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Booster vaccination

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:14 pm
by Woodchopper
A good thread on 4 scenarios that result from giving a booster vaccine:
https://twitter.com/davidwdowdy/status/ ... 21568?s=20

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:42 pm
by lpm
Hmm.

The scenarios might be different for >80s. Or for Pfizer on top of 2 AZs.

I think his conclusion for C is wrong - it's the same as A. If it gives the elderly better protection for the coming 6 months, even if only a small increment on top of the already very good effectiveness against death, then booster now is important. Probably in the next few years there's never going to be a worse time than the coming six months. Going from, say, 90% protection for over 80s to 92% protection is pretty good death saving.

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:30 pm
by PeteB
Yes, before you think about it 90->92 % sounds trivial but 10%->8% is quite a big change

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:33 pm
by Brightonian
Do we know yet how long it takes for a booster to become effective? Just had a Zoom session with my father (mid-80s) who's had his booster today and he was wondering about this. I can't find the answer myself so maybe there's just not enough data out there. And I suppose it depends which vaccine it is too (I assume in my father's case it's Pfizer as he initially had Pfizer).

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:17 am
by Millennie Al
I haven't seen any data, so I'd guess boosters need about two weeks to be fully effective just like the second dose of two-dose vaccines.

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:57 pm
by sTeamTraen
Brightonian wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:33 pm
Do we know yet how long it takes for a booster to become effective? Just had a Zoom session with my father (mid-80s) who's had his booster today and he was wondering about this. I can't find the answer myself so maybe there's just not enough data out there. And I suppose it depends which vaccine it is too (I assume in my father's case it's Pfizer as he initially had Pfizer).
Efficacy is not a binary thing, and neither is the change in efficacy over time; it will be some kind of (presumably monotonic) function. Obviously governments have to say things like "In order for your vaccine to count for travel you must have had the final dose more than 2 weeks ago", but in reality your immunity will evolve over time in some kind of probability density function. (And your immunity is in turn is a probability density function with multiple parameters: how likely are you get how ill given exposure to how much of the virus.)

Also with boosters, we don't know what someone's pre- and post- immunity is, unless we run antibody tests to at least get a formal estimate of the prevalence of antibodies. At least with the first vaccine, for someone who hasn't had Covid, we can assume their pre-first-shot antibody count was probably zero.

tl;dr: Everything is about statistics at the population level, and there is still much we don't know. Boosters seem like a good risk/reward for vulnerable groups.

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:29 am
by jdc
Thread here on cellular immunity and immune memory may be of interest https://twitter.com/MonicaGandhi9/statu ... 3402408960

Seems that you (a) generate more antibodies and (b) generate them more quickly the second time you're exposed to the antigen compared with your first exposure.

Note the long-lasting nature of memory B ("no apparent half-life") and memory T cells ("long half-lives") also "80-100 T cells line up across spike protein so 10-13 mutations of variants can't escape T cells", "Memory B cells bind to conserved regions of the spike protein that are common to all variants" and "memory B cells adapt their antibodies they produce to the variant at hand".

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:21 am
by Stupidosaurus
Maybe not that relevant to the aim of this thread but I had a Pfizer booster on Thursday and it's totally flattened me. The first night I shivered uncontrollably, yesterday I had deep fatigue, sweats and couldn't keep food down. Last night and this morning I've been a bit better but still have muscle aches and (slightly less) fatigue. I'm glad I had it, but it's been a truly sh.t couple of days.

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:46 am
by headshot
We’ve just discovered that Frau HS is included in Phase 2 of the booster rollout - even though she was dropped from priority groups in the initial rollout.

It’s because she has asthma and qualifies for a free flu shot. Might be worth checking your eligibility as it’s different to what happened earlier in the year.

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 12:31 pm
by jdc
Stupidosaurus wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:21 am
Maybe not that relevant to the aim of this thread but I had a Pfizer booster on Thursday and it's totally flattened me. The first night I shivered uncontrollably, yesterday I had deep fatigue, sweats and couldn't keep food down. Last night and this morning I've been a bit better but still have muscle aches and (slightly less) fatigue. I'm glad I had it, but it's been a truly sh.t couple of days.
Were your first two Pfizer as well, or AZ?

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:52 pm
by Stupidosaurus
My first two were both AZ. I also had a strong reaction to the first of those (fever, loss of appetite) but that cleared up faster than this is. Second AZ was OK, just one day of feeling a bit off-color.

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:00 pm
by Stupidosaurus
In terms of eligibility, I got into the 'healthcare provider' bracket even though I just work in an office at *well-known pharma company*. I've also got some chronic health issues but I don't think that figured in my prioritisation.

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:12 pm
by JQH
Brightonian wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:33 pm
Do we know yet how long it takes for a booster to become effective? Just had a Zoom session with my father (mid-80s) who's had his booster today and he was wondering about this. I can't find the answer myself so maybe there's just not enough data out there. And I suppose it depends which vaccine it is too (I assume in my father's case it's Pfizer as he initially had Pfizer).
They're giving everybody Pfizer for the booster dose now. That's what I got yesterday after having 2 X AZ previously.

Oh, and apart from a slightly sore arm at the injection site, no side effects at all. (Was ill for a day after AZ1 and felt rough for a couple of hours the day after AZ2.)

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:16 pm
by Stranger Mouse
JQH wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:12 pm
Brightonian wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:33 pm
Do we know yet how long it takes for a booster to become effective? Just had a Zoom session with my father (mid-80s) who's had his booster today and he was wondering about this. I can't find the answer myself so maybe there's just not enough data out there. And I suppose it depends which vaccine it is too (I assume in my father's case it's Pfizer as he initially had Pfizer).
They're giving everybody Pfizer for the booster dose now. That's what I got yesterday after having 2 X AZ previously.

Oh, and apart from a slightly sore arm at the injection site, no side effects at all. (Was ill for a day after AZ1 and felt rough for a couple of hours the day after AZ2.)
Are they? I just googled and they seem to say that there are three different vaccines being given for boosters. My mum (in her mid 90s) got her booster this week but my nephew took her to get it done and she wasn’t given a card so I don’t know which one she got.

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:43 pm
by jdc
Stranger Mouse wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:16 pm
JQH wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:12 pm
Brightonian wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:33 pm
Do we know yet how long it takes for a booster to become effective? Just had a Zoom session with my father (mid-80s) who's had his booster today and he was wondering about this. I can't find the answer myself so maybe there's just not enough data out there. And I suppose it depends which vaccine it is too (I assume in my father's case it's Pfizer as he initially had Pfizer).
They're giving everybody Pfizer for the booster dose now. That's what I got yesterday after having 2 X AZ previously.

Oh, and apart from a slightly sore arm at the injection site, no side effects at all. (Was ill for a day after AZ1 and felt rough for a couple of hours the day after AZ2.)
Are they? I just googled and they seem to say that there are three different vaccines being given for boosters. My mum (in her mid 90s) got her booster this week but my nephew took her to get it done and she wasn’t given a card so I don’t know which one she got.
I don't know what you found when googling but NHS has
Most people will be offered a booster dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine or Moderna vaccine.

This means your booster dose may be different from the vaccines you had for your 1st and 2nd doses.

Some people may be offered a booster dose of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine if they cannot have the Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna vaccine.
So it is three, but AZ seems to be given only if you can't have an mRNA jab.

I thought Moderna was a low dose and this CCG mentions it: https://www.norfolkandwaveneyccg.nhs.uk ... ccinations
It has been recommended that people will have the Pfizer or a half dose of the Moderna vaccine for their COVID-19 booster, even if they had a different vaccine previously.

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:47 pm
by Stranger Mouse
Yup that’s what I found.

I wish my mum had been paying attention and taken fulsome notes so she can keep me fully informed. bl..dy nonagenarian slackers.

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:17 pm
by JQH
Stranger Mouse wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:16 pm
JQH wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:12 pm
Brightonian wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:33 pm
Do we know yet how long it takes for a booster to become effective? Just had a Zoom session with my father (mid-80s) who's had his booster today and he was wondering about this. I can't find the answer myself so maybe there's just not enough data out there. And I suppose it depends which vaccine it is too (I assume in my father's case it's Pfizer as he initially had Pfizer).
They're giving everybody Pfizer for the booster dose now. That's what I got yesterday after having 2 X AZ previously.

Oh, and apart from a slightly sore arm at the injection site, no side effects at all. (Was ill for a day after AZ1 and felt rough for a couple of hours the day after AZ2.)
Are they? I just googled and they seem to say that there are three different vaccines being given for boosters. My mum (in her mid 90s) got her booster this week but my nephew took her to get it done and she wasn’t given a card so I don’t know which one she got.
Well, that's what the bloke jabbing me told me.

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:04 am
by Millennie Al
Stranger Mouse wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:16 pm
My mum (in her mid 90s) got her booster this week but my nephew took her to get it done and she wasn’t given a card so I don’t know which one she got.
If she wants to know, she can ask for an NHS COVID pass, which gives details. See https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavir ... ss-letter/ or https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavir ... ovid-pass/

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:20 am
by Stranger Mouse
Millennie Al wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:04 am
Stranger Mouse wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:16 pm
My mum (in her mid 90s) got her booster this week but my nephew took her to get it done and she wasn’t given a card so I don’t know which one she got.
If she wants to know, she can ask for an NHS COVID pass, which gives details. See https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavir ... ss-letter/ or https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavir ... ovid-pass/
Cheers. She may do that.

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:32 pm
by monkey
Just got my 3rd jab. Had Moderna for first two, Pfizer this time. I'm in the US and eligible because of my job. They said I could've had a Moderna if I went somewhere else, but I didn't. The people at the place didn't seem to know if there'd be a difference or not.

I got my flu shot at the same time. Flu shot arm is a little more achey than the Covid arm. Starting to feel like I did for the 2nd jab, which put in bed for a day.

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:53 pm
by Cardinal Fang
Had my booster yesterday (Pfizer for all 3)

Feeling a bit rubbish today.

Felt like hell after my 2nd jab, and not feeling as bad this time round, but still not wonderful

Anticipating same as with my 2nd jab that I'll feel okay tomorrow

CF

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:31 pm
by monkey
Cardinal Fang wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:53 pm
Had my booster yesterday (Pfizer for all 3)

Feeling a bit rubbish today.

Felt like hell after my 2nd jab, and not feeling as bad this time round, but still not wonderful

Anticipating same as with my 2nd jab that I'll feel okay tomorrow

CF
I ended up feeling better this time, but I don't feel quite right today. A headache is getting in the way of thinking, but it's not bad enough that I can't do stuff. Covid arm is definitely more hurty than flu arm because it got worse overnight.

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:56 pm
by dyqik
My second jab (Moderna) took three days to completely pass.

Can't comment on the arm though, as I make sure to get my jabs in the shoulder that I broke the collarbone on, and which hurts all the time anyway. Might as well put all the pain in the same place, even if it's my dominant arm.

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:13 am
by Tessa K
I had the booster yesterday lunchtime (Pfizer, the same as the first two).

I started a very mild cold on Monday night but had no high temperature before the vax (and did a Covid test to be sure).

I spent most of last night awake with my temperature going up and down and my arm is really sore.

Re: Booster vaccination

Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:32 pm
by discovolante
I have a slight bee in my bonnet, although I appreciate difficult decisions, many countries entirely unvaccinated etc. Currently it is people of a certain age and the extremely clinically vulnerable getting jabbed. But for example i was, i think, in group 6. So I got my first jab in march and second in may, both AZ because i got the first shortly before the big clot scare. And apparently AZ starts to wear off after about 5 months I.e. now. But I'm not down for a booster and presumably neither are any other group 6ers, many of whom will have probably had AZ. Whereas the younger people not in any group got jabbed later (obviously risky for them to wait but we also had more restrictions then), so their vaccines will wear off later too, perhaps as we reach the new year and the booster gets rolled out nationally as it seems will be the case.

So it seems we have a group of potentially vulnerable people with waning vaccines just over Christmas and new year when disease is at it's most spready? Not entirely happy with that, if I'm right...especially as I'm one of them!