Covid and flu jab

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Tessa K
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Covid and flu jab

Post by Tessa K » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:53 am

It looks like having a flu jab can help fend off Covid infection.
We present here the hypothesis that the resultant immunity against prior influenza infection would, at least in part, foster immunity against SARS-CoV-2. This hypothesis is supported by which the similarity in the quality of immunity toward both viruses. and by the previous studies showing cross reactivity of immunity between Flu and coronavirus due to the similarity in their structures

Besides the cross reactivity effect, the anti-Flu immune responses can induce bystander immunity
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... PP9tYU1YXY

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Cardinal Fang
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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by Cardinal Fang » Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:45 pm

Well only about a month and a half until we can get the flu jab (they normally start doing them in mid October).

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by headshot » Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:13 pm

Cardinal Fang wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:45 pm
Well only about a month and a half until we can get the flu jab (they normally start doing them in mid October).

CF
Frau HS and I have ours booked on Oct 3rd. She’s in the free jab list.

Friends in the US have been getting them from mid-Aug.

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by Millennie Al » Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:42 am

Tessa K wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:53 am
It looks like having a flu jab can help fend off Covid infection.
We present here the hypothesis that the resultant immunity against prior influenza infection would, at least in part, foster immunity against SARS-CoV-2. This hypothesis is supported by which the similarity in the quality of immunity toward both viruses. and by the previous studies showing cross reactivity of immunity between Flu and coronavirus due to the similarity in their structures

Besides the cross reactivity effect, the anti-Flu immune responses can induce bystander immunity
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... PP9tYU1YXY
I don't even have to read that to know it's very likely wrong. The people who are consistently targetted for annual flu vaccinations are the elderly, so if the hypothesis were true, they'd be largely immune to Covid-19. Obviously, they're not, so the hypothesis is very highly unlikely.
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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by Tessa K » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:57 am

I've booked mine for Sept 30 at Boots. They told me it would be available from mid September. Even if it doesn't help protect against Covid, I don't want flu. I had it a few years ago and could barely get out of bed for three weeks.

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by Gfamily » Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:06 am

Millennie Al wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:42 am
Tessa K wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:53 am
It looks like having a flu jab can help fend off Covid infection.
We present here the hypothesis that the resultant immunity against prior influenza infection would, at least in part, foster immunity against SARS-CoV-2. This hypothesis is supported by which the similarity in the quality of immunity toward both viruses. and by the previous studies showing cross reactivity of immunity between Flu and coronavirus due to the similarity in their structures

Besides the cross reactivity effect, the anti-Flu immune responses can induce bystander immunity
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... PP9tYU1YXY
I don't even have to read that to know it's very likely wrong. The people who are consistently targetted for annual flu vaccinations are the elderly, so if the hypothesis were true, they'd be largely immune to Covid-19. Obviously, they're not, so the hypothesis is very highly unlikely.
Except that the elderly who get the flu vaccination, typically get them early, so would have had their flu immune response months earlier than their Covid infection.

Maybe reading the paper would have been worthwhile.
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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by AMS » Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:34 am

Tessa K wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:57 am
I've booked mine for Sept 30 at Boots. They told me it would be available from mid September. Even if it doesn't help protect against Covid, I don't want flu. I had it a few years ago and could barely get out of bed for three weeks.
Yep, flu is not as bad as Covid in the serious cases, but it's nasty enough to not want to have it. Devi Shridar made a comment recently that maybe the experience of Covid will make us take flu seriously at last.

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by Tessa K » Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:38 am

AMS wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:34 am
Tessa K wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:57 am
I've booked mine for Sept 30 at Boots. They told me it would be available from mid September. Even if it doesn't help protect against Covid, I don't want flu. I had it a few years ago and could barely get out of bed for three weeks.
Yep, flu is not as bad as Covid in the serious cases, but it's nasty enough to not want to have it. Devi Shridar made a comment recently that maybe the experience of Covid will make us take flu seriously at last.
It's important that people get the jab otherwise if they get flu they may well think it's COVID and that could put even more stress on the NHS

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by AMS » Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:44 am

Also the other possible effects of confusing the symptoms of the two viruses. For example, if someone has a high fever and lets their kids' school know, but it takes 48h for a negative test result to come back, that's a recipe for chaos.

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by shpalman » Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:10 am

Has Medical Hypotheses improved its reputation in the past 10 years?
molto tricky

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by mediocrity511 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:21 am

AMS wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:44 am
Also the other possible effects of confusing the symptoms of the two viruses. For example, if someone has a high fever and lets their kids' school know, but it takes 48h for a negative test result to come back, that's a recipe for chaos.
Under the guidelines the school is expected to do nothing until a positive test is received. So they'd carry on as normal for 48h and only start sending home kids after that if there was a positive.

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by lpm » Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:33 am

Is flu far less asymptomatic than Covid?

Is it possible for a child to have flu with zero or minimal symptoms? It's the high frequency of invisible Covid in kids that's the underlying problem.
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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by AMS » Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:39 pm

lpm wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:33 am
Is flu far less asymptomatic than Covid?

Is it possible for a child to have flu with zero or minimal symptoms? It's the high frequency of invisible Covid in kids that's the underlying problem.
Hmm.
https://www.nhs.uk/news/medical-practic ... -symptoms/

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by AMS » Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:43 pm

But it's also more complicated, because people who are re-infected by a flu strain they've seen previously (or been vaccinated against) will show a rise in antibody titres but little or no symptoms. Something similar was seen recently for covid in Hong Kong, picked up in a PCR test. I don't know whether these people would be infectious to others.

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by gosling » Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:41 pm

My 73-year-old mum has always refused the flu jab, but after a nasty virus last year and the ongoing covid-19 situation, is going to do it this year. So, silver linings and all that.

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by Millennie Al » Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:56 am

Gfamily wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:06 am
Millennie Al wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:42 am

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... PP9tYU1YXY

I don't even have to read that to know it's very likely wrong. The people who are consistently targetted for annual flu vaccinations are the elderly, so if the hypothesis were true, they'd be largely immune to Covid-19. Obviously, they're not, so the hypothesis is very highly unlikely.
Except that the elderly who get the flu vaccination, typically get them early, so would have had their flu immune response months earlier than their Covid infection.

Maybe reading the paper would have been worthwhile.
If the vaccination has lost its effect after only a few months, it's pretty worthless.

And, I'll also point out that saying that I don't have to read the article does not mean that I haven't. The article is suggesting a treatment which is completely untested, which is completely wrong. The correct course, if the authors believe that the treatment will work, is to suggest that a study be done to test its effectiveness. Of course, the first step would be to identify which flu vaccine to test, which further undermines the hypothesis. Why should a vaccine protect better against Covid-19 that against other flu strains?
Covid-19 - Don't catch it: don't spread it.

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