Booster vaccination

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Martin Y
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by Martin Y » Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:48 am

Brightonian wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:12 am
Got my Moderna booster yesterday. No ill effects other than it flipping hurt unlike my first two which I hardly felt. Odd, disturbing dreams though (maybe a consequence of having to sit in a crowded waiting room for 25 minutes, and latterly reading about B.1.1.259 which perhaps makes it all pointless).
Likewise Moderna yesterday. Feels like I've been punched on the arm. Big sister had several hours of terrible chills and shivering but fingers crossed nothing like that.

Curiously, the process wasn't so slick and speedy as the first two, though I couldn't see what was different. Took a good 45 mins to get through and, as I left, the queue to get in was another 50m out the hospital door.

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by headshot » Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:18 am

FlammableFlower wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:37 am
Then I get the: our records show you are eligible for a COVID booster. No, no I'm not, at least not until the start of next year.

I know they're mass messaging a lot of people, but they could have couched them in better terms.
You're probably eligible to book the booster - or will be soon - as you can book 152 days after your second dose for an appointment after 182 days.

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by FlammableFlower » Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:53 am

Ooo - cheers headshot

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by raven » Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:15 pm

Got our booster at the big vaccination centre tonight. Apart from it taking 2 hours -- mostly 'cos of driving the 15 miles there and back in very snowy darkness -- it was very efficient & ran like clockwork. Ok, so less convenient than the GPs, and slightly higher risk given the requisite sit here in a big room with everybody for 15 minutes (when the GPs do it in a marquee so you're in&out, and go wait in your car), but otherwise pretty good experience.

Heard a nurse saying it was the busiest they've been this year though. And there were definitely some teenagers/youngsters & some walk-ins, so here's hoping all the publicity about omicron is giving people the extra motivation to get jabbed/second dosed/boosters.

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by shpalman » Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:13 pm

having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by raven » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:10 pm

Does that make sense? That means folk in their 20s who got jabs 1&2 done by September could get boosted now, when their immunity is probably still good and ahead of people in their 40s & 50s whose immunity will be waning & who're probably more at risk.

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by lpm » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:38 pm

It makes no sense.

Crunch together boosters now and you create population wide waning in 6 months. The best cycle would be 1/365th of the population getting a jab each day, with each day having a representative mix of the population.
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by headshot » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:41 pm

raven wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:10 pm
Does that make sense? That means folk in their 20s who got jabs 1&2 done by September could get boosted now, when their immunity is probably still good and ahead of people in their 40s & 50s whose immunity will be waning & who're probably more at risk.
Sounds like their plan is to run through the age groups in reverse order. It unlikely people in their 20s will leapfrog those in their 40s.

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by bob sterman » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:44 pm

lpm wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:38 pm
It makes no sense.

Crunch together boosters now and you create population wide waning in 6 months. The best cycle would be 1/365th of the population getting a jab each day, with each day having a representative mix of the population.
Build back "boosters on your birthday"!

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by jimbob » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:44 am

lpm wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:38 pm
It makes no sense.

Crunch together boosters now and you create population wide waning in 6 months. The best cycle would be 1/365th of the population getting a jab each day, with each day having a representative mix of the population.
Is that true? or is the booster likely to last longer than the 2nd dose?
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by nezumi » Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:44 am

jimbob wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:44 am
lpm wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:38 pm
It makes no sense.

Crunch together boosters now and you create population wide waning in 6 months. The best cycle would be 1/365th of the population getting a jab each day, with each day having a representative mix of the population.
Is that true? or is the booster likely to last longer than the 2nd dose?
My uneducated take on it is that it's not likely an extra booster would give longer lasting immunity than previous jabs. The original jabs have done the long-term immunity job already, I think it's most likely the booster is only reinforcing the long term immunity but restarting the shorter term systems. Going at it with two different vaccines might improve things somewhat as you're tackling the problem from a different angle but the decay time of the immune response is probably going to last the same amount of time because, after all, it's the same cells you're activating.

I'd say the best bet is to continue boosting every 6 months* with different vaccines where possible and try very, very hard not to let the groups merge together over time. I can't imagine the scientists aren't tracking immunity over time so we'll probably have the actual answer fairly soon. It's not like there's a shortage of data :lol:

* 3 months might be optimal but it's not really feasible is it? Besides, there's still a lot of world that hasn't had jab #1 yet!
Non fui. Fui. Non sum. Non curo.

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by jdc » Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:13 pm

nezumi wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:44 am
The original jabs have done the long-term immunity job already
+1. Cellular immunity is for life, not just for Christmas.

A booster will increase antibody levels which will temporarily solve the waning problem. If it increases the level of antibodies to a greater extent than jab2 then I suppose antibodies will be waning from a higher point so you might have detectable levels for longer than previously.

I did see a quote somewhere from an immunologist who reckoned a second booster (i.e. the third jab for the immunocompetent) might lead to an increase in the pool of cells which can recognise variants:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02795-x wrote:A third vaccine dose might allow people who haven't been infected to achieve the benefits of hybrid immunity, says Matthieu Mahévas, an immunologist at the Necker Institute for Sick Children in Paris. His team found that some of the memory B cells from naive vaccine recipients could recognize Beta and Delta, two months after vaccination9. “When you boost this pool, you can clearly imagine you will generate potent neutralizing antibodies against variants,” Mahévas says.
Also:
Ellebedy’s team collected lymph-node samples from mRNA-vaccinated individuals and found signs that some of their memory B cells triggered by the vaccination were gaining mutations, up to 12 weeks after the second dose, that enabled them to recognize diverse coronaviruses [...] Goel, University of Pennsylvania immunologist John Wherry and their colleagues found signs that six months after vaccination, memory B cells from naive individuals were continuing to grow in number and evolve greater capacity to neutralize variants8. Antibody levels fell after vaccination, but these cells should start cranking out antibodies if they encounter SARS-CoV-2 again. “The reality is you have a pool of high-quality memory B cells that are there to protect you if you ever see this antigen again,” Goel says.
And, btw:
Extending the interval between vaccine doses could also mimic aspects of hybrid immunity. In 2021, amid scarce vaccine supplies and a surge in cases, officials in the Canadian province of Quebec recommended a 16-week interval between first and second doses (since reduced to 8 weeks).

A team co-led by Andrés Finzi, a virologist at the University of Montreal, Canada, found that people who received this regimen had SARS-CoV-2 antibody levels similar to those in people with hybrid immunity10. These antibodies could neutralize a swathe of SARS-CoV-2 variants — as well as the virus behind the 2002–04 SARS epidemic. “We are able to bring naive people to almost the same level as previously infected and vaccinated, which is our gold standard,” says Finzi.
And while I'm here I might as well add:
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm0829 wrote:
We found mRNA vaccines generated functional memory B cells that increased from 3-6 months post-vaccination, with the majority of these cells cross-binding the Alpha, Beta, and Delta variants. mRNA vaccination further induced antigen-specific CD4+ and CD8+ T cells, and early CD4+ T cell responses correlated with long-term humoral immunity
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34636722/ wrote:
Focusing on the T cell response, we conducted a longitudinal study of infection-naïve and COVID-19 convalescent donors before vaccination and after their first and second vaccine doses, using a high-parameter CyTOF analysis to phenotype their SARS-CoV-2-specific T cells. Vaccine-elicited spike-specific T cells responded similarly to stimulation by spike epitopes from the ancestral, B.1.1.7 and B.1.351 variant strains, both in terms of cell numbers and phenotypes. In infection-naïve individuals, the second dose boosted the quantity and altered the phenotypic properties of SARS-CoV-2-specific T cells, while in convalescents the second dose changed neither.

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:54 am

Hey guys.

I got two Modernas in Portugal, but I'll be in UK for most of December-February and will definitely be invited by text to come for a booster.

I'm up for it, but does anyone know
1) what jab I'm likely to get
2) how easy it'd be to integrate with an EU pass
?

I'm not averse to taking extra jabs other than I'd rather they went to unvaccinated Africans etc., for reasons that have always been obvious to the WHO but somehow still aren't to the people running rich countries in the West. But that argument seems a bit like "finish your plate because there's a famine in Ethiopia" - my unused jab will go in the bin, not to Biafra.
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by jdc » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:23 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:54 am
Hey guys.

I got two Modernas in Portugal, but I'll be in UK for most of December-February and will definitely be invited by text to come for a booster.

I'm up for it, but does anyone know
1) what jab I'm likely to get
2) how easy it'd be to integrate with an EU pass
?

I'm not averse to taking extra jabs other than I'd rather they went to unvaccinated Africans etc., for reasons that have always been obvious to the WHO but somehow still aren't to the people running rich countries in the West. But that argument seems a bit like "finish your plate because there's a famine in Ethiopia" - my unused jab will go in the bin, not to Biafra.
1) we're doing Pfizer & Moderna. Think AZ just available for those who can't have one of the mRNA jabs. I imagine most ppl more likely to get Pfizer as iirc we ordered shitloads more from them than Moderna but we're into guesswork now and I need m' tea and toast so won't be doing any googling at least for now.

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:42 am

Good start. Enjoy y' tea and toast.

Happy days!

BoaF
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by jdc » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:20 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:42 am
Good start. Enjoy y' tea and toast.

Happy days!

BoaF
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*It's one click since I added it to the taskbar but that's one too man25 for me.

I don't think there's much point googling for current stocks of UK vaccine as the govt were keeping that top secret. Total orders (from April!) are here though: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-s ... 9-vaccines so we can see how far behind Moderna were in the league table back then. I reckon we must still be using more Pfizer than Moderna. Mebbe run a poll to see who here got what for their booster?
Overall, the UK has secured access to 517 million doses of 8 of the most promising COVID-19 vaccines. These are:

Pfizer/BioNTech for 100 million doses – including the additional 60 million doses
Oxford/AstraZeneca for 100 million doses
Moderna for 17 million doses
Janssen for 30 million doses
Novavax for 60 million doses
Valneva for 100 million doses
GlaxoSmithKline and Sanofi Pasteur for 60 million doses
CureVac for 50 million doses

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by nezumi » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:33 am

Somebody send jdc a keyboard, stat! :lol:
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by shpalman » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:02 am

th' summary of vaccine yellow card reports page report reports
As of 17 November 2021, an estimated 24.3 million first doses of the COVID-19 Pfizer/BioNTech Vaccine and 24.9 million first doses of the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca had been administered, and around 20.7 million and 24.1 million second doses of COVID-19 Pfizer/BioNTech Vaccine and COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca respectively. An approximate 1.5 million first doses and approximately 1.3 million second doses of the COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna have also now been administered.
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by jdc » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:02 pm

shpalman wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:02 am
th' summary of vaccine yellow card reports page report reports
As of 17 November 2021, an estimated 24.3 million first doses of the COVID-19 Pfizer/BioNTech Vaccine and 24.9 million first doses of the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca had been administered, and around 20.7 million and 24.1 million second doses of COVID-19 Pfizer/BioNTech Vaccine and COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca respectively. An approximate 1.5 million first doses and approximately 1.3 million second doses of the COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna have also now been administered.
Nice work shpalman. Looks like we should still have a lot more Pfizer stocks than Moderna then. Unless they did an AZ and forgot to deliver 40 or 50 million doses.

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by FlammableFlower » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:34 pm

Except, as I discovered - they're still going on a 6-month timetable for booking.

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by jdc » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:46 pm

FlammableFlower wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:34 pm
Except, as I discovered - they're still going on a 6-month timetable for booking.
Have they basically just made it 'legal' to offer it with a 3-month gap but not actually made it achievable then?

I know vaccinators who've been called back to volunteer for arm jabbing again this week, so perhaps we're going to accelerate and we'll be offered our boosters after just 5.5 months rather than the full 6. Result.

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by jimbob » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:53 pm

jdc wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:46 pm
FlammableFlower wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:34 pm
Except, as I discovered - they're still going on a 6-month timetable for booking.
Have they basically just made it 'legal' to offer it with a 3-month gap but not actually made it achievable then?

I know vaccinators who've been called back to volunteer for arm jabbing again this week, so perhaps we're going to accelerate and we'll be offered our boosters after just 5.5 months rather than the full 6. Result.
Yup.
The NHS is working on plans to offer:

a booster dose to everyone aged 18 years old and over
a booster dose to people aged 16 years old and over with a severely weakened immune system
booster doses from 3 months after the previous dose - currently it's from 6 months after the previous dose
a 2nd dose to all children aged 12 to 15 years old who are not already eligible
Please note that this is not yet available.
Today is the first day that I could book my booster (152 days after my 2nd dose) So booked for the 4th Jan so far.
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by Fishnut » Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:01 pm

Just had my booster. Pfizer have rebranded their vaccination as Comirnaty which I honestly though was a mistyping of Community until I realised what was going on. I wonder how much it cost to come up with.
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bob sterman
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by bob sterman » Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:11 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:01 pm
Just had my booster. Pfizer have rebranded their vaccination as Comirnaty which I honestly though was a mistyping of Community until I realised what was going on. I wonder how much it cost to come up with.
The brand name has always been called Comirnaty as far as I know.

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by Martin_B » Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:17 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:01 pm
Just had my booster. Pfizer have rebranded their vaccination as Comirnaty which I honestly though was a mistyping of Community until I realised what was going on. I wonder how much it cost to come up with.
Both my vaccinations were "Pfizer", but the certificate said Comirnaty and that was even back in May.

I guess that Pfizer/Moderna/AstraZeneca had to actually give their drugs names and Pfizer/BioNTech gave their drug the name Comirnaty.

Saying Pfizer is like saying that you drive a Ford, but what you actually drive is a Ford Focus, as opposed to a Ford Ranger or some other model.
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