Covid and flu jab

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Tessa K
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Covid and flu jab

Post by Tessa K » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:53 am

It looks like having a flu jab can help fend off Covid infection.
We present here the hypothesis that the resultant immunity against prior influenza infection would, at least in part, foster immunity against SARS-CoV-2. This hypothesis is supported by which the similarity in the quality of immunity toward both viruses. and by the previous studies showing cross reactivity of immunity between Flu and coronavirus due to the similarity in their structures

Besides the cross reactivity effect, the anti-Flu immune responses can induce bystander immunity
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... PP9tYU1YXY

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Cardinal Fang
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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by Cardinal Fang » Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:45 pm

Well only about a month and a half until we can get the flu jab (they normally start doing them in mid October).

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by headshot » Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:13 pm

Cardinal Fang wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:45 pm
Well only about a month and a half until we can get the flu jab (they normally start doing them in mid October).

CF
Frau HS and I have ours booked on Oct 3rd. She’s in the free jab list.

Friends in the US have been getting them from mid-Aug.

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by Millennie Al » Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:42 am

Tessa K wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:53 am
It looks like having a flu jab can help fend off Covid infection.
We present here the hypothesis that the resultant immunity against prior influenza infection would, at least in part, foster immunity against SARS-CoV-2. This hypothesis is supported by which the similarity in the quality of immunity toward both viruses. and by the previous studies showing cross reactivity of immunity between Flu and coronavirus due to the similarity in their structures

Besides the cross reactivity effect, the anti-Flu immune responses can induce bystander immunity
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... PP9tYU1YXY
I don't even have to read that to know it's very likely wrong. The people who are consistently targetted for annual flu vaccinations are the elderly, so if the hypothesis were true, they'd be largely immune to Covid-19. Obviously, they're not, so the hypothesis is very highly unlikely.
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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by Tessa K » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:57 am

I've booked mine for Sept 30 at Boots. They told me it would be available from mid September. Even if it doesn't help protect against Covid, I don't want flu. I had it a few years ago and could barely get out of bed for three weeks.

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by Gfamily » Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:06 am

Millennie Al wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:42 am
Tessa K wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:53 am
It looks like having a flu jab can help fend off Covid infection.
We present here the hypothesis that the resultant immunity against prior influenza infection would, at least in part, foster immunity against SARS-CoV-2. This hypothesis is supported by which the similarity in the quality of immunity toward both viruses. and by the previous studies showing cross reactivity of immunity between Flu and coronavirus due to the similarity in their structures

Besides the cross reactivity effect, the anti-Flu immune responses can induce bystander immunity
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... PP9tYU1YXY
I don't even have to read that to know it's very likely wrong. The people who are consistently targetted for annual flu vaccinations are the elderly, so if the hypothesis were true, they'd be largely immune to Covid-19. Obviously, they're not, so the hypothesis is very highly unlikely.
Except that the elderly who get the flu vaccination, typically get them early, so would have had their flu immune response months earlier than their Covid infection.

Maybe reading the paper would have been worthwhile.
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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by AMS » Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:34 am

Tessa K wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:57 am
I've booked mine for Sept 30 at Boots. They told me it would be available from mid September. Even if it doesn't help protect against Covid, I don't want flu. I had it a few years ago and could barely get out of bed for three weeks.
Yep, flu is not as bad as Covid in the serious cases, but it's nasty enough to not want to have it. Devi Shridar made a comment recently that maybe the experience of Covid will make us take flu seriously at last.

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by Tessa K » Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:38 am

AMS wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:34 am
Tessa K wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:57 am
I've booked mine for Sept 30 at Boots. They told me it would be available from mid September. Even if it doesn't help protect against Covid, I don't want flu. I had it a few years ago and could barely get out of bed for three weeks.
Yep, flu is not as bad as Covid in the serious cases, but it's nasty enough to not want to have it. Devi Shridar made a comment recently that maybe the experience of Covid will make us take flu seriously at last.
It's important that people get the jab otherwise if they get flu they may well think it's COVID and that could put even more stress on the NHS

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by AMS » Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:44 am

Also the other possible effects of confusing the symptoms of the two viruses. For example, if someone has a high fever and lets their kids' school know, but it takes 48h for a negative test result to come back, that's a recipe for chaos.

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by shpalman » Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:10 am

Has Medical Hypotheses improved its reputation in the past 10 years?
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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by mediocrity511 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:21 am

AMS wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:44 am
Also the other possible effects of confusing the symptoms of the two viruses. For example, if someone has a high fever and lets their kids' school know, but it takes 48h for a negative test result to come back, that's a recipe for chaos.
Under the guidelines the school is expected to do nothing until a positive test is received. So they'd carry on as normal for 48h and only start sending home kids after that if there was a positive.

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by lpm » Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:33 am

Is flu far less asymptomatic than Covid?

Is it possible for a child to have flu with zero or minimal symptoms? It's the high frequency of invisible Covid in kids that's the underlying problem.
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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by AMS » Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:39 pm

lpm wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:33 am
Is flu far less asymptomatic than Covid?

Is it possible for a child to have flu with zero or minimal symptoms? It's the high frequency of invisible Covid in kids that's the underlying problem.
Hmm.
https://www.nhs.uk/news/medical-practic ... -symptoms/

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by AMS » Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:43 pm

But it's also more complicated, because people who are re-infected by a flu strain they've seen previously (or been vaccinated against) will show a rise in antibody titres but little or no symptoms. Something similar was seen recently for covid in Hong Kong, picked up in a PCR test. I don't know whether these people would be infectious to others.

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by gosling » Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:41 pm

My 73-year-old mum has always refused the flu jab, but after a nasty virus last year and the ongoing covid-19 situation, is going to do it this year. So, silver linings and all that.

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by Millennie Al » Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:56 am

Gfamily wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:06 am
Millennie Al wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:42 am

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... PP9tYU1YXY

I don't even have to read that to know it's very likely wrong. The people who are consistently targetted for annual flu vaccinations are the elderly, so if the hypothesis were true, they'd be largely immune to Covid-19. Obviously, they're not, so the hypothesis is very highly unlikely.
Except that the elderly who get the flu vaccination, typically get them early, so would have had their flu immune response months earlier than their Covid infection.

Maybe reading the paper would have been worthwhile.
If the vaccination has lost its effect after only a few months, it's pretty worthless.

And, I'll also point out that saying that I don't have to read the article does not mean that I haven't. The article is suggesting a treatment which is completely untested, which is completely wrong. The correct course, if the authors believe that the treatment will work, is to suggest that a study be done to test its effectiveness. Of course, the first step would be to identify which flu vaccine to test, which further undermines the hypothesis. Why should a vaccine protect better against Covid-19 that against other flu strains?
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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by discovolante » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:45 pm

Had mine today, I got it for free for ongoing mysterious reasons. My GP receptionist reckoned it's free for me this year because of covid because I'm coeliac, or something. Coeliac UK does say that about 30% of coeliacs have hyposplenism which could f.ck you up if you get covid, but I think it's more likely to be older people who took decades to get diagnosed. I feel a bit bad taking a free jab but erm yeah.

Anyway it was something of a military operation, it was at a local primary care centre rather than my GP, the inside of which is a bit like the inside of a shopping centre. I got stopped at the door and asked about covid symptoms, then had to go to a table several meters away for a man to fill in a form and give me hand sanitizer, then to another trolley several meters further down for the nurse to give me the jab, all standing up, then had to follow a one way system out to the fire exist and press the little lever to get out. Which may explain the hand sanitiser because I didn't touch anything else.

Anyway it has totally f.cked me today, I've crashed on the sofa and just slept for an hour and a half, and my arm is really sore.

Also I had to get the bus back so the cost/benefit analysis bit was a bit weird, but it was practically empty and most of the windows were open so...
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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by nezumi » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:40 pm

I normally get a free flu jab every year because I have asthma and a history of severe complications. However, I'm shielding from Covid. So I actually have no idea how I can get a jab this year, seeing as I can't leave the house.

Having said that, surely shielding means I shouldn't catch either.

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by bolo » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:30 pm

I got mine at the beginning of October, free from my employer. It's not a high risk workplace or anything. They just always offer them free for all employees, as a popular benefit and I suppose also because it reduces time off sick.

Usually they set up in the lobby of our main building, with specified times based on the first letter of your surname. This year you had to reserve a time and then drive up and get jabbed through your car window. There were other options if you wanted to walk up rather than driving.

MrsBolo and BoloJr got theirs in a local drugstore, nearly all of which offer them on demand and "free", i.e. no charge other than whatever your insurance pays. I think that was before I got mine, so probably late September.

There doesn't seem to be any shortage here, but I don't know what you'd have to pay if you had to get it on your own and didn't have insurance.

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by mediocrity511 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:48 pm

nezumi wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:40 pm
I normally get a free flu jab every year because I have asthma and a history of severe complications. However, I'm shielding from Covid. So I actually have no idea how I can get a jab this year, seeing as I can't leave the house.

Having said that, surely shielding means I shouldn't catch either.
Your shielding letter should have said that it's essential that you attend any planned medical appointments, which would include the flu jab. You are also encouraged to still get out for exercise, it's more relaxed than last time


We've all had ours. I had a palava with the GP who insisted that family members of shielded patients weren't included, despite their very own website saying they were as well as the NHS one. They then spun some rubbish about how it meant I should get one, but the NHS wouldn't do it and the website was just saying that I could get one privately if I wanted (but that every other category listed could get an NHS one). Local chemist to the rescue though, who did it on the NHS and showed me the box on his paperwork for people in my situation.

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by Tessa K » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:59 pm

I paid for the flu jab at the end of September. I reckoned it was worth £13 to get it done rather than wait for some (then) unspecified future point when it became free for the people 50+. I had no side-effects other than a slightly sore arm for a day or so.

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by jimbob » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:46 pm

Dad had his the other day. He was impressed at how his doctors' surgery handled it. He was slightly concerned when they told him to wait outside the door as he didn't want the previous person to walk out just past him, but when he got into the room - he found it was a one-way system, going out through the open patio door into the garden.

I usually take up the offer of a flu jab at work (as that's less than 5 minutes on top of the waiting to check for allergic reactions afterwards).

This year I haven't, because I'm a low risk and I'm not really seeing anyone.
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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by Nickynockynoonoo » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:53 pm

We had ours done at a drive though at a local airport. Highly organised. A nurse each side for driver and passenger. Time slots and no queue.

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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by sTeamTraen » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:35 am

jimbob wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:46 pm
Dad had his the other day. He was impressed at how his doctors' surgery handled it. He was slightly concerned when they told him to wait outside the door as he didn't want the previous person to walk out just past him, but when he got into the room - he found it was a one-way system, going out through the open patio door into the garden.
That makes me wonder what the relative COVID-ification effects are of walking past someone at 50-100cm distance for a few seconds (perhaps being very polite, "After you", etc), versus entering a room --- perhaps without an open door to the garden --- where that person has been exhaling for the last 5 minutes.
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Re: Covid and flu jab

Post by jimbob » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:54 am

sTeamTraen wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:35 am
jimbob wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:46 pm
Dad had his the other day. He was impressed at how his doctors' surgery handled it. He was slightly concerned when they told him to wait outside the door as he didn't want the previous person to walk out just past him, but when he got into the room - he found it was a one-way system, going out through the open patio door into the garden.
That makes me wonder what the relative COVID-ification effects are of walking past someone at 50-100cm distance for a few seconds (perhaps being very polite, "After you", etc), versus entering a room --- perhaps without an open door to the garden --- where that person has been exhaling for the last 5 minutes.
Oh Dad's *very* aware of viruses - early in his career in MAFF (a few years before Opti) was in the 1967 Foot and Mouth outbreak. At the time, they thought it had an animal vector, but the staff on the ground started predicting the next farm by looking at the prevailing wind. They also spotted that the milk tanker was carrying the infection but again it took some time to work it out the mechanism as it was heavily disinfected. It was the vacuum venting air from the tank.

Those are exactly the sort of questions he had been thinking of.
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