Scrutable

Posted: **Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:20 pm**

shpalman wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:29 pm
Scotland: Vaccine passport benefits 'outweigh concerns'

Posted: **Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:32 pm**

shpalman wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 02, 2021 10:51 am
STOP EVERYONE apparently we're ignor[ing] the arguments raging around them!

If the expert advice tells you that castigating and punishing people who won’t take the vaccine doesn’t solve the problem, what kind of expert-lover are you to ignore it?
Well, ok then, what's the expert advice regarding solving the problem, which I personally can do?

The [Boardmaster] festival organisers already had a Covid-status check in place, with every ticketholder aged over 11 required to show either a recent negative test result or a vaccination status. It must have been a disappointment to everyone concerned, that those two failsafes – the open air, and the vaccine – did, in 4,700 cases, fail. Yet it is unlikely that a legal or regulatory requirement to do the very thing the organisers already did would have made a difference.
So what actual "problem" are we even trying to solve? Or rather, if vaccination isn't stopping young people from getting infected why be so bothered about the low uptake?

I mean, I think I know the answer to this, but it's not clear if the article does.

The problem here was that although the festival itself was outdoors, it was held in a town with many indoors pubs and nightclubs that were open and where everyone at the festival headed of an evening. That’s where the transmission took place. It was outside of the festival organisers’ control.

Posted: **Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:51 pm**

Well that's goes to show that Green Passes (or UK equivalent) would be useless for indoor venues, since all the visitors to the festival had them (whether or not they were asked for them on entry to the pubs and nightclubs, they needed them to be at the festival). So you're only left with shutting down any indoor hospitality which doesn't involve staying seated at tables, or f.ck it YOLO. Or that they all caught it not from each other but from the locals. Green Passes would have helped in that case.

Posted: **Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:06 pm**

Green passes might have helped if they'd been Green passes.

I think the issue with the Boardmasters debacle was that most of the people there weren't fully vaccinated and it turned out to be really easy to get an NHS e-mail confirming a negative LFT without actually taking one or taking one and getting a positive result. It wasn't the sort of expensive supervised one you need for international travel. It was a bog standard free one where all you need is the ID of the test and then you input the result and they send you an e-mail telling you what the result is.

Posted: **Thu Sep 02, 2021 7:19 pm**

OffTheRock wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:06 pm
Green passes might have helped if they'd been Green passes.

I think the issue with the Boardmasters debacle was that most of the people there weren't fully vaccinated and it turned out to be really easy to get an NHS e-mail confirming a negative LFT without actually taking one or taking one and getting a positive result. It wasn't the sort of expensive supervised one you need for international travel. It was a bog standard free one where all you need is the ID of the test and then you input the result and they send you an e-mail telling you what the result is.

Apparently they've been finding positive LFT in and around Reading festival so people there were presumably doing unsupervised tests and bullshitting about the result to get their covid pass.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/reading-festi ... 16250.html

Posted: **Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:16 pm**

I've taken four flights in the last two months (booooo!)

The first three, staff insisted on looking at my QR code, though none of them scanned it, and the last one didn't even bother. They also look to see I have a QR code for a passenger locator form, let alone scanning it or checking the info.

What's the penalty if you get caught by a bouncer with a bogus QR?

Anyway yeah I can't see why a particular kind of person would worry too much about getting a laissez-faire green pass.

Posted: **Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:56 pm**

jdc wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 02, 2021 7:19 pm

OffTheRock wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:06 pm
Green passes might have helped if they'd been Green passes.

I think the issue with the Boardmasters debacle was that most of the people there weren't fully vaccinated and it turned out to be really easy to get an NHS e-mail confirming a negative LFT without actually taking one or taking one and getting a positive result. It wasn't the sort of expensive supervised one you need for international travel. It was a bog standard free one where all you need is the ID of the test and then you input the result and they send you an e-mail telling you what the result is.
Apparently they've been finding positive LFT in and around Reading festival so people there were presumably doing unsupervised tests and bullshitting about the result to get their covid pass.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/reading-festi ... 16250.html

In the interests of experimentation, I logged a negative test using the lot number of a spare LFT device that I haven't used. I'm now the proud owner of an NHS e-mail which will presumably get me entry to any where requiring proof of a negative test (OK, so I'm double vaxxed, but that's beside the point). My guess is the government don't care too much because they have no intention of trying to slow down transmission or keep the infection rate a bit lower, especially in 16-24 year olds. It's all about providing the illusion.

Posted: **Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:03 am**

I assume pundits are already using a phrase like "pandemic theatre"?

It's the "take your shoes off while we wave through several large batteries and a cigarette lighter" kind of deterrent.

Posted: **Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:57 am**

shpalman wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 02, 2021 10:51 am
STOP EVERYONE apparently we're ignor[ing] the arguments raging around them!

From that article:

The normal way of executing public policy is dispassionate analysis leading to defendable decisions

so it seems to have little connection to reality.

Posted: **Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:36 pm**

Meanwhile in Slovakia there aren't enough people vaccinated so restrictions on events are going to be... loosened?

Slovakia has reversed its policy of allowing only people vaccinated against Covid-19 to attend public events during a visit by Pope Francis this month following low registration numbers.

“A negative test or proof of overcoming Covid-19 in the last 180 days will be sufficient to get a ticket,” the Slovak Catholic Church’s bishops’ conference (SBC) said.

The ban on unvaccinated people had been controversial in the EU member state, where only 49.5% of adults are fully vaccinated – compared over 70% in the EU as a whole.

Until now, only Slovaks with full vaccination against Covid-19 had been able to register for the 12-15 September papal visit, and the number of those registered has been much lower than expected.

“A lot of people have been asking to lift the vaccination requirement. So, as it is possible, we accommodated this request,” SBC spokesman Martin Kramara told AFP.

Oh well, they do have a very low death rate at the moment.

Posted: **Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:44 pm**

shpalman wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:36 pm

Slovakia has reversed its policy of allowing only people vaccinated against Covid-19 to attend public events during a visit by Pope Francis this month following low registration numbers.

“A negative test or proof of overcoming Covid-19 in the last 180 days will be sufficient to get a ticket,” the Slovak Catholic Church’s bishops’ conference (SBC) said.
Oh well, they do have a very low death rate at the moment.

To be fair, those are the three versions of the EU Covid certificate. And some healthcare systems don't give vaccines (or at least not a second dose) to people who had Covid in the past 180 days.

I think that part of "living with Covid" will involve accepting that vaccines don't/can't/won't fix 100% of the problem, and if the authorities decide to be a dick about that, they will lose goodwill.

Posted: **Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:07 pm**

It seems strange to me that places were even insisting on vaccines for their local version of the Green Pass anyway given all the fuss about it not supposed to have been a Vaccine Passport since that's discriminatory.* I think Austria was also insisting on a a full course of vaccinations, i.e. a Green Pass issued 15 days after the first dose of a two-dose vaccine wouldn't have been considered acceptable. While this information is included in the Green Pass, it probably counts as the sort of "medical records" that shouldn't be asked for when the Pass is checked for validity i.e. it's none of your business how I got it, just that it's still valid.

I think Slovakia maybe just wanted more people to show up for the Pope? It's less than 15 days until his visit so too late for anyone to get vaccinated to be able to go.

(* - yes the case of not being vaccinated because of a recent infection, or a policy of only needing one dose following an infection, are valid reasons not to have a two-dose Green Pass, and they need to be accounted for in the certification.)

Posted: **Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:50 pm**

shpalman wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:07 pm
It seems strange to me that places were even insisting on vaccines for their local version of the Green Pass anyway given all the fuss about it not supposed to have been a Vaccine Passport since that's discriminatory.* I think Austria was also insisting on a a full course of vaccinations, i.e. a Green Pass issued 15 days after the first dose of a two-dose vaccine wouldn't have been considered acceptable. While this information is included in the Green Pass, it probably counts as the sort of "medical records" that shouldn't be asked for when the Pass is checked for validity i.e. it's none of your business how I got it, just that it's still valid.

I think Slovakia maybe just wanted more people to show up for the Pope? It's less than 15 days until his visit so too late for anyone to get vaccinated to be able to go.

(* - yes the case of not being vaccinated because of a recent infection, or a policy of only needing one dose following an infection, are valid reasons not to have a two-dose Green Pass, and they need to be accounted for in the certification.)

The 15-day thing turns out not to be standardised across the EU. For France the vaccine certificate becomes valid (for entering the country, anyway) 7 days after your second shot of a 2-shot vaccine or 28 days after your only shot of Janssen. For Ireland it's 7 days for your 2nd dose of Pfizer, 14 days for Moderna, 15 (!) for AZ, and 14 days after the only shot for Janssen. For Sweden it's 14 days after the first dose.

Basically, the EU certificate doesn't say "Yes, you can travel". It just contains all the information that each sovwin member state needs to take sovwin public health decisions in an easy-for-a-machine-to-read format, so the machine at the airport can go "beep" or "boop" - but which of those noises it makes will depend on the rules for each country. Sovwintee, innit.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:41 pm**

I have two tickets to see Primus tonight, excellent seats. Here's the policy:

"Masks are required and must remain in place unless eating or drinking. All attendees of this event must have received a negative COVID-19 test result within 72 hours of attending. Guests not wishing to provide a negative test result can voluntarily show proof of full vaccination instead. In attending the event, you certify and attest that you and all individuals in your party attending the event: ? All fans must provide printed proof of a negative COVID-19 test (PCR or antigen) obtained within 72 hours prior to entering the venue. ? In lieu of a negative test result, guests fully vaccinated against COVID-19 (at least two weeks after final dose) at the time of the event may instead provide proof of vaccination - either the original vaccination card or a printed copy of the vaccination card. These regulations will apply to all members of your party (including children) before they are allowed entry to the event"

I got my 2 shots over 6 months ago, and have the card to prove it. And I will happily wear a mask. But I expect there will be trouble at the show tonight. Big trouble.

I hope they stick to their guns on this one. Mmmm, bad analogy, as "stick to their guns" has extra special meaning here in tx, now that absolutely everybody can carry loaded guns inc hand guns and assault rifles everywhere.

Posted: **Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:39 pm**

Primus?! I'm super jealous. Enjoy, and I hope there isn't too much trouble.

They should have cashed in on the merch train by selling Mr Krinkle-style N95 pig masks. And made them compulsory.

Posted: **Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:11 am**

Wait what PRIMUS?

Our friends held a 20-25 people strong party last weekend, a special event that had been delayed 18 months. 2 negative lateral flow tests required for entry (I seem to have picked up a cold but have had three negative LFTs since...famous last words

). People took turns DJing. I didn't because I was too shy (although I'm planning my setlist for the next one

). It was 98% techno but Señor von Laté slipped in a bit of Primus and it brought the house down.

Anyway as you were.

Posted: **Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:23 am**

'to be scrapped'

Posted: **Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:16 am**

... and there they go

Posted: **Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:29 am**

Wait 5 minutes and it'll be back again.

Posted: **Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:49 am**

No that's vaccinating 12-15 year olds you're thinking of.

Posted: **Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:52 pm**

Britain really is exceptional. Here in the EU the green pass system seems to be working fine, with not much pushback.

As the expats say here "It's a folk memory of Franco, innit".

Posted: **Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:54 pm**

Opti wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:52 pm
Britain really is exceptional. Here in the EU the green pass system seems to be working fine, with not much pushback.

As the expats say here "It's a folk memory of Franco, innit".*

edit: Here, you just don't talk about the Civil War if you're a guiri. It's the rule.

Posted: **Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:10 pm**

Opti wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:52 pm
Britain really is led by exceptionally poor politicians.

FIFY.

Posted: **Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:21 pm**

headshot wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:10 pm

Opti wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:52 pm
Britain really democratically elected some exceptionally poor politicians.
FIFY.

How about that one?

Posted: **Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:58 pm**

shpalman wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:21 pm

headshot wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:10 pm

Opti wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:52 pm
Britain really democratically elected some exceptionally poor politicians.
FIFY.
How about that one?

Yeah. That’ll do.

Scrutable

Vaccine passports

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