Back to school

Covid-19 discussion, bring your own statistics
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mediocrity511
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Re: Back to school

Post by mediocrity511 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:51 pm

OffTheRock wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:39 pm
Unison are backing the section 44 walk out for non-teaching staff. The NEU are pointing out that you don't have to be a member and can use their letter with a few adjustments. NASUWT have advised their members not to walk out because they might get sacked if they do. The onus is on heads to prove the schools are safe and the NAHT seems to be telling members not to because they aren't going to be able to prove it. Birmingham have told schools that they will have their backing if they do shut and Brighton and Hove have told their schools not to open. Add that to parents deciding to keep their children at home and the whole thing is a complete mess.

Difficult to see how they are going to get out of this without a u-turn. Either a really last minute one or one after all the schools are shut anyway.
And the stupid thing is, if schools need to close then it's a million times better to just extend the holiday. As things stand what looks like it will happen is that primaries will go back for somewhere between a day and 2 weeks, mix with each other widespread covid around. Then they will close and cases associated with schools will continue to rise until they've worked their way through households, people who've shared public transport with kids etc. etc.

It also puts some working bit not critical worker parents in a tough spot. I know of more than one family who would happily use grandparent childcare right now if schools didn't reopen, because they know their families have had no contacts. But if schools go back and then close, they can't use grandparent childcare as the risks to the grandparents are too great.

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Re: Back to school

Post by OffTheRock » Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:15 pm

It doesn't give parents, employers or schools much time to plan. It's ridiculous that we're having this conversation at 4pm the day before the start of term. The 2 week holiday ought to have allowed much more notice given school closure was inevitable.

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Re: Back to school

Post by discovolante » Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:05 pm

I feel like this might be a good opportunity for Labour to start openly realigning themselves with the great and the good: teachers, nurses and the like, and to support them directly, rather than just focusing on the safety cost/benefit aspect.
don't get any big ideas, they're not gonna happen

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mediocrity511
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Re: Back to school

Post by mediocrity511 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:18 pm

Our council have said no fines will be issued for attendance right now. So relieved!

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Re: Back to school

Post by Gfamily » Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:21 pm

mediocrity511 wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:18 pm
Our council have said no fines will be issued for attendance right now. So relieved!
Hopefully not for non-attendance either!
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Re: Back to school

Post by shpalman » Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:30 pm

And hopefully not on Monday either!
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Re: Back to school

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:34 pm

Mrs BoaF goes back to school tomorrow.

The course is meant to be blended learning, but they've had no online classes so far and next week is the same: students coming from Lisbon and about 6 other councils south of the river, eating in a canteen and sitting in classrooms together for 6-8 hours.

Still, I doubt anybody will have been doing any extra mixing over the couple of weeks they had off.
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Re: Back to school

Post by shpalman » Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:43 pm

FB_IMG_1609710125188.jpg
FB_IMG_1609710125188.jpg (16.95 KiB) Viewed 451 times
molto tricky

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Re: Back to school

Post by OffTheRock » Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:59 pm

That’s good news mediocrity. Hopefully that means you don’t have to worry too much about the following week.

It’s complete chaos even by DfE standards.

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Re: Back to school

Post by raven » Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:54 pm

OffTheRock wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:15 pm
It doesn't give parents, employers or schools much time to plan. It's ridiculous that we're having this conversation at 4pm the day before the start of term. The 2 week holiday ought to have allowed much more notice given school closure was inevitable.
It is ridiculous. We caould all see this coming before the break.

It would've been even better if, at the start of December when we came out of that half-arsed lockdown, they'd told schools to put contingency plans in place for staying closed after Christmas, just in case. But then someone might have started asking about where all those laptops are.

One nephew's school is definitely back tomorrow, despite half a dozen teachers and a couple of pupils testing positive over the break. The other nephew's school is closed, his teacher has tested positive, but his sister's school (infants, right next door) is currently still planning on opening this week. Which is the school my sister also works at, so she has to juggle work, one kid at home, one kid at school. She spent today checking news sites. Very stressful allround to leave it all so late.

Although Johnson didn't seem that stressed on Marr this morning, the waffling git. Entirely reconciled to doing what we need to do to get numbers down, my arse. If he was reconciled to doing what was needed, he'd have been announcing a proper lockdown.

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Re: Back to school

Post by jimbob » Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:59 pm

raven wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:54 pm
OffTheRock wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:15 pm
It doesn't give parents, employers or schools much time to plan. It's ridiculous that we're having this conversation at 4pm the day before the start of term. The 2 week holiday ought to have allowed much more notice given school closure was inevitable.
It is ridiculous. We caould all see this coming before the break.

It would've been even better if, at the start of December when we came out of that half-arsed lockdown, they'd told schools to put contingency plans in place for staying closed after Christmas, just in case. But then someone might have started asking about where all those laptops are.

One nephew's school is definitely back tomorrow, despite half a dozen teachers and a couple of pupils testing positive over the break. The other nephew's school is closed, his teacher has tested positive, but his sister's school (infants, right next door) is currently still planning on opening this week. Which is the school my sister also works at, so she has to juggle work, one kid at home, one kid at school. She spent today checking news sites. Very stressful allround to leave it all so late.

Although Johnson didn't seem that stressed on Marr this morning, the waffling git. Entirely reconciled to doing what we need to do to get numbers down, my arse. If he was reconciled to doing what was needed, he'd have been announcing a proper lockdown.

Yes, is Johnson just trying to see how far he can push people before they start saying, "Actually, that loveable Boris*, he's been a bit rubbish in acting quickly to deal with the virus. I gave him a pass the first two times, but the third was getting to be a bit of a trend"


*never Johnson
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Back to school

Post by raven » Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:20 pm

The nice but rather home-counties-traditional-tory lady we meet walking her dog of a morning said she'd had high hopes for Boris but she was quite disappointed with him.

That was back in May? April? Over PPE & general ineptness iirc.

Mind, she gifted her grown-up kids with sanitiser and masks way before we locked down, so she tends to be ahead of the curve.

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Re: Back to school

Post by discovolante » Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:17 am

discovolante wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:05 pm
I feel like this might be a good opportunity for Labour to start openly realigning themselves with the great and the good: teachers, nurses and the like, and to support them directly, rather than just focusing on the safety cost/benefit aspect.
Like this: https://twitter.com/AndyBurnhamGM/statu ... 05121?s=20
Instead of being pressured into opening, Headteachers should be supported to make decisions which they believe are right for their children, school and community.

We will continue to make this case to the Government.
Talk about the people who work at the schools, don't just talk about schools as vessels that children get sent to to be educated by anonymous drones.
don't get any big ideas, they're not gonna happen

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Re: Back to school

Post by bagpuss » Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:59 am

discovolante wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:17 am
Talk about the people who work at the schools, don't just talk about schools as vessels that children get sent to to be educated by anonymous drones.
I'm constantly angered by the way that politicians (of all colours, although the government are particularly appalling) talk about schools as if they are solely populated by children. Even if children don't spread the virus as much (which is very much not clear with the new variant), there are a lot of adults in schools. Not just teachers but teaching support staff, office staff, caretakers/building maintenance/cleaning staff, external PE and music teachers who teach in multiple schools. And that's before we even get into the huge amount of mixing (albeit outdoors) of parents, grandparents and childminders at the school gates. And, as with any population of adults, many of those people will have underlying health conditions that make them especially vulnerable. The risks they are taking need at the very least to be acknowledged, not ignored as if they (the people) don't even exist.

That said, so far in our local schools, although we've had cases we haven't seen a lot of spread within schools that I'm aware of. I know of a lot of class and year bubbles being sent home to self-isolate due to individual cases, but I have not yet heard of any cases of onward infection within schools. I'm not sure whether I would necessarily have heard if there'd been just one or two cases but I definitely would if there had been many - the bagkitten's childminder is gossip central.

I cannot, however, understand why the government did not take the obvious approach. We know that mixing will have happened at Christmas as there will have been people who ignored the rules in Tier 4 plus there are plenty of people who are now in Tier 4 who were allowed to mix to a small extent at Christmas because they were in a lower Tier then. The obvious, obvious thing to do would have been to extend school holidays to a full 2 weeks post Christmas. Just 1 additional week of holiday. They've done it for secondary schools, where the impact will be greater on kids, especially those in GCSE and A level years, but not in primary schools where the impact on kids will be minimal. It makes no sense at all. I can only conclude (for approximately the 874th time) that our government are fuckwits.

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Re: Back to school

Post by shpalman » Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:11 pm

Hancock says* “It is clear that the proportion of teachers who catch coronavirus is no higher than the rest of the population.”

This ignores the point that the proportion of the rest of the population who have caught coronavirus is also way too high.

* - based on a SAGE report from mid-December i.e. not considering the new variant
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Re: Back to school

Post by shpalman » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:44 pm

Somebody made this graph:
Eq1XucnXAAAhJji.png
Eq1XucnXAAAhJji.png (46.68 KiB) Viewed 287 times
https://twitter.com/ChristoPhraser/stat ... 1529487364
molto tricky

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Re: Back to school

Post by raven » Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:31 pm

bagpuss wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:59 am
discovolante wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:17 am
Talk about the people who work at the schools, don't just talk about schools as vessels that children get sent to to be educated by anonymous drones.
I'm constantly angered by the way that politicians (of all colours, although the government are particularly appalling) talk about schools as if they are solely populated by children. Even if children don't spread the virus as much (which is very much not clear with the new variant), there are a lot of adults in schools. Not just teachers but teaching support staff, office staff, caretakers/building maintenance/cleaning staff, external PE and music teachers who teach in multiple schools. And that's before we even get into the huge amount of mixing (albeit outdoors) of parents, grandparents and childminders at the school gates. And, as with any population of adults, many of those people will have underlying health conditions that make them especially vulnerable. The risks they are taking need at the very least to be acknowledged, not ignored as if they (the people) don't even exist.

That said, so far in our local schools, although we've had cases we haven't seen a lot of spread within schools that I'm aware of. I know of a lot of class and year bubbles being sent home to self-isolate due to individual cases, but I have not yet heard of any cases of onward infection within schools. I'm not sure whether I would necessarily have heard if there'd been just one or two cases but I definitely would if there had been many - the bagkitten's childminder is gossip central.

I cannot, however, understand why the government did not take the obvious approach. We know that mixing will have happened at Christmas as there will have been people who ignored the rules in Tier 4 plus there are plenty of people who are now in Tier 4 who were allowed to mix to a small extent at Christmas because they were in a lower Tier then. The obvious, obvious thing to do would have been to extend school holidays to a full 2 weeks post Christmas. Just 1 additional week of holiday. They've done it for secondary schools, where the impact will be greater on kids, especially those in GCSE and A level years, but not in primary schools where the impact on kids will be minimal. It makes no sense at all. I can only conclude (for approximately the 874th time) that our government are fuckwits.
Well said, bagpuss. Totally agree.

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Re: Back to school

Post by OffTheRock » Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:38 pm

I genuinely think a lot of teachers would be a lot less angry about it if the risk was acknowledged. Instead they get told schools are safe and they aren’t at risk of catching covid. Mostly what they’re asking for is a bit more than just wiping down door handles and light switches as mitigation.

And we if we hadn’t let things get so out of control outside of schools we would have less of a problem in them.

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Re: Back to school

Post by OffTheRock » Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:45 pm

Definitely worth going on Marr yesterday and saying schools were safe and must go back. Obviously important to get one day of virus spreading in those schools that didn’t have INSET today.

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Re: Back to school

Post by Sciolus » Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:53 pm

I wonder if eight months is enough time for them to devise an alternative to exams which won't work and has to be replaced with something else a week later?

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Re: Back to school

Post by FlammableFlower » Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:54 pm

Sciolus wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:53 pm
I wonder if eight months is enough time for them to devise an alternative to exams which won't work and has to be replaced with something else a week later?
With Williamson's track record.... no.

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Re: Back to school

Post by OffTheRock » Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:01 pm

With their current record presumably they’re going to try the thing they dropped a week later first. And then drop it when it surprisingly turns out not to work.

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Re: Back to school

Post by Trinucleus » Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:55 pm

OffTheRock wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:01 pm
With their current record presumably they’re going to try the thing they dropped a week later first. And then drop it when it surprisingly turns out not to work.
They'll wait to see what doesn't work in Scotland and copy that

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Re: Back to school

Post by jimbob » Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:31 pm

FlammableFlower wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:54 pm
Sciolus wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:53 pm
I wonder if eight months is enough time for them to devise an alternative to exams which won't work and has to be replaced with something else a week later?
With Williamson's track record.... no.
As Lothian said over on ISF,


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Re: Back to school

Post by Brightonian » Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:08 am


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