Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Covid-19 discussion, bring your own statistics
User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 7167
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:45 pm

monkey wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:39 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:16 pm
I can't help but think that if two countries' governments just swapped electorates you'd still get all kinds of horse-trading. The powerful elites of each state would just lobby the other electorate, who'd be less informed and less motivated to resist. "Let us open this mine and we'll build some new schools," kind of thing.
At the moment, they just open the mine.
Well, they still have to get permission from whatever regulatory processes are in place. I don't see how making those processes accountable* to people on the other side of the planet would strengthen them.

*Well, as accountable as they currently are to people in the same country, which is often minimally.
He has the grace of a swan, the wisdom of an owl, and the eye of an eagle—ladies and gentlemen, this man is for the birds!

User avatar
Sciolus
Catbabel
Posts: 763
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:42 pm

Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by Sciolus » Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:45 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:16 pm
Supra-governmental organisations with democratic mandates are a little less vulnerable to that kind of thing, at least for setting minimum standards.
I always think that one of the great things about how the EU works is that (a) it needs to get agreement from counries across Europe, north and south, west and east, and (b) the decision-making process is largely detached from the electoral cycle of any given country; with the result that it needs a very broad consensus for whatever it does.

User avatar
shpalman
Light of Blast
Posts: 5573
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond

Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by shpalman » Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:14 pm

High-income countries 'have ordered twice as many jabs as needed', says ex-NZ PM

Of course they did. It allowed the vaccine manufacturers to invest in production and hedged the bet about which ones would work and actually arrive (glares over glasses at AstraZeneca).

But we haven't received even all of the Pfizer doses yet. Most of the EU is vaccinating as fast as the doses arrive and has similar coverage of its population, which is about 60% at least one dose and 50% both doses. (Vaccinating everyone of age 12 or older means ~90% of the population.)

I know we're not safe until we're all safe, but I'm proportionally safer if it's the people nearest me who get the other doses. On the other hand, the UK buying doses from India and then only donating doses to Africa when they're about to expire, that isn't really a good look.

covax has shipped over 150 million doses
molto tricky

Herainestold
Dorkwood
Posts: 1345
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by Herainestold » Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:23 am

shpalman wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:14 pm
High-income countries 'have ordered twice as many jabs as needed', says ex-NZ PM

Of course they did. It allowed the vaccine manufacturers to invest in production and hedged the bet about which ones would work and actually arrive (glares over glasses at AstraZeneca).

But we haven't received even all of the Pfizer doses yet. Most of the EU is vaccinating as fast as the doses arrive and has similar coverage of its population, which is about 60% at least one dose and 50% both doses. (Vaccinating everyone of age 12 or older means ~90% of the population.)

I know we're not safe until we're all safe, but I'm proportionally safer if it's the people nearest me who get the other doses. On the other hand, the UK buying doses from India and then only donating doses to Africa when they're about to expire, that isn't really a good look.

covax has shipped over 150 million doses
NZ is the only developed country to do the right thing on this issue. They sealed the border, locked down hard, and pretty well surpressed the virus within the country. They have vaccinated a little over a million people while donating 1.6 million doses to covax. They can be generous with vaccine donations because their own population is safe. Well done NZ!
Vaccination saves lives. Lockdowns stop transmission.We need both to end this pandemic.

User avatar
shpalman
Light of Blast
Posts: 5573
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond

Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by shpalman » Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:15 am

UK set to ‘hoard’ up to 210m doses of Covid vaccine while opposing a temporary waiver to intellectual property rights for Covid-19 vaccines that would allow more companies abroad to manufacture the doses themselves.
only 256.6m jabs will be needed to fulfil the expected demand of vaccinating all over-16s and giving a booster dose to the most vulnerable in autumn.
I've no idea how they get that number for a country with 66 million people in which 75% of adults (considering 53 million adults) are already double-dosed; you'd need about 20 million more doses to finish the adults if they all wanted doses, otherwise 7-8 million to give the second dose to at least those who have had a first dose. It would only be a few million more if you decided to not let teenagers be a reservoir for future covid outbreaks.
molto tricky

User avatar
Fishnut
Dorkwood
Posts: 1584
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:15 pm
Location: UK

Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by Fishnut » Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:54 pm

WHO say that over 75% of the vaccine doses available have been administered in only 10 countries. Low-income countries have received just over 1%.
it's okay to say "I don't know"

User avatar
shpalman
Light of Blast
Posts: 5573
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond

Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by shpalman » Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:47 pm

The Guardian reports that
The Associated Press reports that the international system to share coronavirus vaccines was supposed to guarantee that low and middle-income countries could get doses “without being last in line and at the mercy of unreliable donations, but it has not worked out that way.” The UK is among those who should shoulder much of the blame, it reports.
a report which reports wrote:Under Covax, countries were supposed to give money so vaccines could be set aside, both as donations to poor countries and as an insurance policy for richer ones to buy doses if theirs fell through. Some rich countries, including those in the EU, calculated that they had more than enough doses available through bilateral deals and ceded their allocated Covax doses to poorer countries.

But others, including Britain, tapped into the meagre supply of Covax doses themselves, despite being among the countries that had reserved most of the world’s available vaccines. In the meantime, billions of people in poor countries have yet to receive a single dose.
“The government is a strong champion of Covax,” the UK said, not understanding the point of it, “especially when we can get a bunch of extra vaccines from it.”
molto tricky

User avatar
shpalman
Light of Blast
Posts: 5573
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond

Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by shpalman » Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:58 pm

... oh and if anything has "fallen through" it's been EU deliveries of the sh.tty British not-actually-useful-to-anyone AstraZeneca vaccine.
molto tricky

User avatar
bob sterman
Catbabel
Posts: 668
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:25 pm

Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by bob sterman » Sat Aug 14, 2021 5:02 pm

shpalman wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:58 pm
... oh and if anything has "fallen through" it's been EU deliveries of the sh.tty British not-actually-useful-to-anyone AstraZeneca vaccine.
Not being dead is quite useful.

Just posted in the AZ thread...data from Chile...
Chris Preston wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 6:02 am
Regarding the AstraZeneca vaccine, effectiveness results 14 days after the second dose, among a cohort of 2,380,000 individuals over the age of 16 affiliated to FONASA were:

68.68% effectiveness in preventing symptomatic COVID-19
100% effectiveness in preventing hospitalization
100% effectiveness in preventing ICU admission
100% effectiveness in preventing death

https://chilereports.cl/en/news/2021/08 ... -and-death

User avatar
shpalman
Light of Blast
Posts: 5573
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond

Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by shpalman » Sat Aug 14, 2021 5:30 pm

Well it might have saved a lot of people in the EU had the trials tested it properly on older people and had they actually delivered the doses they said they would.
molto tricky

User avatar
headshot
Catbabel
Posts: 766
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:40 am

Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by headshot » Sat Aug 14, 2021 5:54 pm

It might also have been administered more in the EU if European leaders hadn’t made such absurd claims about its safety, thus scaring people into avoiding it.

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 7167
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:13 pm

Interesting interview with the Submarine Commander who ran Portugal's world-leading vaccination drive - in particular, what comes next?

He says the priority should be vaccinating poorer countries, rather than locking up more doses in boosters for the rich.

Worth a read https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... ion-covid/
He has the grace of a swan, the wisdom of an owl, and the eye of an eagle—ladies and gentlemen, this man is for the birds!

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 7167
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:28 pm

The USA, meanwhile, donates 15 million of the doses it hoarded to the trash, because its moron quotient is larger than hoped.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... -shortages
He has the grace of a swan, the wisdom of an owl, and the eye of an eagle—ladies and gentlemen, this man is for the birds!

Herainestold
Dorkwood
Posts: 1345
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by Herainestold » Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:17 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:28 pm
The USA, meanwhile, donates 15 million of the doses it hoarded to the trash, because its moron quotient is larger than hoped.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... -shortages
Meanwhile China has exported a billion vaccines to the developing countries.
The data analytics company, Airfinity, has tracked global production, and estimates that China has exported commercially 1.1 billion doses (as of 8 October) of its vaccines to 123 countries (as either bulk substances or finished doses).
https://www.bbc.com/news/58808889.amp
Vaccination saves lives. Lockdowns stop transmission.We need both to end this pandemic.

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 7167
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:22 pm

There's definitely a soft power game being lost right now.
He has the grace of a swan, the wisdom of an owl, and the eye of an eagle—ladies and gentlemen, this man is for the birds!

User avatar
bob sterman
Catbabel
Posts: 668
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:25 pm

Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by bob sterman » Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:52 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:28 pm
The USA, meanwhile, donates 15 million of the doses it hoarded to the trash, because its moron quotient is larger than hoped.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... -shortages
Obviously not good but also not likely a major contributing factor to lack of doses in other parts of the world.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/am ... h-n1278211
The number of doses that went to waste is a small fraction of the more than 438 million doses that were distributed in the country as of Tuesday and the 111.7 million additional doses the U.S. had given to other countries as of Aug. 3..
And a major reason for the wastage is this...
One contributing factor to vaccine waste is the way the vaccines are packaged. Most vaccines for other illnesses come in single-dose vials. But, depending on the equipment used to draw a dose, Moderna’s Covid vaccine has up to 15 doses in a vial, while Pfizer’s has up to six and Johnson & Johnson’s has up to five.

Once a vial is punctured — for example, if a customer requests a vaccination at a retail pharmacy — the clock starts ticking. A vial of Moderna’s vaccine has to be discarded 12 hours after it’s punctured, while Pfizer’s and Johnson & Johnson’s have to be discarded after six hours.

The high number of doses in each vial and the relatively short timeframe for using a vial once it’s been punctured likely contributed to unused doses going to waste.

Post Reply