Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

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Herainestold
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Herainestold » Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:57 am

Chris Preston wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:18 am
jdc wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:45 pm
I think Herainestold had a figure of 39% for Israel.
That was for people protected by one dose of Pfizer vaccine. It was 64% protection against infection for 2 doses.
No, that was UK study that had Pfizer 36% after one dose. The Israeli data showed 39% after two doses. Vaccine efficacy appears to be diminishing rapidly and alarmingly in the face of Delta
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Herainestold » Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:29 am

Chris Preston wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:18 am
jdc wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:45 pm
I think Herainestold had a figure of 39% for Israel.
That was for people protected by one dose of Pfizer vaccine. It was 64% protection against infection for 2 doses.
That was the English data, Chris. Israeli data shows 39% for two Pfizer doses. oops, duplicate post, sorry
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:06 pm

here's how to interpret the Israeli efficacy data
After accounting for the vaccination rates and stratifying by age groups, from these same data it can be seen that the vaccines retain high efficacy (85-95%) vs. severe disease, showing that when it comes to preventing severe disease, the Pfizer vaccine is still performing very well vs. Delta, even in Israel from whence the most concerning data have arisen.
molto tricky

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shpalman
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:34 pm

molto tricky

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:00 pm

molto tricky

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Herainestold » Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:25 am

shpalman wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:00 pm
India approves DNA vaccine for covid
ZyCov-D is also India's first needle-free Covid-19 jab.

It is administered with a disposable needle-free injector, which uses a narrow stream of the fluid to penetrate the skin and deliver the jab to the proper tissue.
DNA vaccines developed for infectious diseases in humans have failed in the past.

"The problem is they work well in animals. But they don't end up offering the same level of immune response protection in humans," said Dr Kang.

The challenge, according to Dr Kang, was how to push the plasmid DNA into the human cell so that it gives a durable immune response.

Dr Jeremy Kamil, a virologist at Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center in Shreveport, echoed a similar sentiment.

"Plasmid DNA vaccines have been tried in the past. But we know it's very difficult to get plasmid DNA into the nucleus of human cells, especially in adults," Dr Kamil told me.
Can anybody explain why DNA vaccines would work in animals but not humans?
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by bob sterman » Sat Aug 21, 2021 7:21 am

Herainestold wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:25 am
Can anybody explain why DNA vaccines would work in animals but not humans?
In humans the term "DNA" sends antivxaxers into a frothing rage!!! :o

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Sat Aug 21, 2021 7:37 am

Can anyone explain what the f.ck they think they mean with "world's first DNA vaccine"? ChAdOx1 has DNA in it too. Do they just mean it's a plasmid (a ring of DNA) so that the DNA isn't in some sort of protein shell? I notice the article mentions the mRNA vaccines but not ChAdOx1.

Did the BBC just decide we wouldn't understand (i.e. the correspond didn't understand) the word "plasmid"?

ZyCoV_D PrEsS ReLeAsE (published 1st July 2021)

Safety and Immunogenicity of a DNA SARS-CoV-2 vaccine (ZyCoV-D): Results of an open-label, non-randomized phase I part of phase I/II clinical study by intradermal route in healthy subjects in India (published 16th July 2021)

I suppose the regulator has seen the Phase III data but we'll have to wait.
molto tricky

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by jdc » Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:15 pm

shpalman wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 7:37 am

Did the BBC just decide we wouldn't understand (i.e. the correspond didn't understand) the word "plasmid"?
DNA vaccine seems to be the term science-type people use, so I don't think you can blame the BBC for this one.

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:22 pm

jdc wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:15 pm
shpalman wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 7:37 am

Did the BBC just decide we wouldn't understand (i.e. the correspond didn't understand) the word "plasmid"?
DNA vaccine seems to be the term science-type people use, so I don't think you can blame the BBC for this one.
In the press release it's always "plasmid DNA vaccine" never just "DNA vaccine".
molto tricky

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by jdc » Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:57 pm

shpalman wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:22 pm
jdc wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:15 pm
shpalman wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 7:37 am

Did the BBC just decide we wouldn't understand (i.e. the correspond didn't understand) the word "plasmid"?
DNA vaccine seems to be the term science-type people use, so I don't think you can blame the BBC for this one.
In the press release it's always "plasmid DNA vaccine" never just "DNA vaccine".
I was looking last night to see if I could answer H's question and I saw plenty of articles and academic papers where the term "DNA Vaccine" was used. tbf, I've also seen papers where they use the term "plasmid DNA vaccine" and papers where both terms were used so maybe I should have said "a" rather than "the".

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shpalman
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:02 pm

Well ok it would have been nice if the BBC would have been clearer and more immediate with the definition for non-specialist morons like me who were otherwise all like bUt teh AStrAzeNeCa haz DNA in it.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Herainestold » Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:26 pm

Can anyone explain to me what is the difference between this vaccine and ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 with respect to them being DNA vaccines?
ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 uses an adenovirus to get the DNA into your cells and the Indian vax uses DNA plasmid\ (whatever that means)..
Is that correct? What does it mean?
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by jdc » Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:56 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:26 pm
Can anyone explain to me what is the difference between this vaccine and ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 with respect to them being DNA vaccines?
ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 uses an adenovirus to get the DNA into your cells and the Indian vax uses DNA plasmid\ (whatever that means)..
Is that correct? What does it mean?
The term 'DNA vaccine' is used for plasmid vaccines, and they use 'viral vector vaccine' or just 'vector vaccine' as the term for something like ChAdOx; plasmids are naked DNA molecules, whereas in a virus the DNA is wearing a coat.

If you fancy a wiki walk, you can get from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_vaccine via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasmid to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replicon_(genetics) I think Dr Who defeated the Replicons in series 4 though.

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Herainestold » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:55 pm

Thanks jdc.

In other news America's FDA has given full approval to Pfizer.
The Food and Drug Administration on Monday granted full approval to the Covid-19 vaccine developed by Pfizer and its partner BioNTech, a long-awaited development that public health officials hope will persuade some people who remain hesitant about the vaccine to get the shot.

The vaccine is the first of the pandemic vaccines used in the United States to transition from emergency use status to full licensure, a major victory for a partnership that decided to forgo funding through the government’s Operation Warp Speed program on the belief that the development project could move faster without being part of the government fast-tracking program.

The FDA said the vaccine was now approved for use in people ages 16 and up, the only group for which Pfizer now has the required six months of followup safety data. Study of the vaccine in 12- to 15-year-olds began later, and the six-month followup is still underway. Until it can be submitted to the FDA and an extension of the license can be issued, the vaccine will continue to be used in 12- to 15-year-olds under the emergency use authorization.

Pfizer and BioNTech are still conducting a clinical trial to support the vaccine’s use in children 11 and younger.
https://www.statnews.com/2021/08/23/fda ... er_organic
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:58 pm

shpalman wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:04 pm
Has anyone got the Johnson & Johnson publications to hand, only I've only been following the Pfizer and (mainly) AstraZeneca ones?

In particular, the Johnson & Johnson stipulates only a single dose, whereas much was made of pointing out that AstraZeneca works well with one dose for 3-12 weeks after that dose, at which point you need another one, which contradicts to some degree their dose protocol which they'd worked out after Phase II I presume. Of course, really long-term stuff is hard to know since these things have only recently been invented. But if AstraZeneca had assumed that a single dose would have been enough and stopped looking at Phase III data after 10-12 weeks in order to get the paper published then also they would be saying that a single dose was fine. So, over what timescales were the Johnson & Johnson trials run?
turns out that a second Johnson & Johnson dose is helpful after all
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:26 am

They seem to be talking about extending the validity of the Green Pass (presumably the one you get from a complete set of vaccinations) from 9 months to 12 months.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Woodchopper » Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:20 pm


Abstract
Background: On July 30, 2021, a third (booster) dose of the Pfizer BNT162b2 vaccine was approved in Israel for individuals 60 years or older who had been fully vaccinated (i.e., received two doses) at least five months previously. Here, we estimate the reduction in relative risk for confirmed infection and severe COVID-19 provided by the booster dose.

Methods: 1,144,690 individuals aged 60y and older who were eligible for a booster dose were followed between July 30 and August 22, 2021. We defined dynamic cohorts where individuals initially belong to the ‘non-booster’ cohort, leave it when receiving the booster dose and join the ‘booster’ cohort 12 days later. Rates of infection and severe COVID-19 outcomes per person-days at risk were compared between the cohorts using Poisson regression, adjusting for possible confounding factors.

Results: Twelve days or more after the booster dose we found an 11.4-fold (95% CI: [10.0, 12.9]) decrease in the relative risk of confirmed infection, and a >10-fold decrease in the relative risk of severe illness. Under a conservative sensitivity analysis, we find ≈5-fold protection against confirmed infection.

Conclusions: In conjunction with safety reports, this study demonstrates the effectiveness of a third vaccine dose in both reducing transmission and severe disease and indicates the great potential of curtailing the Delta variant resurgence by administering booster shots.
https://www.gov.il/BlobFolder/reports/v ... 082021.pdf

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Herainestold » Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:58 am

Cuba starts vaccinating two year olds.
Cuba on Thursday began a massive vaccination campaign for children between the ages of 2 and 10, becoming one of the first nations to do so. Health officials here say Cuba’s homegrown vaccines have been found safe to give to young children.

“Our country would not put (infants) even at a minimal risk if the vaccines were not proven save and highly effective when put into children,” Aurolis Otaño, director of the Vedado Polyclinic University, told The Associated Press in a vaccination room.

Otaño said the circulation of the Delta variant produced an increase in infections among the youngest, so Cuba’s scientific community decided to “take the vaccine to clinical trial” and it was approved for children.

In previous weeks, the vaccination of Cubans between 11 and 18 began. The plan includes two doses of Soberana 02 vaccine and one of Soberana Plus, as was done with adults.
I don't think Cuba has sought approval of its vaccines from any non Cuban regulators. I wonder if it will wane as quickly as their vaccine is 3 dose.

https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/a ... 465929.php
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by jdc » Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:47 pm

They're going for WHO approval to make it easier to sell it to other countries:

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/2 ... 9-vaccines
Cuba said Wednesday it would seek World Health Organization approval for two home-grown coronavirus vaccines it hopes to commercialize widely. A vetting process will start Thursday with WHO experts examining the nation's Abdala and Soberana 02 jabs, said Rolando Perez of state pharma group BioCubaFarma.

...

Perez said Cuba's ability to sell its vaccines to other countries does not depend on WHO approval, as this is a decision for national health authorities. But it would "facilitate (the vaccines') entry into the market in other nations, once the island's needs are covered."

Several countries including Argentina and Mexico have shown interest in acquiring the Cuban jabs, Venezuela has already signed a purchase contract, and Iran is producing Soberana 02 on home soil.

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Herainestold » Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:20 pm

Good to see them seeking WHO approval, but the people who benefit from the Cuban vaccine aren't going to get any of Europe or America to recognize it in their vax passport.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:04 am


The first study to look directly at how well vaccines prevent the spread of the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2 brings good news and bad.

The study shows that people who become infected with the Delta variant are less likely to pass the virus to their close contacts if they have already had a COVID-19 vaccine than if they haven’t1. But that protective effect is relatively small, and dwindles alarmingly at three months after the receipt of the second shot.

[…]

Previous studies have found that people infected with Delta have roughly the same levels of viral genetic materials in their noses regardless of whether they’d previously been vaccinated, suggesting that vaccinated and unvaccinated people might be equally infectious2. But studies also suggest that vaccinated people are less likely to spread the virus if they subsequently catch Delta: their levels of nasal virus drop faster than do those of unvaccinated infected people, and their nasal swabs contain smaller amounts of infectious virus3,4.

The latest study examined the effect of vaccines on transmission more directly. It analysed testing data from 139,164 close contacts of 95,716 people infected with SARS-CoV-2 between January and August 2021 in the United Kingdom, when the Alpha and Delta variants were competing for dominance.

The authors found that although the vaccines did offer some protection against infection and onward transmission, Delta dampened that effect. A person who was fully vaccinated and then had a ‘breakthrough’ Delta infection was almost twice as likely to pass on the virus as someone who was infected with Alpha. And that was on top of the higher risk of having a breakthrough infection caused by Delta than one caused by Alpha.

Unfortunately, the vaccine’s beneficial effect on Delta transmission waned to almost negligible levels over time. In people infected 2 weeks after receiving the vaccine developed by the University of Oxford and AstraZeneca, both in the UK, the chance that an unvaccinated close contact would test positive was 57%, but 3 months later, that chance rose to 67%. The latter figure is on par with the likelihood that an unvaccinated person will spread the virus.

A reduction was also observed in people vaccinated with the jab made by US company Pfizer and German firm BioNTech. The risk of spreading the Delta infection soon after vaccination with that jab was 42%, but increased to 58% with time.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y

Note that this just concerns vaccinated people who are infected. Vaccination also reduces the number of people who are infected.

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shpalman
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:25 am

But there's "the higher risk of having a breakthrough infection caused by Delta than one caused by Alpha."

Italian data suggests about a factor of 5 between the number of infections in vaccinated and unvaccinated but English data showed that you've got no idea how many people live in your country so who knows.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Herainestold » Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:27 pm

The more data we get and the more immunity wanes, the more marginal vaccine protection becomes.
We are going to need frequent boosters to protect ourselves from increasingly virulent variants like Delta.
It shows the folly of relying on a vaccines only policy, when we have effective RPIs for mitigation, which we seem to have completely abandoned.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by lpm » Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:40 pm

You know hospital rates are falling, right?
What ever happened to that Trump guy, you know, the one who was president for a bit?

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