Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

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monkey
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by monkey » Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:59 pm

bob sterman wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:55 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:00 pm

In what could be a harbinger for Broadway’s post-Covid protocol, Springsteen on Broadway has announced that audience members must be vaccinated with an FDA-approved vaccine, a policy no doubt disappointing to the many Canadians and Europeans who have received the AstraZeneca vaccine.

Producers of Springsteen on Broadway announced Tuesday night that the show, which will begin performances on June 26 to become Broadway’s first post-shutdown arrival, will require the FDA-approved vaccines. To date, the FDA has approved vaccines by Moderna, Pfizer-BioNTech and Johnson & Johnson.
https://deadline.com/2021/06/springstee ... 234777046/
Next he'll be telling us you gotta get "Jabbed in the USA"
Not a joke for lots of international students. Many universities won't let you study in person without being jabbed with an FDA or WHO approved vaccine. Most seem to be saying you can have it done when you arrive in the US, but that means you have to wait the 5-6 weeks it takes to get "fully" vaccinated before turning up to lectures.

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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by Herainestold » Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:20 pm

monkey wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:59 pm


Not a joke for lots of international students. Many universities won't let you study in person without being jabbed with an FDA or WHO approved vaccine. Most seem to be saying you can have it done when you arrive in the US, but that means you have to wait the 5-6 weeks it takes to get "fully" vaccinated before turning up to lectures.
AZ is WHO approved, but not FDA approved.
Delta changes everything.

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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by monkey » Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:21 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:20 pm
monkey wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:59 pm


Not a joke for lots of international students. Many universities won't let you study in person without being jabbed with an FDA or WHO approved vaccine. Most seem to be saying you can have it done when you arrive in the US, but that means you have to wait the 5-6 weeks it takes to get "fully" vaccinated before turning up to lectures.
AZ is WHO approved, but not FDA approved.
Yes, but I wasn't just talking about the AZ one. Sorry if it's derailing but it seemed apt to make the point after the joke, as many, but not all, International students *will* have to get "jabbed in the USA". Though I am sure similar is happening in other countries.

This applies to any vaccine not on the list being used by the institution. Some universities/systems are saying "FDA approved", some are saying "WHO approved". Others are saying "approved by your local authority" and some aren't saying anything.

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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by sTeamTraen » Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:42 pm

bob sterman wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:55 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:00 pm

In what could be a harbinger for Broadway’s post-Covid protocol, Springsteen on Broadway has announced that audience members must be vaccinated with an FDA-approved vaccine, a policy no doubt disappointing to the many Canadians and Europeans who have received the AstraZeneca vaccine.

Producers of Springsteen on Broadway announced Tuesday night that the show, which will begin performances on June 26 to become Broadway’s first post-shutdown arrival, will require the FDA-approved vaccines. To date, the FDA has approved vaccines by Moderna, Pfizer-BioNTech and Johnson & Johnson.
https://deadline.com/2021/06/springstee ... 234777046/
Next he'll be telling us you gotta get "Jabbed in the USA"
I suspect that non-US residents who haven't had an FDA-approved vaccine aren't going to be getting into the country, never mind a specific show. It might turn out that over half of the UK has essentially been vaccinated with Betamax.

(I only found out today, although the article is a month old, that the Pfizer vaccine can now be stored in a fridge for a month, taking away another of AZ's ease-of-handling advantages.)
Something something hammer something something nail

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bolo
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by bolo » Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:42 am

sTeamTraen wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:42 pm
I suspect that non-US residents who haven't had an FDA-approved vaccine aren't going to be getting into the country
I don't think this is correct. Certainly it's possible to enter on a student visa without being vaccinated. The random few universities I've just checked all say on their websites that they'll provide vaccination after arrival, if needed, through their student health clinics.

ETA: Although as Monkey said upthread, unvaccinated arriving students will generally need to self-isolate until 2 weeks after their final dose.

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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by Herainestold » Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:07 am

bolo wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:42 am
sTeamTraen wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:42 pm
I suspect that non-US residents who haven't had an FDA-approved vaccine aren't going to be getting into the country
I don't think this is correct. Certainly it's possible to enter on a student visa without being vaccinated. The random few universities I've just checked all say on their websites that they'll provide vaccination after arrival, if needed, through their student health clinics.

ETA: Although as Monkey said upthread, unvaccinated arriving students will generally need to self-isolate until 2 weeks after their final dose.
If AZ jabbed students end up at a Uni requiring FDA approved shots will they have to get revaccinated with a USA approved vax?
Would double AZ double Pfizer give superior protection?
Delta changes everything.

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bolo
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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by bolo » Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:30 am

bolo wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:42 am
ETA: Although as Monkey said upthread, unvaccinated arriving students will generally need to self-isolate until 2 weeks after their final dose.
This bit of what I said only applies to universities that require vaccination, which isn't all of them. Sorry, especially to Monkey, for being unclear about that.

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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by monkey » Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:00 am

bolo wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:30 am
bolo wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:42 am
ETA: Although as Monkey said upthread, unvaccinated arriving students will generally need to self-isolate until 2 weeks after their final dose.
This bit of what I said only applies to universities that require vaccination, which isn't all of them. Sorry, especially to Monkey, for being unclear about that.
No apologies needed.

But yeah, this is the universities deciding, not the people who give out Visas. As far as I know, the travel restrictions don't have exemptions for being vaccinated and being vaccinated isn't a requirement for getting a Visa (yet), but I've heard certain types are hard to get because the embassies are restricting capacity. But I might've also missed an announcement.

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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by shpalman » Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:24 pm

AstraZeneca fails to deliver 120m doses

Apparently 10m is their "best effort" and the court somehow can't make their European factories work properly.
molto tricky

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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by WFJ » Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:23 pm

shpalman wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:24 pm
AstraZeneca fails to deliver 120m doses

Apparently 10m is their "best effort" and the court somehow can't make their European factories work properly.
There's probably not much point in them delivering them now anyway. A large number of people are refusing them and joining the waiting lists for BioNTech or Moderna.

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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by OffTheRock » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:00 am

shpalman wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:24 pm
AstraZeneca fails to deliver 120m doses

Apparently 10m is their "best effort" and the court somehow can't make their European factories work properly.
How bothered are the EU about that at this point? More AZ would be nice but they seem to have plenty of Pfizer/Moderna for now and if it did speed up the delivery of some of the vaccines over the past few months they’ve had some benefit. The biggest benefit to the EU at this point seems to be the court finding that AZ acted in bad faith and didn’t meet ‘best efforts’.

The reporting on this has been worse than expected though. The lesson seems to be ‘get your press release out first’.

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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by shpalman » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:06 am

OffTheRock wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:00 am
shpalman wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:24 pm
AstraZeneca fails to deliver 120m doses

Apparently 10m is their "best effort" and the court somehow can't make their European factories work properly.
How bothered are the EU about that at this point? More AZ would be nice but they seem to have plenty of Pfizer/Moderna for now and if it did speed up the delivery of some of the vaccines over the past few months they’ve had some benefit. The biggest benefit to the EU at this point seems to be the court finding that AZ acted in bad faith and didn’t meet ‘best efforts’.

The reporting on this has been worse than expected though. The lesson seems to be ‘get your press release out first’.
At this stage we just need a few AZ for second doses, basically. Can't put them in the rollout plan if they're only relevant for the limited proportion of older people who haven't been done yet but won't refuse it, and if there's no way of knowing how many will even arrive.
molto tricky

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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by shpalman » Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:07 pm

https://www.quicomo.it/attualita/corona ... enti-.html

Codacons, which is some sort of consumer protection agency, is launching a class action for anyone in Lombardy under 60 who got the AstraZeneca vaccine.
molto tricky

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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by bob sterman » Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:56 pm

shpalman wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:07 pm
https://www.quicomo.it/attualita/corona ... enti-.html

Codacons, which is some sort of consumer protection agency, is launching a class action for anyone in Lombardy under 60 who got the AstraZeneca vaccine.
According to a (possibly dodgy) Google translation - the class action will seek compensation for not just physical harm, but also distress - well "fear and anguish"..
Specifically, the action of Codacons aims to ask:
a) Compensation for non-pecuniary damage caused by the fear of getting sick due to having received the administration of the Astrazeneca vaccine authorized by the competent Italian authorities (damage now recognized by the Law for several years in particular following the well-known "Seveso case" of 1976). This damage can be quantified as a lump sum in the amount of 10,000 euros
The action seems to be aimed at Italian health authorities rather than Astrazeneca.

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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by shpalman » Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:16 am

Australia plans to stop using AstraZeneca Covid vaccine by October

To be fair in Europe we'll probably have stopped using it by then too, but that's because we'll have vaccinated everybody.
molto tricky

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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by WFJ » Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:41 am

shpalman wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:16 am
Australia plans to stop using AstraZeneca Covid vaccine by October

To be fair in Europe we'll probably have stopped using it by then too, but that's because we'll have vaccinated everybody.
They will start giving booster jabs once everyone is fully vaccinated. My guess is that these will all be Moderna, BioNTech or to-be-release newer vaccines.

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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by shpalman » Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:48 am

WFJ wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:41 am
shpalman wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:16 am
Australia plans to stop using AstraZeneca Covid vaccine by October

To be fair in Europe we'll probably have stopped using it by then too, but that's because we'll have vaccinated everybody.
They will start giving booster jabs once everyone is fully vaccinated. My guess is that these will all be Moderna, BioNTech or to-be-release newer vaccines.
Actually it occurs to me that given the anecdotes about the second Pfizer dose feeling worse than the first one, what's a third dose going to feel like?
molto tricky

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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by TAFKAsoveda » Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:08 pm

shpalman wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:48 am
WFJ wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:41 am
shpalman wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:16 am
Australia plans to stop using AstraZeneca Covid vaccine by October

To be fair in Europe we'll probably have stopped using it by then too, but that's because we'll have vaccinated everybody.
They will start giving booster jabs once everyone is fully vaccinated. My guess is that these will all be Moderna, BioNTech or to-be-release newer vaccines.
Actually it occurs to me that given the anecdotes about the second Pfizer dose feeling worse than the first one, what's a third dose going to feel like?
Personal anecdote alert:
My second dose of Pfizer was no worse than my first. I have had subsequent antibody testing and have made a good antibody response.

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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by headshot » Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:38 pm

TAFKAsoveda wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:08 pm
shpalman wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:48 am
WFJ wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:41 am


They will start giving booster jabs once everyone is fully vaccinated. My guess is that these will all be Moderna, BioNTech or to-be-release newer vaccines.
Actually it occurs to me that given the anecdotes about the second Pfizer dose feeling worse than the first one, what's a third dose going to feel like?
Personal anecdote alert:
My second dose of Pfizer was no worse than my first. I have had subsequent antibody testing and have made a good antibody response.
Had my second Pfizer yesterday evening. Just a sore arm today, no swollen lymph nodes or weird fatigue like after the first dose.

The nurse who jabbed me last night actually said that most people they had spoken to had fewer issues after Pfizer dose two.

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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by jdc » Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:36 pm

There was a table of side effects from AZ and Pfizer broken down by first/second dose. It's somewhere on this forum I think, but I cba to find it. They did find that generally people got more side-effects from AZ first dose than AZ second and the opposite for Pfizer.

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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by monkey » Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:01 pm

shpalman wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:48 am
WFJ wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:41 am
shpalman wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:16 am
Australia plans to stop using AstraZeneca Covid vaccine by October

To be fair in Europe we'll probably have stopped using it by then too, but that's because we'll have vaccinated everybody.
They will start giving booster jabs once everyone is fully vaccinated. My guess is that these will all be Moderna, BioNTech or to-be-release newer vaccines.
Actually it occurs to me that given the anecdotes about the second Pfizer dose feeling worse than the first one, what's a third dose going to feel like?
I have heard people say that people who have had The Covids have worse side effects on the first jab with the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines. Not sure if it's true or not, and I don't know of any study that says so. But if a dose of The Covids is equivalent to a jab in provoking a reaction, then the 3rd might not be so bad. Again, no idea if it's true or not, or if that's how immune systems work.

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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by jdc » Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:53 pm

jdc wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:36 pm
There was a table of side effects from AZ and Pfizer broken down by first/second dose. It's somewhere on this forum I think, but I cba to find it. They did find that generally people got more side-effects from AZ first dose than AZ second and the opposite for Pfizer.
OK, I can be arsed but I can't find it now.

Looking elsewhere, I did find this for Pfizer: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/i ... icity.html "Within each age group, the frequency and severity of systemic adverse events was higher after dose 2 than dose 1" (local reactions - swelling and redness more common after dose 2, pain more common after dose 1)

And this for AZ: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 1/fulltext "Fewer adverse events were reported after the boost vaccination than after the prime vaccination"

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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by jdc » Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:00 pm

monkey wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:01 pm
shpalman wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:48 am
WFJ wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:41 am


They will start giving booster jabs once everyone is fully vaccinated. My guess is that these will all be Moderna, BioNTech or to-be-release newer vaccines.
Actually it occurs to me that given the anecdotes about the second Pfizer dose feeling worse than the first one, what's a third dose going to feel like?
I have heard people say that people who have had The Covids have worse side effects on the first jab with the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines. Not sure if it's true or not, and I don't know of any study that says so. But if a dose of The Covids is equivalent to a jab in provoking a reaction, then the 3rd might not be so bad. Again, no idea if it's true or not, or if that's how immune systems work.
I've heard people say the opposite. That's the trouble with people, they're just not consistent.

I did find this general article on vaccine reactogenicity which might be vaguely interesting for some or none of you https://www.nature.com/articles/s41541-019-0132-6#Sec11

It does have this on pre-existing immunity:
With few exceptions,56 natural immunity has not been found to affect the overall safety profile of vaccines targeting the said pathogen. Efforts to correlate pre-vaccination antibody titres with the incidence of injection-site or systemic reactions following vaccination have not identified consistent associations.57,58,59
(Followed by some discussion of vaccines where repeated doses can lead to increased likelihood of reactions.)

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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by monkey » Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:15 pm

jdc wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:00 pm
I've heard people say the opposite. That's the trouble with people, they're just not consistent.
My life would be easier if they were.

Bring on the cloning!

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Re: Is it all over for the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Post by Martin_B » Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:31 am

jdc wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:53 pm
jdc wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:36 pm
There was a table of side effects from AZ and Pfizer broken down by first/second dose. It's somewhere on this forum I think, but I cba to find it. They did find that generally people got more side-effects from AZ first dose than AZ second and the opposite for Pfizer.
OK, I can be arsed but I can't find it now.

Looking elsewhere, I did find this for Pfizer: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/i ... icity.html "Within each age group, the frequency and severity of systemic adverse events was higher after dose 2 than dose 1" (local reactions - swelling and redness more common after dose 2, pain more common after dose 1)

And this for AZ: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 1/fulltext "Fewer adverse events were reported after the boost vaccination than after the prime vaccination"
In my case, if I get any reaction from my second Pfizer jab it'll be more than I got from my first.
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