100,000 laptops - of which many of them don't have cameras or sound cards - which makes them pretty useless for live teaching, although fine for asynchronous learning.

My 2 are in year 10 and 12. The year 10 has almost no live teaching and it's all just work set online with deadlines. She's finding this incredibly difficult, particularly getting over the barrier to email to ask for help. She finding the lack of support both from staff and having her peers there very hard. The year 12 however has all live lessons, except it turns out with the lack of planning and prep, the teachers really aren't coping well (at least to begin with, we'll see how it pans out).

I don't blame the staff in the slightest - as with everything in this pandemic, it's lack of vision and preparedness by our government that leaves us constantly having to deal with problems as we come across them instead of having been able to think about it ahead of time and prepare.

bagpuss
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Re: Back to school

Post by bagpuss » Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:04 am

OffTheRock wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:19 am
As far as I know that isn’t our trust’s position on it. Possibly it varies from trust to trust or Test & Trace are wrong. Seems a bit risky given that maintaining social distance while working in a hospital is difficult and LF tests aren’t daily.
It was (probably the individual from) Track & Trace getting it spectacularly wrong, I'm pretty certain. Not anyone's position or policy. I was pretty shocked that they were giving out such advice.

Our experience of T&T was pretty rubbish all round, in fact. Contact gave the names of 5 adults to T&T - me, Mr Bagpuss and 3 others. She also said that we had children who were also in contact but did not give those names. In at least 2 cases, one being me, the calls started "May I speak to the parent or guardian of [adult name]". On being told that the individual speaking was, in fact, the person of that name, they failed to pick up on the error and only realised when told the date of birth of [adult name]. From that point on, in my case they wanted only the details of the child, told us that the child had to self-isolate, at no point tried to mention any other contacts in the household or tell us that we needed to self-isolate, even though they had those details too. For the other family where I know the details of the call, the other adult who had not been in contact with the plague-carrier was told that they should sleep on the sofa. Now, it is true that the advice is that the contacts of plague-carrier should isolate within the house from the non-contacts, where possible, and then the non-contact(s) can go out. But it makes no sense whatsoever for the non-contact to be told to sleep on the sofa unless the contacts were told to remain in their rooms the whole time, which they were not. It was much much easier for them to just do the same as us and all self-isolate, which they did.

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