Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

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sTeamTraen
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by sTeamTraen » Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:19 pm

AMS wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:33 am
sTeamTraen wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:07 pm

A popular drink here is tinto de verano, which is half and half cheap red wine and fizzy clear lemonade (as in R. Whites etc, but usually sugar-free).
That sounds properly minging.
It does, until you try it. (Advanced version for kids: calimocho).

In some cheaper Spanish eateries, when you order the three-course set lunch (around €10-11 here in high-priced Mallorca), on the table there may be a litre bottle of wine, a carafe of water, and a bottle of lemonade. The last of those is not there for any children in the party, it's for you to mix your red wine with. It's fun to point this out to French tourists and watch their looks of horror.
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shpalman
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:28 pm

Italians don't do that, and I don't think watering down the wine is even much of a thing either even if they give you half a litre of the house whatever.
molto tricky

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JQH
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by JQH » Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:39 pm

sTeamTraen wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:19 pm

In some cheaper Spanish eateries, when you order the three-course set lunch (around €10-11 here in high-priced Mallorca), on the table there may be a litre bottle of wine, a carafe of water, and a bottle of lemonade. The last of those is not there for any children in the party, it's for you to mix your red wine with. It's fun to point this out to French tourists and watch their looks of horror.
It was the case when I visited Crete too.

And if you ever tried drinking the wine neat you soon learned why.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:32 pm

Yesterday's carafes, tomorrow's sangria.
THINK BIG AND UPEND THE SYSTEM

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:37 pm

c.nty fascist inadequate Bolsonaro has let the sh.t from his brain dribble out through his mouth holes again:
Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro criticized the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine in a bizarre rant, On Thursday.

He suggested that the COVID-19 vaccine could result in people turning into crocodiles, women growing beards, and men speaking with effeminate voices, according to AFP.

Bolsonaro said: "In the Pfizer contract, it's very clear. 'We're not responsible for any side effects.' If you turn into a crocodile, that's your problem."

He continued: "If you become superhuman, if a woman starts to grow a beard or if a man starts to speak with an effeminate voice, they [Pfizer] won't have anything to do with it," he said.

Despite launching Brazil's national vaccination rollout on Wednesday, Bolsonaro has insisted that he will not be vaccinated.

He told AFP: "Some people say I'm giving a bad example. But to the imbeciles, to the idiots that say this, I tell them I've already caught the virus, I have the antibodies, so why get vaccinated?"
Bolsonaro has played down the pandemic for many months. In May, he referred to the coronavirus as a "little flu."

In July, he tested positive for the virus and came down with a fever. It took him three weeks to recover. A month later, Bolsonaro told journalists: "I knew I was going to catch it someday, as I think unfortunately nearly everyone here is going to catch it eventually. What are you afraid of? Face up to it!"

Last week, he said that Brazil was at the "tail end of the pandemic."

Brazil is currently experiencing a surge in coronavirus cases. On Wednesday, the country set daily records for COVID-19 infections with over 70,000 new cases reported.

A day later, the country recorded more than 1,000 deaths in a 24-hour period.

Brazil has the world's second-highest coronavirus death toll, only surpassed by the US.
https://www.businessinsider.com/bolsona ... es-2020-12
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raven
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by raven » Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:06 pm

Was Bolsonaro always that batshit, or is that a prime example of Long Covid's deleterious effects on cognition?

Honestly, you couldn't make this sh.t up.

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Martin Y
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Martin Y » Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:13 pm

This is what The Powers That Be fear most and they will try to prevent it. If people get two different jabs, the Microsoft nanobots will fight the Pfizer nanobots to the death and the survivors will be a race of supernanobots which will imbue the recipient with one or more of a list of superpowers, not yet predictable but probably including psychic wifi.

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:46 pm

shpalman wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:13 pm
Some of it is apparently on its way to the UK via the Eurotunnel.

Good job there won't be any barriers or impediments to UK-Continent road freight over the next few months.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:55 pm

shpalman wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:46 pm
shpalman wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:13 pm
Some of it is apparently on its way to the UK via the Eurotunnel.

Good job there won't be any barriers or impediments to UK-Continent road freight over the next few months.
It's OK apparently it arrives by container not by lorry, says a surprised Grant Shapps.
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lpm
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by lpm » Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:07 pm

What's the betting that the govt organises the vaccine deliveries perfectly, but then finds all the syringes are stuck in a lorry in Calais?
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bob sterman
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by bob sterman » Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:29 pm

Can anyone knowledgeable shed some light on the following?

Presumably the RNA sequence in the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines could be tweaked quite quickly if this turned out to be necessary to maintain effectiveness against new variants of the virus - but how much testing would be needed before a new version of these vaccines could be released? It wouldn't be back to square one would it?

And what about the Oxford–AstraZeneca vaccine? Again presumably the RNA sequence could be tweaked - but what if people exposed to the previous version of this vaccine developed immunity to the adenovirus vector? Presumably they'd need a new viral vector so it really would be back to square one in terms of safey testing.

So if we do have to get into a cycle of annual vaccination (as we do for influenza) would the Pfizer and Moderna technology be much better suited to this?

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:39 pm

bob sterman wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:29 pm
Can anyone knowledgeable shed some light on the following?

Presumably the RNA sequence in the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines could be tweaked quite quickly if this turned out to be necessary to maintain effectiveness against new variants of the virus - but how much testing would be needed before a new version of these vaccines could be released? It wouldn't be back to square one would it?

And what about the Oxford–AstraZeneca vaccine? Again presumably the RNA sequence could be tweaked - but what if people exposed to the previous version of this vaccine developed immunity to the adenovirus vector? Presumably they'd need a new viral vector so it really would be back to square one in terms of safey testing.

So if we do have to get into a cycle of annual vaccination (as we do for influenza) would the Pfizer and Moderna technology be much better suited to this?
Interesting point regarding the adenovirus vector.

Regarding the mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna, I think only the Phase I testing would need to be redone.

I'd be more worried if the current mRNA vaccines aren't effective enough against this new strain but tweaking them would render them ineffective against the older variants; that would be annoying, you'd need two versions and wouldn't know which one to give someone.

But I would assume the mutation doesn't render the spike protein completely unrecognisable.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:47 pm

molto tricky

tom p
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by tom p » Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:30 pm

Specifically, the current conditions are that additional (observational) studies on pregnant women be run (no prospective studying them - just follow-up if a pregnant woman gets vaccinated) & prospective studies on children, starting with younger teens.

For the first time in history a regulator has given a proper authorisation to a covid-19 vaccine. And we made use of the guinea pigs in the countries misruled by blonde psychopaths who were able to unwittingly give us good data on anaphylaxis, to ensure that there will be greater safety around the moment of administration to protect those who may develop an anaphylactic reaction.

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:22 pm

Maybe tomp knows the difference between transmissibility and infectiousness?
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shpalman
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:14 pm

shpalman wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:30 pm
this is what the EU is paying for a dose of each vaccine

Oxford/AstraZeneca: €1.78
Johnson & Johnson: $8.50
Sanofi/GSK: €7.56
Pfizer/BioNTech: €12
CureVac: €10
Moderna: $18
this implies a cost of $38 for the Moderna vaccine and $20 for the Pfizer one, don't know if that's what the UK actually paid.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Millennie Al » Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:26 am

tom p wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:30 pm
For the first time in history a regulator has given a proper authorisation to a covid-19 vaccine. And we made use of the guinea pigs in the countries misruled by blonde psychopaths who were able to unwittingly give us good data on anaphylaxis, to ensure that there will be greater safety around the moment of administration to protect those who may develop an anaphylactic reaction.
That vaccine appears to have already been authorised in several other countries already, and the Moderna one has received authorisation from the FDA, so I assume you're implying these other authorisations are improper. What's wrong with them?
Covid-19 - Don't catch it: don't spread it.

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by monkey » Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:52 pm

Millennie Al wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:26 am
tom p wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:30 pm
For the first time in history a regulator has given a proper authorisation to a covid-19 vaccine. And we made use of the guinea pigs in the countries misruled by blonde psychopaths who were able to unwittingly give us good data on anaphylaxis, to ensure that there will be greater safety around the moment of administration to protect those who may develop an anaphylactic reaction.
That vaccine appears to have already been authorised in several other countries already, and the Moderna one has received authorisation from the FDA, so I assume you're implying these other authorisations are improper. What's wrong with them?
Those were emergency approvals, which aren't as stringent as the usual ones. I think that's a fair enough distinction, not improper, but not normal either.

But I've just had a look at the wiki page for the Pfizer vaccine, and they classify the EU one as expediated and only the Swiss approval as following the usual method - clicky

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Millennie Al » Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:12 am

monkey wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:52 pm
Millennie Al wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:26 am
tom p wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:30 pm
For the first time in history a regulator has given a proper authorisation to a covid-19 vaccine. And we made use of the guinea pigs in the countries misruled by blonde psychopaths who were able to unwittingly give us good data on anaphylaxis, to ensure that there will be greater safety around the moment of administration to protect those who may develop an anaphylactic reaction.
That vaccine appears to have already been authorised in several other countries already, and the Moderna one has received authorisation from the FDA, so I assume you're implying these other authorisations are improper. What's wrong with them?
Those were emergency approvals, which aren't as stringent as the usual ones. I think that's a fair enough distinction, not improper, but not normal either.

But I've just had a look at the wiki page for the Pfizer vaccine, and they classify the EU one as expediated and only the Swiss approval as following the usual method - clicky
The approval being referred to (the EU one) is "Conditional marketing authorisation" which, according to https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/glossary/c ... horisation is "The approval of a medicine that addresses unmet medical needs of patients on the basis of less comprehensive data than normally required.", so I was hoping to find out what exactly is the difference. Particularly from tom p who, from what other people have said on these forums, has some particular expertise in these matters.
Covid-19 - Don't catch it: don't spread it.

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:20 pm

Sinovac Biotech’s vaccine against COVID-19 is frankly a bit sh.t
the Chinese company had asked the Brazilian institute running tests to wait up to 15 days before publishing their full results
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:08 pm

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/statu ... 0113388549

Image

For once "CDC" might actually relate to disease control.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Chris Preston » Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:40 am

Not sure if you are able to read this https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation ... 163243c320

"Employers want the power to require workers to get the COVID-19 vaccine and stand them down from work without pay if they refuse, warning that bosses and employees will be left vulnerable if co-workers decline to be vaccinated."

I am not convinced that the Government will agree to this. However, I fully expect my University, given their risk averse attitude, is likely to set up a scheme where those who refuse to be vaccinated are required to work from home.
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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by headshot » Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:54 am

Chris Preston wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:40 am
Not sure if you are able to read this https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation ... 163243c320

"Employers want the power to require workers to get the COVID-19 vaccine and stand them down from work without pay if they refuse, warning that bosses and employees will be left vulnerable if co-workers decline to be vaccinated."

I am not convinced that the Government will agree to this. However, I fully expect my University, given their risk averse attitude, is likely to set up a scheme where those who refuse to be vaccinated are required to work from home.
Frau HS (severe asthmatic), who works in a Uni Library is straight up refusing to go back until vaccination is widespread. She can do everything from home.

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:54 am

How much herd immunity is enough?

[...]

In the pandemic’s early days, Dr. Fauci tended to cite the same 60 to 70 percent estimate that most experts did. About a month ago, he began saying “70, 75 percent” in television interviews. And last week, in an interview with CNBC News, he said “75, 80, 85 percent” and “75 to 80-plus percent.”

In a telephone interview the next day, Dr. Fauci acknowledged that he had slowly but deliberately been moving the goal posts. He is doing so, he said, partly based on new science, and partly on his gut feeling that the country is finally ready to hear what he really thinks.

Hard as it may be to hear, he said, he believes that it may take close to 90 percent immunity to bring the virus to a halt — almost as much as is needed to stop a measles outbreak.

Asked about Dr. Fauci’s conclusions, prominent epidemiologists said that he may be proven right. The early range of 60 to 70 percent was almost undoubtedly too low, they said, and the virus is becoming more transmissible, so it will take greater herd immunity to stop it.

Dr. Fauci said that weeks ago, he had hesitated to publicly raise his estimate because many Americans seemed unsure about vaccines, which they would need to accept almost universally for the country to achieve herd immunity.

Now that some polls are showing that many more Americans are ready, even eager, for vaccines, he said he felt he could deliver the tough message that the return to normal might take longer than anticipated.

“When polls said only about half of all Americans would take a vaccine, I was saying herd immunity would take 70 to 75 percent,” Dr. Fauci said. “Then, when newer surveys said 60 percent or more would take it, I thought, ‘I can nudge this up a bit,’ so I went to 80, 85.”

“We need to have some humility here,” he added. “We really don’t know what the real number is. I think the real range is somewhere between 70 to 90 percent. But, I’m not going to say 90 percent.”

Doing so might be discouraging to Americans, he said, because he is not sure there will be enough voluntary acceptance of vaccines to reach that goal. Although sentiments about vaccines in polls have bounced up and down this year, several current ones suggest that about 20 percent of Americans say they are unwilling to accept any vaccine.
If the threshold is 80 percent there is a real danger that anti antivaxxers will prevent the US reaching that threshold.

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Re: Developing the Covid-19 vaccine

Post by shpalman » Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:01 am

Chris Preston wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:40 am
Not sure if you are able to read this https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation ... 163243c320
I'm not able to.
Chris Preston wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:40 am
"Employers want the power to require workers to get the COVID-19 vaccine and stand them down from work without pay if they refuse, warning that bosses and employees will be left vulnerable if co-workers decline to be vaccinated."

I am not convinced that the Government will agree to this. However, I fully expect my University, given their risk averse attitude, is likely to set up a scheme where those who refuse to be vaccinated are required to work from home.
It will take until September 2021 at least before everyone vulnerable and/or over retirement age has been vaccinated, they can hardly require it before everyone non-vulnerable of working age has had their chance to have it.
molto tricky

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