Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

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shpalman
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:04 am

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:34 pm

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Herainestold » Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:38 pm

Oxford wouldn't be doing this if they thought theirs was effective. They must have doubts.

I wonder if there Are big risks in mixing vaccines? I certainly would not enroll in this trial

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:42 pm

Specifically it's because the Oxford one is using the same viral vector twice and there's a possibility that a person's immune system destroys the virus so quickly the second time that it doesn't have a chance to generate enough covid-like material to provoke a strong immune reaction to covid.

There's no particular reason to consider it unsafe, unless you don't trust the Russian vaccine at all, and the question of how efficacious it would be is why there's going to be a trial.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:43 pm

shpalman wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:42 pm
Specifically it's because the Oxford one is using the same viral vector twice and there's a possibility that a person's immune system destroys the virus so quickly the second time that it doesn't have a chance to generate enough covid-like material to provoke a strong immune reaction to covid (this is a suggestion for why it seemed to work better with the accidentally half-sized first dose, assuming you believe that result to be statistically significant).

There's no particular reason to consider it unsafe, unless you don't trust the Russian vaccine at all, and the question of how efficacious it would be is why there's going to be a trial.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Herainestold » Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:10 pm

shpalman wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:42 pm
Specifically it's because the Oxford one is using the same viral vector twice and there's a possibility that a person's immune system destroys the virus so quickly the second time that it doesn't have a chance to generate enough covid-like material to provoke a strong immune reaction to covid.

There's no particular reason to consider it unsafe, unless you don't trust the Russian vaccine at all, and the question of how efficacious it would be is why there's going to be a trial.
Thanks for that explanation.

I realize that is why there is going to be a trial, and I will let others volunteer for it. I will not. I would willingly take one of the other vaccines, indeed I want to, but not this one, not now.

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:08 pm

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:10 pm

shpalman wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:08 pm
tobacco-based vaccine
Not for the first time I think to myself, "I picked a hell of a year to give up smoking."
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Herainestold » Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:26 pm

shpalman wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:08 pm
tobacco-based vaccine
Is this a GM O based technique? I'm just thinking it would not be legal in the EU or the UK?


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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:30 pm

this is what the EU is paying for a dose of each vaccine

Oxford/AstraZeneca: €1.78
Johnson & Johnson: $8.50
Sanofi/GSK: €7.56
Pfizer/BioNTech: €12
CureVac: €10
Moderna: $18
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Herainestold » Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:28 pm

shpalman wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:30 pm
this is what the EU is paying for a dose of each vaccine

Oxford/AstraZeneca: €1.78
Johnson & Johnson: $8.50
Sanofi/GSK: €7.56
Pfizer/BioNTech: €12
CureVac: €10
Moderna: $18
You need to express these values in a common currency that is understood by all.

Pounds sterling, or failing that, Mongolian Tughrik.

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Herainestold » Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:52 pm

shpalman wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:30 pm
this is what the EU is paying for a dose of each vaccine

Oxford/AstraZeneca: 6 218 MNT
Johnson & Johnson: 24 257 MNT
Sanofi/GSK: 26 413 MNT
Pfizer/BioNTech: 41 397 MNT
CureVac: 41 397 MNT
Moderna: 51 351 MNT
Mongolian Tugrik

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:00 pm

Thanks, that's much easier to understand.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:05 pm

The CureVac one is only 34,653.89 ₮.

However, to put it in a currency which the high-functioning alcoholic English middle-class can understand it needs to be expressed in bottles of smuggled prosecco.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by bolo » Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:10 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:00 pm
Thanks, that's much easier to understand.
Or to put it another way, wrong.

Presumably the payments in euros will be in euros, and the payments in dollars will be in dollars, and converting them into some other currency is going to be accurate, at best, for a few milliseconds, once.

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:17 pm

bolo wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:10 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:00 pm
Thanks, that's much easier to understand.
Or to put it another way, wrong.

Presumably the payments in euros will be in euros, and the payments in dollars will be in dollars, and converting them into some other currency is going to be accurate, at best, for a few milliseconds, once.
What can I say, I just happened to be there at the right time. As the old vaccine pricing forex adage goes, you snooze you lose.

Yes, I made the same presumption that the EU would be paying in the manufacturer's preferred currency or whatever.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Herainestold » Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:39 pm

shpalman wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:05 pm
The CureVac one is only 34,653.89 ₮.

However, to put it in a currency which the high-functioning alcoholic English middle-class can understand it needs to be expressed in bottles of smuggled prosecco.
I stand corrected. Thanks.

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Herainestold » Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:40 pm

bolo wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:10 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:00 pm
Thanks, that's much easier to understand.
Or to put it another way, wrong.

Presumably the payments in euros will be in euros, and the payments in dollars will be in dollars, and converting them into some other currency is going to be accurate, at best, for a few milliseconds, once.
True. I should have used bitcoin.

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:51 pm

How much is a bottle of Prosecco in Italy?

Portuguese espumante starts about 2,50€ and I don't think I've ever seen Prosecco here. Maybe some Italian non-DOP stuff. The wine market is almost entirely national here, with an aisle for each major Portuguese region in my local supermarket but just a couple of shelves for "vinhos do mundo".

Sometimes I just like the fizzy stuff. Makes it feel like a special occasion, instead of getting pissed in my flat again for the 277th consecutive night since lockdown began.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:07 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:51 pm
How much is a bottle of Prosecco in Italy?

Portuguese espumante starts about 2,50€ and I don't think I've ever seen Prosecco here. Maybe some Italian non-DOP stuff. The wine market is almost entirely national here, with an aisle for each major Portuguese region in my local supermarket but just a couple of shelves for "vinhos do mundo".

Sometimes I just like the fizzy stuff. Makes it feel like a special occasion, instead of getting pissed in my flat again for the 277th consecutive night since lockdown began.
Maybe starting around €4 and pretty decent already at €7 if you don't mind a headache. There's usually something on special offer. It's a while since I bought any and I still have a bottle left.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Herainestold » Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:17 pm

shpalman wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:07 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:51 pm
How much is a bottle of Prosecco in Italy?

Portuguese espumante starts about 2,50€ and I don't think I've ever seen Prosecco here. Maybe some Italian non-DOP stuff. The wine market is almost entirely national here, with an aisle for each major Portuguese region in my local supermarket but just a couple of shelves for "vinhos do mundo".

Sometimes I just like the fizzy stuff. Makes it feel like a special occasion, instead of getting pissed in my flat again for the 277th consecutive night since lockdown began.
Maybe starting around €4 and pretty decent already at €7 if you don't mind a headache. There's usually something on special offer. It's a while since I bought any and I still have a bottle left.
Enjoy your life. Drink it now.

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:27 pm

So between half and two bottles per shot, plus the smuggling surcharge. Seems reasonable. I'm even more accustomed to thinking about booze than about Mongolian Tugriks.

My uncle is an Italian chef in the UK, and my aunt lives on the stuff. In a normal year I'd be round there quaffing the pink stuff.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by sTeamTraen » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:07 pm

Our local Lidl had cava the other day for 1 Euro. It was fine, especially when made into Aperol Spritz using Lidl's knock-off called Bitterol (4 Euros a bottle).

A popular drink here is tinto de verano, which is half and half cheap red wine and fizzy clear lemonade (as in R. Whites etc, but usually sugar-free). Our local Carrefour has a 1-litre brick of wine for 64 cents and a 50cl bottle of gaseosa is 18 cents, so for exactly 1 Euro you have 2 litres of 5% ABV enjoyment. Why yes, binge drinking is a popular pastime among local youth, since you ask.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by AMS » Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:33 am

sTeamTraen wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:07 pm

A popular drink here is tinto de verano, which is half and half cheap red wine and fizzy clear lemonade (as in R. Whites etc, but usually sugar-free).
That sounds properly minging.

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