Back to school

Covid-19 discussion, bring your own statistics
badger
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Re: Back to school

Post by badger » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:11 am

mediocrity511 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:46 pm
badger wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:18 am
Seagull wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:07 am
Does anyone have any thoughts about the info from the C-19 Zoe app which lists the most frequent symptoms for children as headache/fatigue/temp/skipping meals/sore throat, and states that around 50% of symptomatic children might be missed by the NHS's main three symptoms? I understand that the numbers were small, and the NHS symptoms are an attempt to provide a degree of differentiation. Is the Zoe report backed-up elsewhere? Are we looking for the wrong things in schools?
Think it was Zoe saying a few months back that a rash should be added as frequent symptom for children - have they dropped that now? Also diarrhoea.

Adding sore throat will cause problems as a single symptom - won't have many kids in school at this time of year!

It would be interesting to see if we get any official differentiation.
If we had the testing capacity, it wouldnt be a big deal. Kids would be off for 24 hours with a regular sore throat until results got back. Of course that isn't the case right now.

It would require a culture change in schools away from focus on purely attendance. But I think this year in particular, we need transmission of all common illnesses to be reduced.
It's a big if, at the moment.

Found out y2 minibadger is having recorder lessons in class, using the school recorders (shared between bubbles). I assume they're getting a good wipe down between uses, but there'll be quite a bit of saliva on the inside for the next child to possibly ingest/inhale. Might have to ask if they're being dipped.

Glad Miniocrity is ok.

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jimbob
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Re: Back to school

Post by jimbob » Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:21 pm

badger wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:11 am
It's a big if, at the moment.

Found out y2 minibadger is having recorder lessons in class, using the school recorders (shared between bubbles). I assume they're getting a good wipe down between uses, but there'll be quite a bit of saliva on the inside for the next child to possibly ingest/inhale. Might have to ask if they're being dipped.

Glad Miniocrity is ok.
Now that is stupid.

If you don't mind being the pushy parent - have you considered asking to see the COVID risk assessment for shared recorders?
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

badger
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Re: Back to school

Post by badger » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:18 pm

jimbob wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:21 pm
badger wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:11 am
It's a big if, at the moment.

Found out y2 minibadger is having recorder lessons in class, using the school recorders (shared between bubbles). I assume they're getting a good wipe down between uses, but there'll be quite a bit of saliva on the inside for the next child to possibly ingest/inhale. Might have to ask if they're being dipped.

Glad Miniocrity is ok.
Now that is stupid.

If you don't mind being the pushy parent - have you considered asking to see the COVID risk assessment for shared recorders?
I will ask. My instinct is to trust the school, but am also aware of how almost all of us have been caught out at some point to varying degrees, and that asking the question is not an accusation or a presumption of stupidity.

I will try my best to frame it accordingly.

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bolo
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Re: Back to school

Post by bolo » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:40 pm

BoloJr went back to school this week, all remote. And now the school district has been attacked by ransomware. Nice.
https://www.fcps.edu/blog/fcps-statemen ... estigation

FlammableFlower
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Re: Back to school

Post by FlammableFlower » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:47 pm

bolo wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:40 pm
BoloJr went back to school this week, all remote. And now the school district has been attacked by ransomware. Nice.
https://www.fcps.edu/blog/fcps-statemen ... estigation
Flipping eck.

bagpuss
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Re: Back to school

Post by bagpuss » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:22 am

bolo wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:40 pm
BoloJr went back to school this week, all remote. And now the school district has been attacked by ransomware. Nice.
https://www.fcps.edu/blog/fcps-statemen ... estigation
bl..dy hell, that's stooping low. Hope it's sorted fairly briskly.


In virus news, the bagkitten and her best friend are both off sick today. It's just a cold but I'm slightly taken aback by the reports from friends on that there bookface thingy that sound like an identical virus striking schools across a whole swathe of Southern England - Kent, Bucks, Berks and Gloucs. I'm aware that with all the accompanying sneezing, this is going to spread much more easily than COVID is supposed to in small kids but still, it's been a bit eye-opening. And it's demonstrated very clearly how utterly pointless the year bubbles are due to siblings. Several other Y5 kids I know with it have siblings in Y3. And yes, of course the siblings have it too.

badger
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Re: Back to school

Post by badger » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:10 am

bagpuss wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:22 am
bolo wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:40 pm
BoloJr went back to school this week, all remote. And now the school district has been attacked by ransomware. Nice.
https://www.fcps.edu/blog/fcps-statemen ... estigation
bl..dy hell, that's stooping low. Hope it's sorted fairly briskly.


In virus news, the bagkitten and her best friend are both off sick today. It's just a cold but I'm slightly taken aback by the reports from friends on that there bookface thingy that sound like an identical virus striking schools across a whole swathe of Southern England - Kent, Bucks, Berks and Gloucs. I'm aware that with all the accompanying sneezing, this is going to spread much more easily than COVID is supposed to in small kids but still, it's been a bit eye-opening. And it's demonstrated very clearly how utterly pointless the year bubbles are due to siblings. Several other Y5 kids I know with it have siblings in Y3. And yes, of course the siblings have it too.
Hope bagkitten & friend are okay.
Can I ask what you are taken aback by with this virus, specifically? Is it any different to other colds? They all spread quickly, don't they?

re: bubbles. Aren't they more about contact tracing and having some measure of being able to isolate in smaller numbers than an entire school? Siblings are an obvious wrinkle, but a known and traceable one (not just within schools but between schools).
If transmission is lower in primary-age kids, then being able to isolate a bubble rather than the whole school for a few days seems preferable to me (or bubble plus some siblings). And then we know where to prioritise testing (or so it seems to me).

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Re: Back to school

Post by bagpuss » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:29 am

badger wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:10 am
bagpuss wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:22 am

In virus news, the bagkitten and her best friend are both off sick today. It's just a cold but I'm slightly taken aback by the reports from friends on that there bookface thingy that sound like an identical virus striking schools across a whole swathe of Southern England - Kent, Bucks, Berks and Gloucs. I'm aware that with all the accompanying sneezing, this is going to spread much more easily than COVID is supposed to in small kids but still, it's been a bit eye-opening. And it's demonstrated very clearly how utterly pointless the year bubbles are due to siblings. Several other Y5 kids I know with it have siblings in Y3. And yes, of course the siblings have it too.
Hope bagkitten & friend are okay.
Can I ask what you are taken aback by with this virus, specifically? Is it any different to other colds? They all spread quickly, don't they?
Thank you, they'll be fine - they both just feel grotty.

I think I was just assuming (probably naively) that with the care people have supposedly been taking to avoid spreading things, there would be much less in the way of viruses about at school compared with a normal year.
badger wrote: re: bubbles. Aren't they more about contact tracing and having some measure of being able to isolate in smaller numbers than an entire school? Siblings are an obvious wrinkle, but a known and traceable one (not just within schools but between schools).
If transmission is lower in primary-age kids, then being able to isolate a bubble rather than the whole school for a few days seems preferable to me (or bubble plus some siblings). And then we know where to prioritise testing (or so it seems to me).
Oh of course, some attempt at reducing crossover between years is better than no attempt. But the majority of kids have siblings in other years (the bagkitten and her 2 best friends are definitely unusual in all being only children) so it seems that surely it must be only a very very little better than no attempt.

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bob sterman
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Re: Back to school

Post by bob sterman » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:37 am

bagpuss wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:22 am
In virus news, the bagkitten and her best friend are both off sick today. It's just a cold but I'm slightly taken aback by the reports from friends on that there bookface thingy that sound like an identical virus striking schools across a whole swathe of Southern England - Kent, Bucks, Berks and Gloucs,
Same here Chez Sterman - Southern England. Child home with what seems to be a very mild cold. Trivial symptoms - but thought it best for rest of class/school.

It looks like a cold, sniffs like a cold etc but in the back of the mind there is the knowledge that COVID-19 can present with incredibly mild symptoms in young children.

It's possibly the mildest cold I've ever seen - which paradoxically makes me rather suspicious it's not in fact a regular cold.

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lpm
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Re: Back to school

Post by lpm » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:44 am

It is pretty amazing how the cold viruses were suppressed for months, then sprang into life on 1 September and raced across the country within two weeks of school reopening. Shows how connected we all are.

And highlights how dangerous everything was before mass vaccination - mumps, measles etc reaching every child. The way they dealt with it was the same as the unvaccinated Covid virus: 25 days exclusion from school for not only infected children, but any other child who had come into contact with an infected person.
I'll miss him after he's died in the pandemic

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Re: Back to school

Post by bagpuss » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:52 am

bob sterman wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:37 am
bagpuss wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:22 am
In virus news, the bagkitten and her best friend are both off sick today. It's just a cold but I'm slightly taken aback by the reports from friends on that there bookface thingy that sound like an identical virus striking schools across a whole swathe of Southern England - Kent, Bucks, Berks and Gloucs,
Same here Chez Sterman - Southern England. Child home with what seems to be a very mild cold. Trivial symptoms - but thought it best for rest of class/school.

It looks like a cold, sniffs like a cold etc but in the back of the mind there is the knowledge that COVID-19 can present with incredibly mild symptoms in young children.

It's possibly the mildest cold I've ever seen - which paradoxically makes me rather suspicious it's not in fact a regular cold.
I was actually glad that I got it very shortly after the bagkitten and am experiencing much milder symptoms than she is. This one is definitely a cold - as an overweight (albeit relatively fit) 50 year old, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be suffering this lightly with COVID-19. The bagkitten had a high temp yesterday so it might have been more of a worry if it weren't for the fact that I had a sore throat for 2 hours on Saturday night and a bit of a sniffle yesterday. And I ran/walked a very hilly 19km on Saturday morning with no difficulty breathing whatsoever.

badger
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Re: Back to school

Post by badger » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:55 am

bagpuss wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:29 am
badger wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:10 am
bagpuss wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:22 am

In virus news, the bagkitten and her best friend are both off sick today. It's just a cold but I'm slightly taken aback by the reports from friends on that there bookface thingy that sound like an identical virus striking schools across a whole swathe of Southern England - Kent, Bucks, Berks and Gloucs. I'm aware that with all the accompanying sneezing, this is going to spread much more easily than COVID is supposed to in small kids but still, it's been a bit eye-opening. And it's demonstrated very clearly how utterly pointless the year bubbles are due to siblings. Several other Y5 kids I know with it have siblings in Y3. And yes, of course the siblings have it too.
Hope bagkitten & friend are okay.
Can I ask what you are taken aback by with this virus, specifically? Is it any different to other colds? They all spread quickly, don't they?
Thank you, they'll be fine - they both just feel grotty.

I think I was just assuming (probably naively) that with the care people have supposedly been taking to avoid spreading things, there would be much less in the way of viruses about at school compared with a normal year.
badger wrote: re: bubbles. Aren't they more about contact tracing and having some measure of being able to isolate in smaller numbers than an entire school? Siblings are an obvious wrinkle, but a known and traceable one (not just within schools but between schools).
If transmission is lower in primary-age kids, then being able to isolate a bubble rather than the whole school for a few days seems preferable to me (or bubble plus some siblings). And then we know where to prioritise testing (or so it seems to me).
Oh of course, some attempt at reducing crossover between years is better than no attempt. But the majority of kids have siblings in other years (the bagkitten and her 2 best friends are definitely unusual in all being only children) so it seems that surely it must be only a very very little better than no attempt.
Yep, there may well be much less in the way of viruses about, but there will still be some. Sneezers' gonna sneeze, etc. It brings home how easy it spreads, I guess. It's also tricky as per Bob S's point that we er on the side of caution re keeping them at home.

Bubbles/siblings: I see it as potentially more effective. KidA tests positive, isolate BubbleA and A's siblings and test them. Look for symptoms in sibling-related bubbles especially while waiting for results. It's not like the whole bubble is infected at the same time (or very, very unlikely).

Bubbles seem reasonable to me on this basis, faff that they are. But there's nothing watertight beyond shutting schools, is there?

Then again, I have no idea that this is the actual plan/theory and stand to be corrected!

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Re: Back to school

Post by bagpuss » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:01 am

badger wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:55 am
bagpuss wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:29 am
badger wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:10 am


Hope bagkitten & friend are okay.
Can I ask what you are taken aback by with this virus, specifically? Is it any different to other colds? They all spread quickly, don't they?
Thank you, they'll be fine - they both just feel grotty.

I think I was just assuming (probably naively) that with the care people have supposedly been taking to avoid spreading things, there would be much less in the way of viruses about at school compared with a normal year.
badger wrote: re: bubbles. Aren't they more about contact tracing and having some measure of being able to isolate in smaller numbers than an entire school? Siblings are an obvious wrinkle, but a known and traceable one (not just within schools but between schools).
If transmission is lower in primary-age kids, then being able to isolate a bubble rather than the whole school for a few days seems preferable to me (or bubble plus some siblings). And then we know where to prioritise testing (or so it seems to me).
Oh of course, some attempt at reducing crossover between years is better than no attempt. But the majority of kids have siblings in other years (the bagkitten and her 2 best friends are definitely unusual in all being only children) so it seems that surely it must be only a very very little better than no attempt.
Yep, there may well be much less in the way of viruses about, but there will still be some. Sneezers' gonna sneeze, etc. It brings home how easy it spreads, I guess. It's also tricky as per Bob S's point that we er on the side of caution re keeping them at home.

Bubbles/siblings: I see it as potentially more effective. KidA tests positive, isolate BubbleA and A's siblings and test them. Look for symptoms in sibling-related bubbles especially while waiting for results. It's not like the whole bubble is infected at the same time (or very, very unlikely).

Bubbles seem reasonable to me on this basis, faff that they are. But there's nothing watertight beyond shutting schools, is there?

Then again, I have no idea that this is the actual plan/theory and stand to be corrected!
Fair enough - seen from that perspective it does make some sense. I suspect my scepticism is being fed by the rubbish way the bagkitten's school head is implementing it.

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shpalman
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Re: Back to school

Post by shpalman » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:04 am

Schools are going back in most of Italy today. Lectures have started at the Politecnico, and I'm lecturing this term (I start this afternoon).

So let's see if everything gets locked down in about two weeks from now.
molto tricky

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jimbob
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Re: Back to school

Post by jimbob » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:36 am

badger wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:55 am
bagpuss wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:29 am
badger wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:10 am


Hope bagkitten & friend are okay.
Can I ask what you are taken aback by with this virus, specifically? Is it any different to other colds? They all spread quickly, don't they?
Thank you, they'll be fine - they both just feel grotty.

I think I was just assuming (probably naively) that with the care people have supposedly been taking to avoid spreading things, there would be much less in the way of viruses about at school compared with a normal year.
badger wrote: re: bubbles. Aren't they more about contact tracing and having some measure of being able to isolate in smaller numbers than an entire school? Siblings are an obvious wrinkle, but a known and traceable one (not just within schools but between schools).
If transmission is lower in primary-age kids, then being able to isolate a bubble rather than the whole school for a few days seems preferable to me (or bubble plus some siblings). And then we know where to prioritise testing (or so it seems to me).
Oh of course, some attempt at reducing crossover between years is better than no attempt. But the majority of kids have siblings in other years (the bagkitten and her 2 best friends are definitely unusual in all being only children) so it seems that surely it must be only a very very little better than no attempt.
Yep, there may well be much less in the way of viruses about, but there will still be some. Sneezers' gonna sneeze, etc. It brings home how easy it spreads, I guess. It's also tricky as per Bob S's point that we er on the side of caution re keeping them at home.

Bubbles/siblings: I see it as potentially more effective. KidA tests positive, isolate BubbleA and A's siblings and test them. Look for symptoms in sibling-related bubbles especially while waiting for results. It's not like the whole bubble is infected at the same time (or very, very unlikely).

Bubbles seem reasonable to me on this basis, faff that they are. But there's nothing watertight beyond shutting schools, is there?

Then again, I have no idea that this is the actual plan/theory and stand to be corrected!
There's also no reason why having a cold would prevent asymptomatic COVID-19, in fact it's evidence that they've been in a situation where they have been exposed to a carrier of a cold.

I'd imagine sneezing from whatever cause would help the covid virus spread too.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

badger
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Re: Back to school

Post by badger » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:50 am

jimbob wrote:There's also no reason why having a cold would prevent asymptomatic COVID-19, in fact it's evidence that they've been in a situation where they have been exposed to a carrier of a cold.

I'd imagine sneezing from whatever cause would help the covid virus spread too.
I don't think I said that it would prevent asymptomatic COVID-19?!

Aren't we trying to lower risk, and accept there will be leaks in the attempts to contain? Tricky line to walk, especially as messaging and implementation can be poor, but am trying to avoid falling into despair as that leads to thinking that it doesn't matter what we do, or that we should just lockdown now until the vaccine arrives.

Am assuming that when prevalence of C19 in school age kids goes up high enough, then it may be we get a message to isolate if *any* cold symptoms? But we may reach some sort of lockdown sooner?

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Re: Back to school

Post by jimbob » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:10 am

badger wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:50 am
jimbob wrote:There's also no reason why having a cold would prevent asymptomatic COVID-19, in fact it's evidence that they've been in a situation where they have been exposed to a carrier of a cold.

I'd imagine sneezing from whatever cause would help the covid virus spread too.
I don't think I said that it would prevent asymptomatic COVID-19?!

Aren't we trying to lower risk, and accept there will be leaks in the attempts to contain? Tricky line to walk, especially as messaging and implementation can be poor, but am trying to avoid falling into despair as that leads to thinking that it doesn't matter what we do, or that we should just lockdown now until the vaccine arrives.

Am assuming that when prevalence of C19 in school age kids goes up high enough, then it may be we get a message to isolate if *any* cold symptoms? But we may reach some sort of lockdown sooner?
Oh, no you didn't - my point was that sneezing is inherently an activity that is high risk of spreading COVID-19. As such, we should be more paranoid about it.

And that if someone has caught a cold, it's a tracer to show that they haven't been completely effective in their isolation.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Back to school

Post by FlammableFlower » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:31 am

lpm wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:44 am
It is pretty amazing how the cold viruses were suppressed for months, then sprang into life on 1 September and raced across the country within two weeks of school reopening. Shows how connected we all are.

And highlights how dangerous everything was before mass vaccination - mumps, measles etc reaching every child. The way they dealt with it was the same as the unvaccinated Covid virus: 25 days exclusion from school for not only infected children, but any other child who had come into contact with an infected person.
Yep, I remember reading of "old" books when I was younger and many plots either mentioned or revolved around child off school for an extended time that just didn't happen when I was young let alone now.

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Re: Back to school

Post by jimbob » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:37 am

FlammableFlower wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:31 am
lpm wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:44 am
It is pretty amazing how the cold viruses were suppressed for months, then sprang into life on 1 September and raced across the country within two weeks of school reopening. Shows how connected we all are.

And highlights how dangerous everything was before mass vaccination - mumps, measles etc reaching every child. The way they dealt with it was the same as the unvaccinated Covid virus: 25 days exclusion from school for not only infected children, but any other child who had come into contact with an infected person.
Yep, I remember reading of "old" books when I was younger and many plots either mentioned or revolved around child off school for an extended time that just didn't happen when I was young let alone now.
Exactly - society has dealt with such diseases before vaccination and antibiotics. And quarantine was a key part of it.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Back to school

Post by mediocrity511 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:56 am

badger wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:50 am
jimbob wrote:There's also no reason why having a cold would prevent asymptomatic COVID-19, in fact it's evidence that they've been in a situation where they have been exposed to a carrier of a cold.

I'd imagine sneezing from whatever cause would help the covid virus spread too.
I don't think I said that it would prevent asymptomatic COVID-19?!

Aren't we trying to lower risk, and accept there will be leaks in the attempts to contain? Tricky line to walk, especially as messaging and implementation can be poor, but am trying to avoid falling into despair as that leads to thinking that it doesn't matter what we do, or that we should just lockdown now until the vaccine arrives.

Am assuming that when prevalence of C19 in school age kids goes up high enough, then it may be we get a message to isolate if *any* cold symptoms? But we may reach some sort of lockdown sooner?
Depressingly, I can see it going the other way. Kids with coughs can attend schools so long as they don't have a temperature too. They're blaming the testing fiasco on people testing kids for "sniffles", seemingly without realising the overlap between covid19 watchlist symptoms and colds, particularly with young kids who spike a fever with any bug.

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Re: Back to school

Post by badger » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:58 am

jimbob wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:10 am
badger wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:50 am
jimbob wrote:There's also no reason why having a cold would prevent asymptomatic COVID-19, in fact it's evidence that they've been in a situation where they have been exposed to a carrier of a cold.

I'd imagine sneezing from whatever cause would help the covid virus spread too.
I don't think I said that it would prevent asymptomatic COVID-19?!

Aren't we trying to lower risk, and accept there will be leaks in the attempts to contain? Tricky line to walk, especially as messaging and implementation can be poor, but am trying to avoid falling into despair as that leads to thinking that it doesn't matter what we do, or that we should just lockdown now until the vaccine arrives.

Am assuming that when prevalence of C19 in school age kids goes up high enough, then it may be we get a message to isolate if *any* cold symptoms? But we may reach some sort of lockdown sooner?
Oh, no you didn't - my point was that sneezing is inherently an activity that is high risk of spreading COVID-19. As such, we should be more paranoid about it.

And that if someone has caught a cold, it's a tracer to show that they haven't been completely effective in their isolation.
Indeed, but hazmat suits are not a viable solution. I'll disagree about increasing paranoia around sneezing until I've seen more information about transmission in young kids. I've no doubt it makes a difference, but not sure it's enough of one to be a sole symptom* to isolate for.

*assuming here that a person is sneezing for reasons other than C-19 too.

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Re: Back to school

Post by badger » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:11 pm

mediocrity511 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:56 am
badger wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:50 am
jimbob wrote:There's also no reason why having a cold would prevent asymptomatic COVID-19, in fact it's evidence that they've been in a situation where they have been exposed to a carrier of a cold.

I'd imagine sneezing from whatever cause would help the covid virus spread too.
I don't think I said that it would prevent asymptomatic COVID-19?!

Aren't we trying to lower risk, and accept there will be leaks in the attempts to contain? Tricky line to walk, especially as messaging and implementation can be poor, but am trying to avoid falling into despair as that leads to thinking that it doesn't matter what we do, or that we should just lockdown now until the vaccine arrives.

Am assuming that when prevalence of C19 in school age kids goes up high enough, then it may be we get a message to isolate if *any* cold symptoms? But we may reach some sort of lockdown sooner?
Depressingly, I can see it going the other way. Kids with coughs can attend schools so long as they don't have a temperature too. They're blaming the testing fiasco on people testing kids for "sniffles", seemingly without realising the overlap between covid19 watchlist symptoms and colds, particularly with young kids who spike a fever with any bug.
Are they? That's not on. A child either has the watchlist symptoms or they don't. Sniffles isn't a symptom, but a fever is. If they need to adjust the watchlist symptoms in time and by age, then bring it on.

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Re: Back to school

Post by bagpuss » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:56 pm

badger wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:11 pm
mediocrity511 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:56 am
badger wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:50 am


I don't think I said that it would prevent asymptomatic COVID-19?!

Aren't we trying to lower risk, and accept there will be leaks in the attempts to contain? Tricky line to walk, especially as messaging and implementation can be poor, but am trying to avoid falling into despair as that leads to thinking that it doesn't matter what we do, or that we should just lockdown now until the vaccine arrives.

Am assuming that when prevalence of C19 in school age kids goes up high enough, then it may be we get a message to isolate if *any* cold symptoms? But we may reach some sort of lockdown sooner?
Depressingly, I can see it going the other way. Kids with coughs can attend schools so long as they don't have a temperature too. They're blaming the testing fiasco on people testing kids for "sniffles", seemingly without realising the overlap between covid19 watchlist symptoms and colds, particularly with young kids who spike a fever with any bug.
Are they? That's not on. A child either has the watchlist symptoms or they don't. Sniffles isn't a symptom, but a fever is. If they need to adjust the watchlist symptoms in time and by age, then bring it on.
Yes, they are, or at least Radio 4 was reporting that. I haven't been able to find a source online to link to though. What I have realised from my searches though is that technically we should be trying to get the bagkitten tested as she did have a slightly high temp yesterday. I thought you were supposed to get tested if it went over a certain level but it seems I was wrong - the rules just say a high temp. So no wonder the testing services are being swamped. But does 37.5 technically count as high anyway? It's high for her but it's probably just about within normal ranges.

I now feel slightly guilty for not trying to get her tested, even though I'm approximately 99.9999999999999% sure it's a common cold, especially as I have it too. But I'd probably feel even guiltier for trying to get her a test when the system is overwhelmed and I'm so sure it's just a cold. bl..dy parental guilt.

AMS
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Re: Back to school

Post by AMS » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:52 pm

jimbob wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:37 am
FlammableFlower wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:31 am
lpm wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:44 am
It is pretty amazing how the cold viruses were suppressed for months, then sprang into life on 1 September and raced across the country within two weeks of school reopening. Shows how connected we all are.

And highlights how dangerous everything was before mass vaccination - mumps, measles etc reaching every child. The way they dealt with it was the same as the unvaccinated Covid virus: 25 days exclusion from school for not only infected children, but any other child who had come into contact with an infected person.
Yep, I remember reading of "old" books when I was younger and many plots either mentioned or revolved around child off school for an extended time that just didn't happen when I was young let alone now.
Exactly - society has dealt with such diseases before vaccination and antibiotics. And quarantine was a key part of it.
Papworth Hospital (highly specialist NHS centre for heart and lung operations, to the level they took Prince Philip there) was built in a tiny village 10 miles from Cambridge, as it started out as a TB sanitorium.

AMS
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Re: Back to school

Post by AMS » Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:18 pm

jimbob wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:10 am

Oh, no you didn't - my point was that sneezing is inherently an activity that is high risk of spreading COVID-19. As such, we should be more paranoid about it.

And that if someone has caught a cold, it's a tracer to show that they haven't been completely effective in their isolation.
They're not identical in how they spread though. Rhinoviruses can last a long time on surfaces (weeks?), and because they make you snotty, are possibly more effective it spreading this way than covid is. I'm struggling to find a scientific link, but I found an infographic from the guardian (dating from the Ebola outbreak in W Africa) putting colds as having an R0 of ~6.

It's a fair point about coinfection helping spread covid though.

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