Booster vaccination

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discovolante
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by discovolante » Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:54 pm

discovolante wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:48 am
FairySmall wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:18 am
headshot wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:44 pm
This from the NHS site:
Thanks for the screen grab headshot. I can't work out if it's changed or if I was looking in a different place with a totally different list of what makes you eligible for a booster. Apparently that one does make me eligible, go figure!

BTW I got a choice of date, time and centre so hopefully your limited window of opportunity shouldn't be too problematic.
I looked at the JCVI green book yesterday and it was updated on 29 October...however it's not entirely clear what has been updated. The update for 29 October says (among other things): "updated definitions of clinically vulnerable" but for 16 Septemebr it also says "Clarification of clinical risk groups for children and adults and the use of the clinically extremely vulnerable definition."

So I'm not sure what the difference is between a clarification and an update in this context...but I guess it's more likely that changes were made to broaden it on 29 October, but without seeing the earlier versions it's hard to know what? It's probably archived somewhere but I can't find it atm.
Readers, I got boosted. So, defo worth a try.
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by headshot » Sun Nov 14, 2021 6:57 pm

discovolante wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:54 pm
Readers, I got boosted. So, defo worth a try.
Interesting. Did you have to define/justify your underlying condition, or higher risk factor?

Frau HS can book from Tuesday, so we’re going to give it a go.

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by discovolante » Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:44 pm

headshot wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 6:57 pm
discovolante wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:54 pm
Readers, I got boosted. So, defo worth a try.
Interesting. Did you have to define/justify your underlying condition, or higher risk factor?

Frau HS can book from Tuesday, so we’re going to give it a go.
No it was all good! I feel quite sure they changed the guidance fairly recently...I mean it's possible that I'd just got it wrong but I did check more than once. Fingers crossed for Frau HS.
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by Herainestold » Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:49 am

shpalman wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 8:45 am
shpalman wrote:
Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:30 pm
lpm wrote:
Sat Nov 13, 2021 6:35 pm
In a tsunami it's better to be in the sea.

The area under the curves gives the UK its awful death toll. But it also give the UK its high level of immunity.
That's my point. You don't really have much to worry about regarding what's going on in the rest of Europe.
Is Europe’s Covid wave coming here – or is Britain ahead of the curve?

tl;dr you've been having this wave since July, it's not like it can get any worse. Only 15,000 people died, who cares.
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We also need to realise there will be breakthrough infections that are real, we now know that vaccinated people can still transmit the virus, and that is going to be running through our populations to some degree.

“How high we want those rates to be is highly determined by our complacency and our relaxation of some of the rules that we had in place, that last year I thought we’re actually over the top, and now this year, I think insufficient.”

He added that bringing restrictions to an end in July, when the UK was doing well with vaccinating people, gave the impression there was a “black and white” answer to the pandemic.

Prof Spector said: “We have to realise we just have to in some way control (it) into something that doesn’t cause as much loss of life, doesn’t cause morbidities, and reduce that.

“And to do that is a combination of the vaccines, the medicines, etc. But also we have to keep some public health measures in place to keep those numbers down – we’re not doing that.”

“And that’s why for the last three months, we’ve had the highest rates not only of cases but also hospitalisations in western Europe.

“And I think it’s pretty unwise for a country that has such a perilous health system – even at this stage about 7% of hospital beds full of Covid – at a time when we’ve got massive other health needs.

“So we’re not doing enough, we are too complacent. The Government has a sort of a black and white approach and I think the public health messaging from the Government has been appalling.”
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/vacc ... 65757.html
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by lpm » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:45 am

Yes. This will be a long term, ongoing problem.

Which is why calls for lockdown need to be given a timeframe. Lockdown for a month? For five years? Close theatres this pantomime season and keep closing year after year?

Without that framing it's just cost free waffle. He wants "public health measures" for years. What does this mean? What are the costs?

Meanwhile, looks like all adults will get their 3rd vaccination, then annual boosters until the end of time. Has this been costed? What resources are needed for 50 million Covid vaccinations, plus 25 million flu, plus childhood vaccinations?
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by shpalman » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:49 am

Booster jabs in UK to be extended to those between 40 and 49 years old
Chairman of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) Prof Wei Shen Lim has just made the following announcement at a Downing Street press briefing: the booster jab programme in the UK is extended to people aged 40 to 49. Either Pfizer or Moderna can be used, regardless of the type of vaccine received for the first two doses. The gap again will be six months from the second dose of vaccine.
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by shpalman » Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:34 am

shpalman wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:49 am
Booster jabs in UK to be extended to those between 40 and 49 years old
Chairman of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) Prof Wei Shen Lim has just made the following announcement at a Downing Street press briefing: the booster jab programme in the UK is extended to people aged 40 to 49. Either Pfizer or Moderna can be used, regardless of the type of vaccine received for the first two doses. The gap again will be six months from the second dose of vaccine.
more fuller story

Not obvious when this is going to happen, apart from Sajid Javid saying “I have asked the NHS to prepare to offer those eligible a vaccine as soon as possible.”

So get ready for the NHS to prepare to offer it.
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by discovolante » Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:54 am

shpalman wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:34 am
shpalman wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:49 am
Booster jabs in UK to be extended to those between 40 and 49 years old
Chairman of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) Prof Wei Shen Lim has just made the following announcement at a Downing Street press briefing: the booster jab programme in the UK is extended to people aged 40 to 49. Either Pfizer or Moderna can be used, regardless of the type of vaccine received for the first two doses. The gap again will be six months from the second dose of vaccine.
more fuller story

Not obvious when this is going to happen, apart from Sajid Javid saying “I have asked the NHS to prepare to offer those eligible a vaccine as soon as possible.”

So get ready for the NHS to prepare to offer it.
I think for over 40s we are talking about July time for second dose, so there is time to prepare...maybe I'm being naive but I struggle to imagine it not happening.
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by sTeamTraen » Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:03 pm

Do we know what vaccines are being given for the boosters?

Here in Spain, everyone is getting Pfizer (or perhaps Moderna). Mrs sTeamTraen and I both had AZ for our first two, so we are looking forward to the "balanced diet" effect of mixing 'n' matching.
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by Brightonian » Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:27 pm

sTeamTraen wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:03 pm
Do we know what vaccines are being given for the boosters?

Here in Spain, everyone is getting Pfizer (or perhaps Moderna). Mrs sTeamTraen and I both had AZ for our first two, so we are looking forward to the "balanced diet" effect of mixing 'n' matching.
I'm due to get Moderna, next week. Had AZ for my first two.

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by Gfamily » Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:49 pm

Mrs G had Pfizer for#1 &2, and Moderna for the booster.
Mine's a couple of weeks off, I had AZ for #1&2, so it'll be interesting to see what I get for the booster.
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by headshot » Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:59 pm

Frau HS and I had ours in mid and late June respectively. She should get hers just before Christmas. I'll have to wait until the New Year as we're away over the Chrimbo period.

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by nezumi » Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:04 pm

Done, pfizer. So far so nothing at all. Barely felt the needle, didn't feel the liquid going in, arm is perfectly fine and I feel roughly the same amount of shite I normally do. I think it's probably all been zapped already :D

EDIT to add: I know the liquid went in I watched it. Always guaranteed to freak out the nurse :lol:
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by OffTheRock » Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:11 pm

sTeamTraen wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:03 pm
Do we know what vaccines are being given for the boosters?

Here in Spain, everyone is getting Pfizer (or perhaps Moderna). Mrs sTeamTraen and I both had AZ for our first two, so we are looking forward to the "balanced diet" effect of mixing 'n' matching.
Pfizer or Moderna only in the U.K. , unless there is a medical reason why you can’t have either of those two. If you can’t have an mRNA vaccine then you can be referred for an AZ by your GP.

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by sTeamTraen » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:52 pm

lpm wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:36 pm
Hmm.

Oscillation.

During the ups everyone writes articles and twitter threads about how it's rising relentlessly and what it means for Plan B.

During the downs everyone writes articles and twitter threads about how it's falling due to boosters or schools.

Everything he writes appears logical and obviously boosters increase average immunity. The story makes sense as a narrative. But is it anything more than a story? We keep having these little story telling episodes. Football! G7 in Cornwall! Nightclubs! Teenagers!

You could probably spin an alternative story about how the elderly are staying indoors more now following the clock changes and colder weather, digging out some statistic or other.

I find it all pretty dubious. I'd just say hospital rates are falling now because cases started falling two or three weeks ago, death rates are starting to follow - and the fall in cases happened after the rise in cases which was after the fall in cases and the rise in cases before that.
Four days ago, at about 1:30pm UK time, John Burn-Murdoch tweeted about how the UK had had the longest sequence of days of declining cases since February. Two and a half hours later, the daily figures showed an increase of around 6500, and there have now been five successive days of week-on-week increases, averaging (presumably mostly coincidentally) 6500. A lot of Covid statistics are basically the same as sports statistics: There to fill in the gaps in commentary, but mostly useless for anything else.
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by Herainestold » Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:45 am

sTeamTraen wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:52 pm
lpm wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:36 pm
Hmm.

Oscillation.

During the ups everyone writes articles and twitter threads about how it's rising relentlessly and what it means for Plan B.

During the downs everyone writes articles and twitter threads about how it's falling due to boosters or schools.

Everything he writes appears logical and obviously boosters increase average immunity. The story makes sense as a narrative. But is it anything more than a story? We keep having these little story telling episodes. Football! G7 in Cornwall! Nightclubs! Teenagers!

You could probably spin an alternative story about how the elderly are staying indoors more now following the clock changes and colder weather, digging out some statistic or other.

I find it all pretty dubious. I'd just say hospital rates are falling now because cases started falling two or three weeks ago, death rates are starting to follow - and the fall in cases happened after the rise in cases which was after the fall in cases and the rise in cases before that.
Four days ago, at about 1:30pm UK time, John Burn-Murdoch tweeted about how the UK had had the longest sequence of days of declining cases since February. Two and a half hours later, the daily figures showed an increase of around 6500, and there have now been five successive days of week-on-week increases, averaging (presumably mostly coincidentally) 6500. A lot of Covid statistics are basically the same as sports statistics: There to fill in the gaps in commentary, but mostly useless for anything else.
Something is going on. With a reasonable vaccination rate and huge outbreaks last year and continued high case numbers this year, there should be a lot of community immunity from infections in conjunction with vaccine immunity, the virus should be running out of fresh people to infect. Cases remain very high and have been high for weeks. Why aren't cases declining?

We are seeing immunity waning quite rapidly. Certainly faster than we can boost. We will see continued high cases and pulses and waves of infection as some kind of equilibrium is reached. Unfortunately it looks like a high equilibrium. We can expect some where between 60000 and 80000 deaths per annum.

Better get used to it.
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by OffTheRock » Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:13 am

I would say schools play a huge part in what’s going on. Delta seems to spread in them in a way that other variants didn’t. Last year it wasn’t unusual to get a couple of cases in a class and that would be it. Now it’s not unusual for half the class to get it.

I doubt it’s a coincidence that the fall in case numbers co-included with half term in England. Lots of schools went for a two week half term with some variation about when. The earliest schools will have had the last 2 weeks of October off. Some of the later ones didn’t go back until last week.

Given that the highest rates were in school age children, I’m a bit surprised that anybody would be confidently tweeting that cases were falling in the middle of school holidays with the assumption it was going to last.

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by TopBadger » Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:07 pm

What is the advice on getting boosters for those that have recently had Covid? Seems to be little point in boosting an immune response with a fake virus when you've recently had the real thing.

Aside - losing sense of smell and taste is a real f.cking downer... still waiting for mine to come back.
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by headshot » Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:36 pm

UPDATE: Frau HS rang 119 to book an appointment as her 152 days are now up, but they told her she wasn't eligible - despite her asthma and her qualifying for an annual flu vaccine for free - which she had in October.

The system seems to be a bit hit and miss.

So we'll just wait until next week when they allow 40-49 year olds to book. Though that means no booster shot for our trip to the Dresdener inlaws this Xmas - we'll have to wait until the new year.

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by discovolante » Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:52 pm

headshot wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:36 pm
UPDATE: Frau HS rang 119 to book an appointment as her 152 days are now up, but they told her she wasn't eligible - despite her asthma and her qualifying for an annual flu vaccine for free - which she had in October.

The system seems to be a bit hit and miss.

So we'll just wait until next week when they allow 40-49 year olds to book. Though that means no booster shot for our trip to the Dresdener inlaws this Xmas - we'll have to wait until the new year.
That's very annoying. I'm sure you've done your homework but has she double checked the green book?

Seems it may well be easier to get a booster if you can get it the same time as the flu jab!
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by OffTheRock » Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:27 pm

discovolante wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:52 pm
headshot wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:36 pm
UPDATE: Frau HS rang 119 to book an appointment as her 152 days are now up, but they told her she wasn't eligible - despite her asthma and her qualifying for an annual flu vaccine for free - which she had in October.

The system seems to be a bit hit and miss.

So we'll just wait until next week when they allow 40-49 year olds to book. Though that means no booster shot for our trip to the Dresdener inlaws this Xmas - we'll have to wait until the new year.
That's very annoying. I'm sure you've done your homework but has she double checked the green book?

Seems it may well be easier to get a booster if you can get it the same time as the flu jab!
They chopped off a load of the asthmatics from the covid booster list. Not all of the people originally vaccinated in group 6 qualify for a booster. Which means there’s going to be a load of under 40 asthmatics who are 6 months past their second dose but won’t be getting a booster until the jcvi decides to vaccinate their age group.

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by discovolante » Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:10 pm

OffTheRock wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:27 pm
discovolante wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:52 pm
headshot wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:36 pm
UPDATE: Frau HS rang 119 to book an appointment as her 152 days are now up, but they told her she wasn't eligible - despite her asthma and her qualifying for an annual flu vaccine for free - which she had in October.

The system seems to be a bit hit and miss.

So we'll just wait until next week when they allow 40-49 year olds to book. Though that means no booster shot for our trip to the Dresdener inlaws this Xmas - we'll have to wait until the new year.
That's very annoying. I'm sure you've done your homework but has she double checked the green book?

Seems it may well be easier to get a booster if you can get it the same time as the flu jab!
They chopped off a load of the asthmatics from the covid booster list. Not all of the people originally vaccinated in group 6 qualify for a booster. Which means there’s going to be a load of under 40 asthmatics who are 6 months past their second dose but won’t be getting a booster until the jcvi decides to vaccinate their age group.
Which takes us full circle to my original complaint...which I seem to have got around but it seems there are still gaps. I assumed they'd basically expanded it to include everyone previously in group 6 but apparently not :? Do you have links to the 'before' and 'after' guidance? Because the updated green book seems to use the same table for descriptions of priority for primary groups and booster doses...which seems odd tbh :?
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by OffTheRock » Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:09 pm

discovolante wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:10 pm
OffTheRock wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:27 pm
discovolante wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:52 pm


That's very annoying. I'm sure you've done your homework but has she double checked the green book?

Seems it may well be easier to get a booster if you can get it the same time as the flu jab!
They chopped off a load of the asthmatics from the covid booster list. Not all of the people originally vaccinated in group 6 qualify for a booster. Which means there’s going to be a load of under 40 asthmatics who are 6 months past their second dose but won’t be getting a booster until the jcvi decides to vaccinate their age group.
Which takes us full circle to my original complaint...which I seem to have got around but it seems there are still gaps. I assumed they'd basically expanded it to include everyone previously in group 6 but apparently not :? Do you have links to the 'before' and 'after' guidance? Because the updated green book seems to use the same table for descriptions of priority for primary groups and booster doses...which seems odd tbh :?
https://www.brit-thoracic.org.uk/covid- ... ith-asthma

This gives the current guidance that is in the green book but also says that some people identified in phase 1 as being part of group 6 no longer are. I can’t, annoyingly, seem to find anything anywhere that says what the previous criteria were. It may well have been anyone with asthma that wasn’t CEV/group 4 and was eligible for a flu jab.

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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by discovolante » Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:25 pm

OffTheRock wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:09 pm
discovolante wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:10 pm
OffTheRock wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:27 pm


They chopped off a load of the asthmatics from the covid booster list. Not all of the people originally vaccinated in group 6 qualify for a booster. Which means there’s going to be a load of under 40 asthmatics who are 6 months past their second dose but won’t be getting a booster until the jcvi decides to vaccinate their age group.
Which takes us full circle to my original complaint...which I seem to have got around but it seems there are still gaps. I assumed they'd basically expanded it to include everyone previously in group 6 but apparently not :? Do you have links to the 'before' and 'after' guidance? Because the updated green book seems to use the same table for descriptions of priority for primary groups and booster doses...which seems odd tbh :?
https://www.brit-thoracic.org.uk/covid- ... ith-asthma

This gives the current guidance that is in the green book but also says that some people identified in phase 1 as being part of group 6 no longer are. I can’t, annoyingly, seem to find anything anywhere that says what the previous criteria were. It may well have been anyone with asthma that wasn’t CEV/group 4 and was eligible for a flu jab.
Ah, thanks. Yeah it's really annoying, the list of updates to the green book are very vague. Anyway I have had a look via the wayback machine. In December 2020 it said:
Individuals with a severe lung condition, including those with asthma that
requires continuous or repeated use of systemic steroids or with previous
exacerbations requiring hospital admission, and chronic obstructive
pulmonary disease (COPD) including chronic bronchitis and emphysema;
bronchiectasis, cystic fibrosis, interstitial lung fibrosis, pneumoconiosis and
bronchopulmonary dysplasia (BPD).
Now it says:
Individuals with a severe lung condition, including those with poorly
controlled asthma1 and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD)
including chronic bronchitis and emphysema; bronchiectasis, cystic
fibrosis, interstitial lung fibrosis, pneumoconiosis and bronchopulmonary
dysplasia (BPD).

1 Poorly controlled asthma is defined as:
- ≥2 courses of oral corticosteroids in the preceding 24 months OR
- on maintenance oral corticosteroids OR
- ≥1 hospital admission for asthma in the preceding 24 months
https://www.brit-thoracic.org.uk/covid- ... vi-advice-
on-covid-19-booster-vaccination-for-adults-in-clinical-at-risk-groups-and-adults-with-asthma
Although I'm not sure how helpful that is because the guidance for people with asthma changed quite a lot to begin with didn't it? So I'd need to know when the group 6 category was finalised to get the right date and make a proper comparison
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Re: Booster vaccination

Post by nezumi » Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:32 pm

Have they done a reassessment based on the same criteria as 2020? One of those criteria was to have had (I probably don't remember this correctly but) something like 2 rounds of steroids in the past 12 months or a stint in hospital in the last 5 years, or be on 3+ asthma drugs to manage the condition. Lots of us haven't had a respiratory infection in the last 18 months so may have dropped off the list. Others may have stepped down medication for the same reasons.
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