The Next Pandemic: A meaty issue

Covid-19 discussion, bring your own statistics
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Bird on a Fire
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Re: The Next Pandemic: A meaty issue

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:50 pm

shpalman wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:45 pm
shpalman wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:32 am
Gfamily wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:40 pm


Their market has dropped off considerably as a result of the Avian Flu restrictions requiring that flocks be kept indoors*, so they're looking to widen the appeal.


*I think - don't quote me on this.
One million culled in bid to halt spread of bird flu in Lincolnshire
An Avian Influenza Prevention Zone, requiring all bird owners to keep their flocks indoors, is in force across the UK, said Defra.
Aren't they supposed to open the windows every so often?
Wild birds migrate to the UK from mainland Europe during the winter so it is vital to not allow wild birds to mix with chickens, ducks, geese or other birds, she said.
Didn't they just abolish the pre-departure testing requirement etc.
Human case of bird flu detected in the UK
Good news everyone!

It would be fun to have multiple overlapping pandemics caused by eating animals.
You can shove your climate crisis up your arse!

Take thy beak from out my heart, and take thy form from off my door.

Millennie Al
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Re: The Next Pandemic: A meaty issue

Post by Millennie Al » Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:05 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:50 pm
Good news everyone!

It would be fun to have multiple overlapping pandemics caused by eating animals.
There are no pandemics caused by eating animals. Pandemics are caused by two things: people living in close proximity to one another, and people living in close proximity to animals. The latter is nicely illustrated by the avian flu story. More details here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... n-is-named which tells us that Mr. Gosling caught it from his pet ducks which he had no intention of eating or letting anyone else eat.
Covid-19 - Don't catch it: don't spread it.

monkey
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Re: The Next Pandemic: A meaty issue

Post by monkey » Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:54 am

Millennie Al wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:05 am
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:50 pm
Good news everyone!

It would be fun to have multiple overlapping pandemics caused by eating animals.
There are no pandemics caused by eating animals. Pandemics are caused by two things: people living in close proximity to one another, and people living in close proximity to animals. The latter is nicely illustrated by the avian flu story. More details here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... n-is-named which tells us that Mr. Gosling caught it from his pet ducks which he had no intention of eating or letting anyone else eat.
Does eating animals put people in closer proximity to them or further away?

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dyqik
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Re: The Next Pandemic: A meaty issue

Post by dyqik » Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:05 am

monkey wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:54 am
Millennie Al wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:05 am
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:50 pm


Good news everyone!

It would be fun to have multiple overlapping pandemics caused by eating animals.
There are no pandemics caused by eating animals. Pandemics are caused by two things: people living in close proximity to one another, and people living in close proximity to animals. The latter is nicely illustrated by the avian flu story. More details here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... n-is-named which tells us that Mr. Gosling caught it from his pet ducks which he had no intention of eating or letting anyone else eat.
Does eating animals put people in closer proximity to them or further away?
I don't eat dogs or cats, but they're the closest mammals to me.

Next is raccoons, squirrels, mice, chipmunks, skunks, and white tailed deer.

Farmers using draft animals for hauling and plowing for crops probably spend more time in close contact with animals than those raising animals for meat.

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: The Next Pandemic: A meaty issue

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:32 am

Yes, proximity to humans is important, but the density of commercial flocks makes a difference too. A few thousand chickens breathing each others' sh.t in a shed breeds way more germs than the same quantity of wild birds. The routine use of antibiotics in many parts of the world will come back to haunt us too.

Animal agriculture is also the major driver of tropical forest fragmentation, which is implicated in exposing naive human populations to novel zoonoses.

It's not just meat - the cages of mustelids in the Wuhan market were for pelts. But far more animals are raised for meat so it seems fair to single it out IMHO.
You can shove your climate crisis up your arse!

Take thy beak from out my heart, and take thy form from off my door.

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: The Next Pandemic: A meaty issue

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:40 am

dyqik wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:05 am
Farmers using draft animals for hauling and plowing for crops probably spend more time in close contact with animals than those raising animals for meat.
Rather depends on the farm. The bucolic idyll of free-ranging grazers you're imagining, sure, but not the typical megasheds crammed full of animals. Humans are in there all the time splashing through fluids, inspecting orifices etc. In poor countries pigs and chickens are often fed sewage, so the close contact goes both ways.

Close contact with one trusty burro while you trek round some fields is much lower pandemic risk than 2m high stacks of caged ducks.
You can shove your climate crisis up your arse!

Take thy beak from out my heart, and take thy form from off my door.

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Woodchopper
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Re: The Next Pandemic: A meaty issue

Post by Woodchopper » Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:27 am

The people living closest to animals are subsistence farmers and others in the least developed countries. They’re typically living in the same physical spaces as animals like goats or chickens as they can’t afford multiple dedicated buildings or plots to separate the animals from the people. Their homes also involve close proximity to rats, mice and other non-domesticated animals. With bigger animals like cattle they’re not living in the same physical space but it’s usually necessary for someone to be with the herd all day.
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:32 am
Yes, proximity to humans is important, but the density of commercial flocks makes a difference too. A few thousand chickens breathing each others' sh.t in a shed breeds way more germs than the same quantity of wild birds. The routine use of antibiotics in many parts of the world will come back to haunt us
I agree. A shed full of thousands of chickens resembles a respiratory virus factory.

Millennie Al
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Re: The Next Pandemic: A meaty issue

Post by Millennie Al » Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:39 am

monkey wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:54 am
Does eating animals put people in closer proximity to them or further away?
The fact that you can buy New Zealand lamb in the UK shows that distance to the animal is no barrier to eating it. The Black Death spread using fleas on rats, but people neither ate the fleas nor the rats (well, not routinely) and would have been at least as likely to have rats if they ate only grain and other plants as if they also ate meat. The very effective spread of Covid on the Diamond Princess shows that proximity to animals is completely unnecessary for a pandemic to spread - other people are quite sufficient.
Covid-19 - Don't catch it: don't spread it.

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Re: The Next Pandemic: A meaty issue

Post by Herainestold » Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:29 am

Millennie Al wrote:
Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:39 am
monkey wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:54 am
Does eating animals put people in closer proximity to them or further away?
The fact that you can buy New Zealand lamb in the UK shows that distance to the animal is no barrier to eating it. The Black Death spread using fleas on rats, but people neither ate the fleas nor the rats (well, not routinely) and would have been at least as likely to have rats if they ate only grain and other plants as if they also ate meat. The very effective spread of Covid on the Diamond Princess shows that proximity to animals is completely unnecessary for a pandemic to spread - other people are quite sufficient.
Thats not the argument. The argument is that living in close proximity to animals allows zoonotic diseases to cross over from animals to people, like that guy getting bird flu from his ducks. Once it is established in the human population, it is free to propagate without any assistance from animals.
Dark days lie ahead.

Al Capone Junior
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Re: The Next Pandemic: A meaty issue

Post by Al Capone Junior » Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:40 am

Thanks for the invitation to blather
Go on.. Please. Do elaborate. In great detail. We've all got our pencils ready!

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