Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

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Herainestold
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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by Herainestold » Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:29 pm

shpalman wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:00 pm
COVAX is also teh fail

We could discuss if India might have been ever so slightly better off at this point if it hadn't sent all those doses to the UK.
Covax is failing because of reliance on AZ, same reason as EU failing. America is relying on Pfizer and strict export control on vaccines and it is working.
Covax should have relied on Sinovac or Sputnik rather than on AZ.
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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by Herainestold » Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:40 pm

The developing world is going to be vaccinated by Russia and China as the capitalists hoard vaccines.
The West hasn’t so much lost this fight as forfeited it. The World Health Organization Global Vaccine Access Fund, or Covax, amounts to a clearinghouse for the West’s leftovers. The Biden administration has pledged some $4 billion to Covax, but the WHO’s director-general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, acknowledges that “when there are no vaccines to buy, money is irrelevant.”

Arellano has pointed out that it’s not just access to ample supply that’s tilting the field in Moscow’s favor: It’s how the Russians approach supply agreements. Russia makes sure to portray vaccine supply deals not as charity, but as partnerships among equals. Giving the leaders of poor countries the chance to say “I’m doing something about this” is almost as big a prize as the shots themselves, he says.

Sputnik V’s successes keep mounting. The European Union’s shambolic vaccine roll-out has brought even some member countries like Slovakia, Hungary, Greece, and the Czech Republic knocking on Moscow’s door. Each has had to negotiate unilaterally for its share. Italy and Spain are now considering doing the same, and the European Medicines Agency has had no choice but to formally consider certifying the Russian vaccine, softening its line in the wake of Crimea and Navalny.
https://www.persuasion.community/p/sput ... X-JwhCqoE8
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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by Sciolus » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:09 pm

Certainly, Russia and China are using their vaccines as weapons of soft power, while the West give priority to their own citizens. But saying "The developing world is going to be vaccinated by Russia and China" is premature given they they haven't actually delivered much more than words as yet.

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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by Herainestold » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:28 pm

Sciolus wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:09 pm
Certainly, Russia and China are using their vaccines as weapons of soft power, while the West give priority to their own citizens. But saying "The developing world is going to be vaccinated by Russia and China" is premature given they they haven't actually delivered much more than words as yet.
Argentina becomes the first country in South America to produce Russia’s Sputnik V vaccine. The first shipment of Sputnik V is promised to Peru by May. Some 11,000 Sputnik V doses reach North Macedonia, while Tunisia begins administering 30,000 doses, and 1.7 million more are promised to Bolivia by May. The African Union confirms it has received an offer of 300 million doses from Russia, which has already signed agreements to produce tens of millions of doses in China, Brazil, Iran and Serbia.
https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-03-22/C ... index.html
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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by Sciolus » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:10 pm

promised... promised... offer... agreements...

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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:15 am

Sciolus wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:10 pm
promised... promised... offer... agreements...
They are already producing it in Argentina. I'd say it's beyond promises. https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/ ... 021-04-20/

Rolling out production regionally is going to be necessary to produce enough doses. The West is blocking this using intellectual property laws, whereas Russia seems to be facilitating it.

Seeing as the Western pharma companies have been claiming they're selling it at cost price, I don't quite understand why it's any skin off their nose to allow another factory to make it. But maintaining a tight grip over their patents - using government power to do so - is going to kill hundreds of thousands of people.

Nice job, greed and capitalism.
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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by shpalman » Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:39 am

ReiThera said the other day that they'd be willing to use their facilities to help produce any of the currently approved vaccines while their own one is still in trial.

But the AstraZeneca one is being produced at at least four sites, and while they don't link to who the other three are (but helpfully link the words "active substance" in case anyone doesn't know that the active substance means the substance in a medicine which is active) the one they're talking about in this link is Halix in Leiden, i.e. not a new AstraZeneca factory.

So to some extent the vaccine companies are getting other companies to make vaccine for them already.

There are already deals to make Sputnik in Lombardy.
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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by Millennie Al » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:52 am

Herainestold wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:40 pm
The developing world is going to be vaccinated by Russia and China as the capitalists hoard vaccines.
China is one of the most extreme capitalist countries.
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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by Millennie Al » Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:04 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:15 am
Seeing as the Western pharma companies have been claiming they're selling it at cost price, I don't quite understand why it's any skin off their nose to allow another factory to make it. But maintaining a tight grip over their patents - using government power to do so - is going to kill hundreds of thousands of people.

Nice job, greed and capitalism.
You must have missed the publicity regarding AstraZenica and their production difficulties and missed deliveries. Manufacture of a novel vaccine is difficult, and if it goes wrong there is bad publicity. If it goes badly wrong, it can kill people. Given what has happened with regard to AZ specificially - see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56570364 - other manufacturers would be totally insane to work for anything other than profit as it's clear that that is all that they can expect.
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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by bob sterman » Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:54 am

Herainestold wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:29 pm
Covax is failing because of reliance on AZ, same reason as EU failing. America is relying on Pfizer and strict export control on vaccines and it is working.
Covax should have relied on Sinovac or Sputnik rather than on AZ.
Chile relied heavily on Sinovac. Didn't work very well.

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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by shpalman » Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:09 am

molto tricky

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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by Bird on a Fire » Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:58 am

Millennie Al wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:04 am
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:15 am
Seeing as the Western pharma companies have been claiming they're selling it at cost price, I don't quite understand why it's any skin off their nose to allow another factory to make it. But maintaining a tight grip over their patents - using government power to do so - is going to kill hundreds of thousands of people.

Nice job, greed and capitalism.
You must have missed the publicity regarding AstraZenica and their production difficulties and missed deliveries. Manufacture of a novel vaccine is difficult, and if it goes wrong there is bad publicity. If it goes badly wrong, it can kill people. Given what has happened with regard to AZ specificially - see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56570364 - other manufacturers would be totally insane to work for anything other than profit as it's clear that that is all that they can expect.
Of course I haven't missed that. Either the world's supply will be met by a small number of factories still getting over production difficulties, or a larger number of factories which will also need to get over production difficulties (though presumably to a lesser extent, as there's some experience gained from the first factories).

Common sense suggests that lots of factories can produce more vaccines in a given time than few factories. Given that lots of countries have been asking for the expansion of vaccine manufacture, I think you're probably wrong that manufacturers would have to be "totally insane" to meet that demand.

The sooner the world starts expanding manufacturing, the sooner everyone can get vaccinated and we no longer have to worry about all the new strains being bred in places like India and Brazil while they wait for the rich western countries to have finished their vaccination programs. And, you know, save hundreds of thousands of lives.

Rich countries and vaccine patent-holders are currently acting like greedy selfish c.nts. I'm hardly the only person to have noticed.
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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by shpalman » Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:21 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:15 am
Seeing as the Western pharma companies have been claiming they're selling it at cost price, I don't quite understand why it's any skin off their nose to allow another factory to make it. But maintaining a tight grip over their patents - using government power to do so - is going to kill hundreds of thousands of people.

Nice job, greed and capitalism.
Obviously I don't know how it really works, but why should the "another factory" bother investing time and money setting up and debugging a production process if they're only at best going to get their costs back?
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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by Herainestold » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:39 pm

bob sterman wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:54 am
Herainestold wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:29 pm
Covax is failing because of reliance on AZ, same reason as EU failing. America is relying on Pfizer and strict export control on vaccines and it is working.
Covax should have relied on Sinovac or Sputnik rather than on AZ.
Chile relied heavily on Sinovac. Didn't work very well.
Chile found that with Sinovac it was necessary to give two doses to get an effective response. The first dose strategy as employed in the UK was not sufficent . Chile has now fully vaccinated, with two doses, more people as a proportion of the population, than the UK.
Chilean scientists are warning that China’s Sinovac vaccination, which is widely used in the developing world, offers “very weak” protection until after the second dose.

The study of 10.5 million people showed that the vaccine was just 16 per cent effective in guarding against Covid infection after one dose, rising to 67 per cent efficacy after the second dose.

The initial low efficacy helps to answer the vexing question facing Chile: why is the country experiencing a surge in cases, despite the fact that it has initiated one of the world’s fastest vaccine rollouts?
The number of daily cases in Chile reached a record high earlier this month, climbing to more than 9,000 for the first time since the pandemic began. Intensive care units in hospitals have been overwhelmed while most of the country’s 19 million inhabitants, who in January and February were encouraged to see friends and relatives during summer holidays in the Southern hemisphere, have been told to return to lockdown.
Chile's case numbers are starting to decrease now, with 30% of the population fully vaccinated and 40% with at least one dose.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/firs ... -n0df0pzg3
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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by Millennie Al » Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:22 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:58 am
Millennie Al wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:04 am
Given what has happened with regard to AZ specificially - see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56570364 - other manufacturers would be totally insane to work for anything other than profit as it's clear that that is all that they can expect.
Either the world's supply will be met by a small number of factories still getting over production difficulties, or a larger number of factories which will also need to get over production difficulties (though presumably to a lesser extent, as there's some experience gained from the first factories).

Common sense suggests that lots of factories can produce more vaccines in a given time than few factories.
When you are setting up novel and complex factories, you want your few experienced people to supervise the setup. Spread them too thinly and all you have is a lots of factories with none of them working. And in the case of many of these vaccines, it's not just the factory for one step in the process - it's multiple stages and sourcing the various ingredients, which are themselves in short supply.
Given that lots of countries have been asking for the expansion of vaccine manufacture, I think you're probably wrong that manufacturers would have to be "totally insane" to meet that demand.
I didn't say they would be insane to meet the demand: I said they would be insane to do so without making a profit.
The sooner the world starts expanding manufacturing, the sooner everyone can get vaccinated and we no longer have to worry about all the new strains being bred in places like India and Brazil while they wait for the rich western countries to have finished their vaccination programs. And, you know, save hundreds of thousands of lives.
The world started expanding manufacturing about a year ago. Pfizer, for example, was manufacturing its vaccine and stockpiling it before it was approved.
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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by tom p » Wed May 05, 2021 2:38 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:15 am
Sciolus wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:10 pm
promised... promised... offer... agreements...
They are already producing it in Argentina. I'd say it's beyond promises. https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/ ... 021-04-20/

Rolling out production regionally is going to be necessary to produce enough doses. The West is blocking this using intellectual property laws, whereas Russia seems to be facilitating it.

Seeing as the Western pharma companies have been claiming they're selling it at cost price, I don't quite understand why it's any skin off their nose to allow another factory to make it. But maintaining a tight grip over their patents - using government power to do so - is going to kill hundreds of thousands of people.

Nice job, greed and capitalism.
Only AZ have signed up to sell at cost, if memory serves.

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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by tom p » Wed May 05, 2021 2:43 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:28 pm
Sciolus wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:09 pm
Certainly, Russia and China are using their vaccines as weapons of soft power, while the West give priority to their own citizens. But saying "The developing world is going to be vaccinated by Russia and China" is premature given they they haven't actually delivered much more than words as yet.
Argentina becomes the first country in South America to produce Russia’s Sputnik V vaccine. The first shipment of Sputnik V is promised to Peru by May. Some 11,000 Sputnik V doses reach North Macedonia [POPULATION: 2.1 MILLION], while Tunisia begins administering 30,000 doses [POPULATION: 11.7 MILLION], and 1.7 million more are promised to Bolivia by May [POPULATION: 11.7 MILLION]. The African Union confirms it has received an offer of 300 million doses from Russia, which has already signed agreements to produce tens of millions of doses in China, Brazil, Iran and Serbia.
https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-03-22/C ... index.html
Populations added in bold by me.
Some of these deliveries are pathetically small, piddling amounts.
Also, I'm not sure what century you're in, but Russia and China are capitalist countries too

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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by tom p » Wed May 05, 2021 2:51 pm

Millennie Al wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:04 am
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:15 am
Seeing as the Western pharma companies have been claiming they're selling it at cost price, I don't quite understand why it's any skin off their nose to allow another factory to make it. But maintaining a tight grip over their patents - using government power to do so - is going to kill hundreds of thousands of people.

Nice job, greed and capitalism.
You must have missed the publicity regarding AstraZenica and their production difficulties and missed deliveries. Manufacture of a novel vaccine is difficult, and if it goes wrong there is bad publicity. If it goes badly wrong, it can kill people. Given what has happened with regard to AZ specificially - see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56570364 - other manufacturers would be totally insane to work for anything other than profit as it's clear that that is all that they can expect.
Thing is, if there's a massive global demand for something, and other companies are making rivals and so you have a limited time-window, licensing someone else to produce it & you get, say, a penny a jab, is just free money & you wouldn't otherwise get it.
I find it insane that at least the AZ & JnJ jabs haven't been licensed for manufacture in more plants.
Pfizer and Moderna I get - it's a novel and more complex manufacturing process, but these guys are using established tech that can be relatively easily replicated anywhere.
Poor countries should just ignore the patent and start making it within their own country for their people - they can offer AZ/Oxford/JnJ a licensing fee.
It's not like the USA is going to bomb a plant manufacturing the JnJ vaccine for the people of Algeria or Botswana or anywhere else in Africa, is it?

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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by jdc » Wed May 05, 2021 6:48 pm

AstraZeneca's reasoning here, plus criticism from Global Justice Now: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/medica ... li=BBoPWjQ
During a recent shareholder Q&A, chief executive Pascal Soriot said: “It’s important for everybody to understand that manufacturing a vaccine is incredibly complicated.

“There is no way, even if we give access to the technology and we told people ‘here is the recipe’, there is no way we could train these people to manufacture the vaccine because our engineers are flat out working with our existing partners.

“The solution is to increase the yield in the existing plants, not to create more plants, because we have no engineers to brief people and train them.”
The comments have drawn criticism from heath and human rights activists. Global Justice Now, a campaign group on issues of trade, health care and justice, said the company was “making excuses for their complicity in vaccine apartheid.”

Senior policy manager Heidi Chow also highlighted that AstraZeneca has refused for almost a year to join the WHO’s Covid-19 Technology Access Pool (CTAP), first established to facilitate technology and know-how sharing for vaccines and treatments.

“It’s utterly unacceptable to say that AstraZeneca cannot share their vaccine technology because they have no engineers,” she said.

“If they had openly licensed the vaccine and enabled technology transfer from the start or cooperated with the WHO, global production capacity could have already been scaled up by now.

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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by Herainestold » Thu May 06, 2021 3:29 am

jdc wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 6:48 pm
AstraZeneca's reasoning here, plus criticism from Global Justice Now: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/medica ... li=BBoPWjQ
During a recent shareholder Q&A, chief executive Pascal Soriot said: “It’s important for everybody to understand that manufacturing a vaccine is incredibly complicated.

“There is no way, even if we give access to the technology and we told people ‘here is the recipe’, there is no way we could train these people to manufacture the vaccine because our engineers are flat out working with our existing partners.

“The solution is to increase the yield in the existing plants, not to create more plants, because we have no engineers to brief people and train them.”
The comments have drawn criticism from heath and human rights activists. Global Justice Now, a campaign group on issues of trade, health care and justice, said the company was “making excuses for their complicity in vaccine apartheid.”

Senior policy manager Heidi Chow also highlighted that AstraZeneca has refused for almost a year to join the WHO’s Covid-19 Technology Access Pool (CTAP), first established to facilitate technology and know-how sharing for vaccines and treatments.

“It’s utterly unacceptable to say that AstraZeneca cannot share their vaccine technology because they have no engineers,” she said.

“If they had openly licensed the vaccine and enabled technology transfer from the start or cooperated with the WHO, global production capacity could have already been scaled up by now.
Screw the patents. Take over the plants and start making vaccine. It would be very satisfying to throw Pascal Soriot in the clink, but maybe he is best ignored
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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by tom p » Thu May 06, 2021 11:47 am

Herainestold wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 3:29 am
jdc wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 6:48 pm
AstraZeneca's reasoning here, plus criticism from Global Justice Now: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/medica ... li=BBoPWjQ
During a recent shareholder Q&A, chief executive Pascal Soriot said: “It’s important for everybody to understand that manufacturing a vaccine is incredibly complicated.

“There is no way, even if we give access to the technology and we told people ‘here is the recipe’, there is no way we could train these people to manufacture the vaccine because our engineers are flat out working with our existing partners.

“The solution is to increase the yield in the existing plants, not to create more plants, because we have no engineers to brief people and train them.”
The comments have drawn criticism from heath and human rights activists. Global Justice Now, a campaign group on issues of trade, health care and justice, said the company was “making excuses for their complicity in vaccine apartheid.”

Senior policy manager Heidi Chow also highlighted that AstraZeneca has refused for almost a year to join the WHO’s Covid-19 Technology Access Pool (CTAP), first established to facilitate technology and know-how sharing for vaccines and treatments.

“It’s utterly unacceptable to say that AstraZeneca cannot share their vaccine technology because they have no engineers,” she said.

“If they had openly licensed the vaccine and enabled technology transfer from the start or cooperated with the WHO, global production capacity could have already been scaled up by now.
Screw the patents. Take over the plants and start making vaccine. It would be very satisfying to throw Pascal Soriot in the clink, but maybe he is best ignored
No need to do that. It's not like AZ are on a go-slow or anything. It's more a case of 'screw the patents, let's build a plant and make it ourselves in <<insert country here>>'.
Yes, it's a complex process, but AZ aren't the only people in the world with engineers who work in pharma production. He's part right in that part of the solution is to increase yield in the existing plants, though. That would be one of the quickest ways to sort things.

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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu May 06, 2021 12:49 pm

Joe Biden agrees with me: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57004302
The US has thrown its support behind a move at the World Trade Organization (WTO) to temporarily lift patent protection for coronavirus vaccines.

India and South Africa proposed the plan, which they said would increase vaccine production around the world.

But drugs manufacturers argue it may not have the desired effect.

US Trade Representative Katherine Tai said that "extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures".

Ms Tai said the US would now embark on negotiations at the WTO to try to secure the waiver, but warned this could take time.

One hundred of the WTO's 164 states are said to be in favour, and a panel on intellectual property is expected to discuss the issue next month.

India and South Africa were the leading voices in a group of about 60 countries which for the last six months has been trying to get the patents on vaccines set aside.

However, they met with strong opposition from the previous US administration of Donald Trump, the UK and the EU. Mr Biden had proposed a waiver during the 2020 presidential election campaign.
EU is coming round too, apparently, so it's just the UK holding out to protect the (supposedly non-existent) profits of their chums at AZ.

I'm not sure how democratic the WTO is - surely 100/164 countries should be enough to get the f.ck on with it? Deal with the impotent whingeing from the UK later, if they want the optics of being a fully-vaccinated wealthy country trying to stop poor countries from saving their citizens' lives.
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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by tom p » Thu May 06, 2021 3:25 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 12:49 pm
Joe Biden agrees with me: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57004302
The US has thrown its support behind a move at the World Trade Organization (WTO) to temporarily lift patent protection for coronavirus vaccines.

India and South Africa proposed the plan, which they said would increase vaccine production around the world.

But drugs manufacturers argue it may not have the desired effect.

US Trade Representative Katherine Tai said that "extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures".

Ms Tai said the US would now embark on negotiations at the WTO to try to secure the waiver, but warned this could take time.

One hundred of the WTO's 164 states are said to be in favour, and a panel on intellectual property is expected to discuss the issue next month.

India and South Africa were the leading voices in a group of about 60 countries which for the last six months has been trying to get the patents on vaccines set aside.

However, they met with strong opposition from the previous US administration of Donald Trump, the UK and the EU. Mr Biden had proposed a waiver during the 2020 presidential election campaign.
EU is coming round too, apparently, so it's just the UK holding out to protect the (supposedly non-existent) profits of their chums at AZ.

I'm not sure how democratic the WTO is - surely 100/164 countries should be enough to get the f.ck on with it? Deal with the impotent whingeing from the UK later, if they want the optics of being a fully-vaccinated wealthy country trying to stop poor countries from saving their citizens' lives.
If someone breaks WTO rules, then the affected countries can apply sanctions of some kind. I'm reasonably sure that Johnson is not so stupid that he would be unable to see that sanctioning a country if they broke a patent to make a COVID vaccine for their own people would be a very bad look indeed.

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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by Herainestold » Fri May 07, 2021 12:13 am

AZ is supposedly not making profits off the vaccine. In light of recent news have any of the other manufacturers volunteered to forego patent protection for the duration? It makes me very angry to think of Pfizer profiting billions from this dire situation. Their profits should be confiscated and given to Covax
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Re: Vaccine rollout on Planet Earth: A "catastrophic moral failure"

Post by Millennie Al » Sat May 08, 2021 2:13 am

Herainestold wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 12:13 am
AZ is supposedly not making profits off the vaccine. In light of recent news have any of the other manufacturers volunteered to forego patent protection for the duration? It makes me very angry to think of Pfizer profiting billions from this dire situation. Their profits should be confiscated and given to Covax
So do you support the NHS 1% pay rise, or do you think it's too much? Presumably you don't want the NHS staff profiting from this dire situation either.
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