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Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:04 pm
by Woodchopper
JCVI statement on COVID-19 vaccination of children and young people aged 12 to 17 years: 15 July 2021
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -july-2021
Explains the rationale for not recommending vaccinating children
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:14 am
by shpalman
has the UK run out of Pfizers?
Bit of a problem if you only have AstraZenecas left but you decided not to give them to young people, whose turn it is to get vaccinated now.
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:09 pm
by headshot
shpalman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:14 am
has the UK run out of Pfizers?
Bit of a problem if you only have AstraZenecas left but you decided not to give them to young people, whose turn it is to get vaccinated now.
He's drawing some pretty hefty conclusions from some pretty ropey data sources.
Anecdata: A few vaccinator friends of mine has said that they have the doses, just not many more willing arms to put them in. The issue with first doses seems to be weak demand, not weak supply.
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:09 pm
by jdc
Maybe we have run out of Pfizers but not mRNAs as we still have Modernas:
Jon Worth wrote:Follow up 2
@PaulMainwood
says my point about mRNA shortage for adults is wrong. There’s enough Moderna to go around. I trust he’s right about this, but if reticence about vaccines is the reason there… then is that worse still?
UK Gov are refusing to answer questions about supply (for security reasons), but it's possible we've received more than we expected - in June a government that is less worried about the security implications than ours said that
Moderna will increase its deliveries to 1.33 million doses a week in July from 733,000 previously expected, raising the figure to 2.57 million a week in August and 2.95 million a week in September
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ge ... 021-06-27/
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:25 pm
by shpalman
@jneill on twitter is following the case and hospitalization rate in chidren.
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:55 pm
by Woodchopper
European countries are almost evenly split on whether to administer coronavirus vaccinations to teenagers as alarm mounts on the continent about a possible fourth wave of infections.
Sixteen countries, including France and Italy, are now vaccinating children above the age of 12 or plan to do so; while 17 countries have decided against, or will only jab teenagers, if they have serious underlying health conditions.
Another four countries remain undecided.
https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandem ... -teenagers
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:57 pm
by Woodchopper
Crossing the Rubicon: a Fine Line between Waiting and Vaccinating Adolescents against COVID-19
https://www.journalofinfection.com/arti ... 1/fulltext
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:21 am
by Woodchopper
Risk of Myocarditis from COVID-19 Infection in People Under Age 20: A Population-Based Analysis
Young males infected with the virus are up 6 times more likely to develop myocarditis as those who have received the vaccine.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 21260998v1
If confirmed would be evidence in favour of vaccination.
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:48 pm
by shpalman
UK children aged 16 and 17 expected to be offered Covid vaccine
Of course some countries are already vaccinating 12 and above.
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:26 pm
by Herainestold
Woodchopper wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:21 am
Risk of Myocarditis from COVID-19 Infection in People Under Age 20: A Population-Based Analysis
Young males infected with the virus are up 6 times more likely to develop myocarditis as those who have received the vaccine.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 21260998v1
If confirmed would be evidence in favour of vaccination.
I read somewhere that the risk of myocarditis in young males seems to be correlated with the second shot. It was suggested that for those people one shot would be an option.
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:57 pm
by shpalman
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:06 pm
by Bird on a Fire
The UK rollout is lagging behind much of the EU. Portugal, along with Malta, Belgium, Spain, Denmark and Ireland, all have more folk fully jabbed. The UK is even delivering fewer doses per day in absolute numbers, so it's not just because those are mostly countries with smaller populations.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... lout-slows
I guess hijacking vaccine supplies can only get you so far
Is it because the UK has more anti-vaxers than other countries, or is it just because the government doesn't give a crap about young people (see e.g. having "freedom day" before young people had a chance to get jabbed, even though they've been disproportionately exposed via work throughout the pandemic, not to mention the continuous avoidable f.ckups with education)?
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:16 pm
by Woodchopper
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:06 pm
The UK rollout is lagging behind much of the EU. Portugal, along with Malta, Belgium, Spain, Denmark and Ireland, all have more folk fully jabbed. The UK is even delivering fewer doses per day in absolute numbers, so it's not just because those are mostly countries with smaller populations.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... lout-slows
I guess hijacking vaccine supplies can only get you so far
Is it because the UK has more anti-vaxers than other countries, or is it just because the government doesn't give a crap about young people (see e.g. having "freedom day" before young people had a chance to get jabbed, even though they've been disproportionately exposed via work throughout the pandemic, not to mention the continuous avoidable f.ckups with education)?
I haven’t looked it up but one issue is likely to be whether a state is vaccinating children, and how long they’ve been vaccinating them. Hitherto the UK hasn’t, and has only just decided to vaccinate 16 and 17 year olds. A state, say, with a program to vaccinate 12-17 year olds and that started earlier would be able to easily vaccinate more of the total population.
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:18 pm
by Woodchopper
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:21 pm
by lpm
The UK program ended a month ago.
It's like saying sprinters are further down the track than Usain Bolt, a minute after Bolt crossed the line.
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:24 pm
by Woodchopper
lpm wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:21 pm
The UK program ended a month ago.
It's like saying sprinters are further down the track than Usain Bolt, a minute after Bolt crossed the line.
Britain just decided to do an extra lap:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58091693
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:40 pm
by Bird on a Fire
lpm wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:21 pm
The UK program ended a month ago.
It's like saying sprinters are further down the track than Usain Bolt, a minute after Bolt crossed the line.
Huh? The UK hadn't even offered complete doses to all adults a month ago.
If the race is vaccinating people over 18, the UK gave up before the finish line.
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:43 pm
by Bird on a Fire
Woodchopper wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:16 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:06 pm
The UK rollout is lagging behind much of the EU. Portugal, along with Malta, Belgium, Spain, Denmark and Ireland, all have more folk fully jabbed. The UK is even delivering fewer doses per day in absolute numbers, so it's not just because those are mostly countries with smaller populations.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... lout-slows
I guess hijacking vaccine supplies can only get you so far
Is it because the UK has more anti-vaxers than other countries, or is it just because the government doesn't give a crap about young people (see e.g. having "freedom day" before young people had a chance to get jabbed, even though they've been disproportionately exposed via work throughout the pandemic, not to mention the continuous avoidable f.ckups with education)?
I haven’t looked it up but one issue is likely to be whether a state is vaccinating children, and how long they’ve been vaccinating them. Hitherto the UK hasn’t, and has only just decided to vaccinate 16 and 17 year olds. A state, say, with a program to vaccinate 12-17 year olds and that started earlier would be able to easily vaccinate more of the total population.
Portugal definitely isn't doing children (yet). Not sure about the others.
The UK seemed to run out of steam somewhere in the 20-30s, but the question is why - unusually skeptical youngsters, or governmental indifference towards non-Tory voting demographics?
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:57 pm
by lpm
Don't forget the UK is deliberately keeping to 8 week gaps. Other countries give 2nd doses quicker but that could be less protective longer term.
It was the benefit of 1st doses for 18-30 that counted in the UK - appears to have stopped Delta's relentless rise. We desperately needed to finish first, due to over unlockdowning, and we did. EU countries could afford to go slower because they f.cked up delta less.
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:31 pm
by OffTheRock
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:43 pm
Woodchopper wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:16 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:06 pm
The UK rollout is lagging behind much of the EU. Portugal, along with Malta, Belgium, Spain, Denmark and Ireland, all have more folk fully jabbed. The UK is even delivering fewer doses per day in absolute numbers, so it's not just because those are mostly countries with smaller populations.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... lout-slows
I guess hijacking vaccine supplies can only get you so far
Is it because the UK has more anti-vaxers than other countries, or is it just because the government doesn't give a crap about young people (see e.g. having "freedom day" before young people had a chance to get jabbed, even though they've been disproportionately exposed via work throughout the pandemic, not to mention the continuous avoidable f.ckups with education)?
I haven’t looked it up but one issue is likely to be whether a state is vaccinating children, and how long they’ve been vaccinating them. Hitherto the UK hasn’t, and has only just decided to vaccinate 16 and 17 year olds. A state, say, with a program to vaccinate 12-17 year olds and that started earlier would be able to easily vaccinate more of the total population.
Portugal definitely isn't doing children (yet). Not sure about the others.
The UK seemed to run out of steam somewhere in the 20-30s, but the question is why - unusually skeptical youngsters, or governmental indifference towards non-Tory voting demographics?
UK 20-30 year olds have had the last year being told by media and politicians that covid doesn't affect young people and that only the old and the vulnerable are affected by it. Obviously the official NHS ads are different, but look at the messaging that's come from the central government and their favoured media outlets about how few people without an underlying condition have died, how young people have been making all the sacrifices to protect the elderly and vulnerable, how schools are safe because children/teens don't transmit covid and don't get very ill with it.
Don't think Boris et al had really considered how they'd go from that to trying to get 20-30 year olds to get vaccinated. Especially since they are currently dropping masks, getting rid of all restrictions and just generally declaring the end of covid at the same time as trying to vaccinate the last age groups. I can see why someone in their 20s might not get jabbed or might not have got round to it yet without necessarily being 'anti-vax'. Why bother too much for a disease that will barely make you ill at all.
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:57 pm
by Bird on a Fire
lpm wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:57 pm
Don't forget the UK is deliberately keeping to 8 week gaps. Other countries give 2nd doses quicker but that could be less protective longer term.
It was the benefit of 1st doses for 18-30 that counted in the UK - appears to have stopped Delta's relentless rise. We desperately needed to finish first, due to over unlockdowning, and we did. EU countries could afford to go slower because they f.cked up delta less.
That's true about the gaps. I've already been invited for my second one in Portugal exactly 28 days after the last - thoughas I'm in Iceland so I'll probably have a UK-length gap unless I can scrounge some Moderna here (apparently they are being very generous with students and temp workers etc).
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:07 am
by Herainestold
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:57 pm
lpm wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:57 pm
Don't forget the UK is deliberately keeping to 8 week gaps. Other countries give 2nd doses quicker but that could be less protective longer term.
It was the benefit of 1st doses for 18-30 that counted in the UK - appears to have stopped Delta's relentless rise. We desperately needed to finish first, due to over unlockdowning, and we did. EU countries could afford to go slower because they f.cked up delta less.
That's true about the gaps. I've already been invited for my second one in Portugal exactly 28 days after the last - thoughas I'm in Iceland so I'll probably have a UK-length gap unless I can scrounge some Moderna here (apparently they are being very generous with students and temp workers etc).
The evidence shows the 8 week gap to be efficacious. Depending on your circumstances I would wait. I have changed my mind on this, according to the results. Of course if you have an opportunity to get your second dose, please do it. Hope things are going well for you.
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 11:32 pm
by Herainestold
OffTheRock wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:31 pm
UK 20-30 year olds have had the last year being told by media and politicians that covid doesn't affect young people and that only the old and the vulnerable are affected by it. Obviously the official NHS ads are different, but look at the messaging that's come from the central government and their favoured media outlets about how few people without an underlying condition have died, how young people have been making all the sacrifices to protect the elderly and vulnerable, how schools are safe because children/teens don't transmit covid and don't get very ill with it.
Don't think Boris et al had really considered how they'd go from that to trying to get 20-30 year olds to get vaccinated. Especially since they are currently dropping masks, getting rid of all restrictions and just generally declaring the end of covid at the same time as trying to vaccinate the last age groups. I can see why someone in their 20s might not get jabbed or might not have got round to it yet without necessarily being 'anti-vax'. Why bother too much for a disease that will barely make you ill at all.
Until Delta that was basically true.The mortality was much higher in older age groups. Of course that is ignoring things such as Long Covid.
With Delta all bets are off, younger people and children are ending up in hospital, the vaccinated are getting infected and transmitting it on to other vaccinated people.
It is hard to message to younger people that you need to get the jab to protect yourself, but it doesm't mean you wont get sick, you still have to mask (double), pubs will be closed, lockdowns may return.
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK hospitalisation rates
Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:26 am
by jdc
Proportion of hospitalisations that are in children increasing, but I can't yet see an increase in the proportion of cases in children that lead to hospitalisation. Remind me to look tomorrow and see if I can find an update on this:
Re: Vaccine rollout in the UK
Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:55 pm
by jimbob
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:40 pm
lpm wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:21 pm
The UK program ended a month ago.
It's like saying sprinters are further down the track than Usain Bolt, a minute after Bolt crossed the line.
Huh? The UK hadn't even offered complete doses to all adults a month ago.
If the race is vaccinating people over 18, the UK gave up before the finish line.
And? You're saying that as though it would be surprising.
Anecdata, but my adult kids have their second doses booked, but not yet done.