Vaccine passports

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shpalman
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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by shpalman » Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:09 pm

Similar super-spreading morons in Turin
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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by shpalman » Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:44 pm

There's a suggestion here that even the vaccinated will need negative tests to go to events, cinema, or theatre.

There'll be a meeting on the 23rd about it.
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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by Herainestold » Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:03 am

shpalman wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:44 pm
There's a suggestion here that even the vaccinated will need negative tests to go to events, cinema, or theatre.

There'll be a meeting on the 23rd about it.
Makes sense. At some point vaccine passports were logical.
With Omicron, not so much.

Rather than trying to finesse ever so complicated regulations, at a some point just shut everything down.

That point was last week.
Dark days lie ahead.

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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by shpalman » Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:04 am

Herainestold wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:03 am
shpalman wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:44 pm
There's a suggestion here that even the vaccinated will need negative tests to go to events, cinema, or theatre.

There'll be a meeting on the 23rd about it.
Makes sense. At some point vaccine passports were logical.
With Omicron, not so much.

Rather than trying to finesse ever so complicated regulations, at a some point just shut everything down.

That point was last week.
It would probably be better to suspend big events until next year; many cities are cancelling their new year's celebrations already.

For events, cinema, or theatre, it used to be "vaccinated, recovered, or negative test."

More recently it's become "vaccinated or recovered" for some sorts of things like this.

It will be a step backwards if it becomes "negative test" and not "(vaccinated or recovered) AND negative test".*

Bear in mind that a self test** which you take at home and input the result to the government website won't be enough for this; rapid tests for Green Passes need to be carried out at the pharmacy or similar. There are usually queues outside, because all the unvaccinated need to regularly do them to be able to go to work or whatever.

* - Because for example I, as a vaccinated person who can't necessarily be bothered to queue up outside the pharmacy on a Friday on the off chance I might want to go out at the weekend, probably won't go out; but the unvaccinated who are in the habit of getting their negative test certificates regularly because they need them anyway, will be able to go out. This suggests to me that it will reduce overall the numbers of people who go to events while tipping the ratio far more towards the unvaccinated.

** - the outbreak at our lab has led to most of us doing rapid covid tests at home just to trace the outbreak; I did one on Thursday evening and I'll do another one tomorrow morning. I'd have done one last night if I'd have been going anywhere. But these tests don't "mean anything", positives should still get a PCR to confirm and be added to the statistics and negatives don't get any kind of proof of it.
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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by shpalman » Tue Dec 21, 2021 5:39 pm

It's currently 9 months here (Italy), but they're talking about limiting it to 6, or at most 7.
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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by WFJ » Tue Dec 21, 2021 5:46 pm

This limit is for allowing entry to one EU country from another.

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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by shpalman » Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:31 pm

Fair enough. I didn't realize it was still 12 months (I remember it was originally 9 months, and then 12).

France is going 2G*.

* - the German term only makes sense in German.

Italy may implement the need for a negative test for New Years parties but there are already lots of (vaccinated) people getting themselves tested at the pharmacy just to be sure (before travelling or meeting relatives or whatever) that there probably isn't much capacity left.
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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:29 pm

It's going well in Southampton https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-59740748

So few would-be clubbers had passes that the club owner's mum had to hang around outside all night helping pissheads swab their nostrils.

If I were a minister's mate I'd be making an absolute killing right now with my lateral flow-MDMA combi packs.
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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by Opti » Wed Dec 22, 2021 6:31 pm

Masking now required here in all outdoor situations. I don't know if the Freedom Warriors are frothing at the mouth, I can't see now.

No further restrictions for now, but the case numbers are rising alarmingly.
Time for a big fat one.

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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by KAJ » Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:16 pm

Opti wrote:
Wed Dec 22, 2021 6:31 pm
Masking now required here in all outdoor situations. I don't know if the Freedom Warriors are frothing at the mouth, I can't see now.

No further restrictions for now, but the case numbers are rising alarmingly.
Where is "here"?

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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:20 pm

KAJ wrote:
Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:16 pm
Opti wrote:
Wed Dec 22, 2021 6:31 pm
Masking now required here in all outdoor situations. I don't know if the Freedom Warriors are frothing at the mouth, I can't see now.

No further restrictions for now, but the case numbers are rising alarmingly.
Where is "here"?
Costa de Narcos, Spain ;)
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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by Opti » Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:39 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:20 pm


Costa de Narcos, Spain ;)
Spot on BoaF. I gotta say life is very sweet here just now. All the refusers are 'boycotting' bars and restaurants they can't get into anyway. So that's better. Of course, they could just get tested and gain entry with a negative, but 'principle' innit. :lol:
Time for a big fat one.

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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:13 pm

It does seem to be a useful shortcut for identifying c.nts.

I reckon we should make covid passports permanent, at least in Iberia.
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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by Herainestold » Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:41 am

shpalman wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:04 am
Herainestold wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:03 am
shpalman wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:44 pm
There's a suggestion here that even the vaccinated will need negative tests to go to events, cinema, or theatre.

There'll be a meeting on the 23rd about it.
Makes sense. At some point vaccine passports were logical.
With Omicron, not so much.

Rather than trying to finesse ever so complicated regulations, at a some point just shut everything down.

That point was last week.
It would probably be better to suspend big events until next year; many cities are cancelling their new year's celebrations already.

For events, cinema, or theatre, it used to be "vaccinated, recovered, or negative test."

More recently it's become "vaccinated or recovered" for some sorts of things like this.

It will be a step backwards if it becomes "negative test" and not "(vaccinated or recovered) AND negative test".*

Bear in mind that a self test** which you take at home and input the result to the government website won't be enough for this; rapid tests for Green Passes need to be carried out at the pharmacy or similar. There are usually queues outside, because all the unvaccinated need to regularly do them to be able to go to work or whatever.

* - Because for example I, as a vaccinated person who can't necessarily be bothered to queue up outside the pharmacy on a Friday on the off chance I might want to go out at the weekend, probably won't go out; but the unvaccinated who are in the habit of getting their negative test certificates regularly because they need them anyway, will be able to go out. This suggests to me that it will reduce overall the numbers of people who go to events while tipping the ratio far more towards the unvaccinated.

** - the outbreak at our lab has led to most of us doing rapid covid tests at home just to trace the outbreak; I did one on Thursday evening and I'll do another one tomorrow morning. I'd have done one last night if I'd have been going anywhere. But these tests don't "mean anything", positives should still get a PCR to confirm and be added to the statistics and negatives don't get any kind of proof of it.
Negative rapid COVID-19 test ‘doesn’t change anything’

This is what we are being told. A positive result means you have covid and you should govern your self accordingly.

At this point, with this virulent variant, we should just be shutting things down. Triple vaccinated and a negative test, you could still be infectious.
So just shut things down. Now.
Dark days lie ahead.

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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by shpalman » Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:31 pm

Now I'm hearing the possibility that in Italy the rule will be that negative tests are required for events unless you have a third dose ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Dec 23, 2021 4:08 pm

Portugal's now requiring tests - rather than just vaccines - along with generally bringing forward their long-planned circuit breaker from ±New Years to ±Boxing Day:
A negative test is now mandatory for access to hotels and local accommodation establishments from 25 December, as well as for business events and family parties, such as weddings or baptisms.

Access to sporting and cultural events will also depend on the presentation of a negative test for coronavirus, regardless of the number of spectators.
They're also now allowing self-tests, and increasing the number of free ones you can get from the health service (from 4 to 6 per month - which effectively limits how many events someone can go to).

https://www.theportugalnews.com/news/20 ... ents/64306
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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by Herainestold » Thu Dec 23, 2021 4:28 pm

shpalman wrote:
Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:31 pm
Now I'm hearing the possibility that in Italy the rule will be that negative tests are required for events unless you have a third dose ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
Which is easier to get, a covid test or a third dose?
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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by shpalman » Thu Dec 23, 2021 5:01 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Thu Dec 23, 2021 4:28 pm
shpalman wrote:
Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:31 pm
Now I'm hearing the possibility that in Italy the rule will be that negative tests are required for events unless you have a third dose ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
Which is easier to get, a covid test or a third dose?
Right now, I don't know. I expect appointments for both are pretty heavily booked. When booking opened for third jabs in my age group I got straight in to book an appointment for 4 days later. But I think a Green Pass from a rapid test only lasts 48 hours which having to get an appointment for right before you need it.

This morning the clinic up the road basically had to suspend walk-in paid-for tests because of the sheer numbers; i.e. you needed an appointment and a medical reason to need the test (to have been referred there by your doctor, not just for travel or whatever).

Of course I have some tests to do at home for my own peace of mind (got some off amazon because they aren't in the supermarket anymore) but they aren't worth any kind of certificate.
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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by shpalman » Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:07 am

What to do about the UK’s unvaccinated?
“I don’t believe we can keep going indefinitely with non-pharmaceutical interventions, restrictions on people’s way of life, just because a substantial proportion of the population still, sadly, has not got vaccinated,” the prime minister said.

Given the libertarian instincts of today’s Tory party, No 10 has followed the path of allowing people to choose freely whether or not to get vaccinated, unless they want to work in the NHS and the care sector.

A mandatory vaccination policy would almost certainly result in a challenge to Johnson’s authority from his backbenches. Those same MPs, however, are also opposed to national restrictions that hit all of society to prevent the NHS from being overwhelmed.
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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by shpalman » Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:27 pm

I notice the Italian Green Pass verification app now lets me choose whether I want to verify a "base" Green Pass (vaccination/recovery/test), a "reinforced" one (vaccination/recovery), or a "booster" one (boosted, unboosted vaccinations plus test, recovery plus test).

I'm not actually sure in what situations the "booster" one would be necessary, because I thought that even if social events had been allowed, that it would have always been vaccinations plus test or recovery plus test.
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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by shpalman » Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:34 am

(it also asks to download a list of the Green Passes which have been revoked due to their owners testing positive)
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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by shpalman » Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:20 pm

Italy (or rather, the people in charge of it) are now discussing whether to require a "Super Green Pass" (vaccination or recovery from infection) for basically anyone who goes to work. The ordinary Green Pass (which can also be obtained with a recent negative rapid test) is becoming less and less useful.

Well, they can all f.ck off and get vaccinated instead of clogging up the pharmacies and drive-in testing centres. And eventually, the hospitals.

(Lombardy will also move into Yellow next week but it will change hardly anything at this stage, compared to the national restrictions which have recently been introduced.)

It's now possible to get a booster four months after the second dose, but I think the Super Green Pass following the second dose is still valid for 9 months, but that at the end of January it will shorten to 6 months. I did at least persuade Dance Partner to at least book her booster now for the end of January, since her second dose was almost 6 months ago.

(She looked at the appointments available and there were lots in this immediate period so she immediately closed the page assuming there'd be appointments available whenever she needed one, but I persuaded her to spend more the 5 seconds looking, to note that yes there were lots of appointments available now but not that many towards the end of the month and anyway if you know you need to do it why leave it to the last minute.)
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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by lpm » Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:25 pm

There's no longer any justification for vaccine passports. People with a vaccine are getting infected from other people with a vaccine. Excluding an unvaccinated person from a restaurant is just punishment now, it does nothing to improve the safety of others.
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Re: Vaccine passports

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:05 pm

Well, if enough of them end up in hospital that sensible people can't get treatment and medical staff get PTSD they're harming others, and that could well be a consequence of the current tsunami of cases in a week or two.

The punishment is a large part of the point, to coerce the less rabidly bonkers unvaxxed into getting jabbed so they don't end up occupying hospital beds. Keeping idiots out of nice places is just a bonus.

I suppose really the only type of venue that needs to use vaccine passports is the NHS? No face to face appointments or inpatient care for the unjabbed. Another couple of winters of them dying at home/in the street and the country will achieve herd immunity.
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