Corona-woo

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by individualmember » Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:39 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:23 am
I've tried to Google the World Academy of Biomedical Sciences and Technologies. It doesn't appear to have a web site. All I get are a few mentions in other documents.

'Collaboration' with the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation (UNESCO) doesn't mean very much at all. To start with UNESCO doesn't work on bio-weapons or virology, more importantly any NGO can apply to become UNESCO accredited. Just fill in an application form. Being accredited isn't automatic, but its not that difficult.

The UN isn't subservient to the Chinese Communist Party. The World Health Organization is governed separately from the rest of the UN.

I'll let others weigh in on the science.
Thanks.
I’ve just spotted this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_A ... Technology
The World Academy of Science, Engineering and Technology or WASET is a predatory publisher of open access academic journals. The publisher has been listed as a "potential, possible, or probable" predatory publisher by Jeffrey Beall[1] and is listed as such by the Max Planck Society[2] and Stop Predatory Journals.[3]

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:50 am

individualmember wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:39 am
Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:23 am
I've tried to Google the World Academy of Biomedical Sciences and Technologies. It doesn't appear to have a web site. All I get are a few mentions in other documents.

'Collaboration' with the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation (UNESCO) doesn't mean very much at all. To start with UNESCO doesn't work on bio-weapons or virology, more importantly any NGO can apply to become UNESCO accredited. Just fill in an application form. Being accredited isn't automatic, but its not that difficult.

The UN isn't subservient to the Chinese Communist Party. The World Health Organization is governed separately from the rest of the UN.

I'll let others weigh in on the science.
Thanks.
I’ve just spotted this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_A ... Technology
The World Academy of Science, Engineering and Technology or WASET is a predatory publisher of open access academic journals. The publisher has been listed as a "potential, possible, or probable" predatory publisher by Jeffrey Beall[1] and is listed as such by the Max Planck Society[2] and Stop Predatory Journals.[3]
They may not be the same organization though.

Anyway, would you mind if I were to move these posts to the Covid woo thread?

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by individualmember » Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:56 am

Anyway, would you mind if I were to move these posts to the Covid woo thread?
Fine with me, I wasn’t sure where to post, it certainly has a smell off wooishness

Posts moved here

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Re: COVID-19

Post by Little waster » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:04 am

I assume it is this guy:-

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Giuseppe_Tritto2

His publication record appears to be a load of bollocks ... literally.

Certainly nothing that screams infectious disease or bioweapon specialist.

ETA: Mods can you shift this to the COVID woo thread?

Done
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Re: Corona-woo

Post by FlammableFlower » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:42 am


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Re: Corona-woo

Post by MartinDurkin » Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:02 pm

Many of the victims had followed advice resembling credible medical information - such as eating large amounts of garlic or ingesting large quantities of vitamins
Credible?

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by JQH » Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:04 pm

That's the number of hospital admissions: 800 dead.

Still bad though
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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Little waster » Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:58 pm

MartinDurkin wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:02 pm
Many of the victims had followed advice resembling credible medical information - such as eating large amounts of garlic or ingesting large quantities of vitamins
Credible?
Probably "plausible" may have been a better choice; that vitamins or vegetables could be beneficial for COVID doesn't immediately set off the bull-sh.t alarms the way a similar claim about healing crystals, astrology or homeopathy would.
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Re: Corona-woo

Post by jimbob » Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:58 pm

JQH wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:04 pm
That's the number of hospital admissions: 800 dead.

Still bad though
It's more interesting than that:

https://twitter.com/GidMK/status/129367 ... 06528?s=20

https://twitter.com/GidMK/status/129367 ... 95744?s=20
So the actual figures here are deaths from ONE cause from ONE country

In other words, a VAST underestimate

Also, not the main point of the research!
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Little waster » Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:07 am

I really should stop looking at realclearpolitics "news" aggregator, if keeping up with modern news media is like drinking from a fire-hose then RCP is the eqivalent of sipping from an open sewer.

From that Bastion of Reality-Denial, the Washington Examiner, Yale epidemiologist Harvey Risch continues to baffingly double-down on hydroxychloroquine.

Just so you can play along at home, courtesy of Orac a month earlier, a prescient quack bingo card from Mark Hoofnagle from back in April. Please feel free to tick off the excuses as Risch uses them.
Mark Hoofnagle, 06/04/20 wrote: The usual, and inevitable progression will be (same as vit C bugs) that the “miraculous” therapy:

1. Only works if given early (the missed window excuse)
2. Only works in ‘x’ clinical subset
3. Only works with higher dose (when a little fails, give more!)
4. Is immune to study by academics because they’re owned by pharma and there is no money to be made on generic
5. Doesn’t work to treat severe disease but merely progression of the disease (modified missed window)
6. Can’t be studied further and pound the table, yell efficacy is established and it’s a crime not to give it a try because it might save some lives we just don’t know which ones.
7. You would want it to be used on *your* loved one if your choice at a chance to save their life.

Basically, endless excuses followed by yelling and then emotional blackmail.

You know, like how scientists do. 🙄
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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:44 am

Little waster wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:07 am
I really should stop looking at realclearpolitics "news" aggregator, if keeping up with modern news media is like drinking from a fire-hose then RCP is the eqivalent of sipping from an open sewer.

From that Bastion of Reality-Denial, the Washington Examiner, Yale epidemiologist Harvey Risch continues to baffingly double-down on hydroxychloroquine.

Just so you can play along at home, courtesy of Orac a month earlier, a prescient quack bingo card from Mark Hoofnagle from back in April. Please feel free to tick off the excuses as Risch uses them.
Mark Hoofnagle, 06/04/20 wrote: The usual, and inevitable progression will be (same as vit C bugs) that the “miraculous” therapy:

1. Only works if given early (the missed window excuse)
2. Only works in ‘x’ clinical subset
3. Only works with higher dose (when a little fails, give more!)
4. Is immune to study by academics because they’re owned by pharma and there is no money to be made on generic
5. Doesn’t work to treat severe disease but merely progression of the disease (modified missed window)
6. Can’t be studied further and pound the table, yell efficacy is established and it’s a crime not to give it a try because it might save some lives we just don’t know which ones.
7. You would want it to be used on *your* loved one if your choice at a chance to save their life.

Basically, endless excuses followed by yelling and then emotional blackmail.

You know, like how scientists do. 🙄
Based upon his biography he is a cancer specialist who is at least 70.

So we can add to the bingo cards - person working outside their area of expertise and person who is over retirement age. (I don’t mean to be ageist but that demographic seems to be responsible for a lot of woo produced by people with PhDs).
https://medicine.yale.edu/ysm/profile/harvey_risch/

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by sTeamTraen » Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:59 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:44 am
(I don’t mean to be ageist but that demographic seems to be responsible for a lot of woo produced by people with PhDs).
One of the reasons I'm a little skeptical of some claims of X-ism --- and ageism is one such --- is that, unlike racism and sexism, there is often a degree of objective/statistical basis for at least making the observation, even if one should arguably not use it to pre-judge people.

Many 80-year-olds are still as sharp as a tack, but it's also quite likely that many will have suffered from cognitive decline, while still having their PhD and other emeritus titles, and we will see this in their intellectual output. This makes me uncomfortable for a number of reasons, not least that I am myself very probably about to enter the last quarter of my time on this planet (and occasionally find myself going off on, shall we say, a "rhetorical tangent" --- perhaps including this very reply? #meta), but I think we have to be able to talk about it.
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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Little waster » Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:29 pm

And the far-right echo chamber continue to circulate hydroxychloroquine woo amongst themselves with real world impacts.

Here we have Jon Militimore, one of the libertarian nutjobs from the Orwellian-named Foundation for Economic re-Education Koch-front celebrating the success of their fellow SPN astroturfers at the Citizen's Council for Health Freedom Koch-front at forcing Minnesota's Governor to lift the ban on the use of HCQ to treat COVID-19.

The false narrative he is shamelessly pushing is that Trump was some sort of visionary who called HCQ correctly at the start of the epidemic and now as the evidence rolls in medical experts are being convinced of its efficacy so a chorus of support has "emerged".

His example of a "chorus" consists of two (count them) interesting characters.

The first is the aforementioned Risch, out of practice and out of specialism, his support less "emerged" as much as was present all along as initially evidence-free speculation, which he went full-Emeritus on as continues to double-down regardless of what the evidence states.

The other is just as fun, Steven Hatfill, a Walter Mitty character, who in the past has claimed to be a captain of the Rhodesian SAS (a claim strongly denied by the regimental association), falsely-claimed to have a PhD from Rhodes University and three Master's degrees from Oxford University of dubious authenticity and is apparently raising funds for some sort of "science boat" to explore the Amazon :? .

His last foray into public health was to strongly assert with no scientific-basis, that Ebola was spread by as an aerosol.

He is currently affiliated with the Doctors for Disaster Preparedness a fringe "scientifc" group who's disaster preparedness seems to mostly consist of peddling conspiracy theories regarding AIDS denialism, AGW, the Kennedy assassinations and Obamacare

His other claim to fame is he was a person-of-interest in the 2001 Anthrax attack ... for over two years! :shock:

So yeah, strange lengths to go rather than just simply accept the fact that the Dear Leader is fallible ...
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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Little waster » Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:39 pm

It's telling that every single BTL comment on that piece, for as far as I could be bother to scroll, is a Trumpanzee hailing HCQ as the great breakthrough Trump claimed it would be, which the Dems have thwarted out of spite meaning the US deaths are all their fault, while apparently the rest of the World is handing them out like smarties, without any apparent controversy and to great success.

Not a single dissenting voice penetrates that completely evidence-free bubble.
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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Brightonian » Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:56 pm

Tweets about Didier Raoult (mostly in French) still pushing HCQ (saying it's a scandal it's not being used), and that the virus doesn't kill that many people anyway.

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by murmur » Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:29 pm

Courtesy of Steve Novella

Orac touched briefly on it in his recent post about horseshoe crabs...
It's so much more attractive inside the moral kiosk

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Little waster » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:58 pm

Out local free-paper posted a full page spread peddling various David Icke conspiracy, claims one of only two article they actually published.

https://simplebooklet.com/userFiles/a/4 ... .24.0.jpeg

The author is a Reiki Healer and Massage Therapist (natch) with a BSc in Science Communication ( :| ) .

I've written a complaint and partial rebuttal, not that I expect anything to come of it., still it's better to burn down the candle factory than complain about the dark or something.
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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Martin Y » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:24 pm

Little waster wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:58 pm
Out local free-paper posted a full page spread peddling various David Icke conspiracy, claims one of only two article they actually published.

https://simplebooklet.com/userFiles/a/4 ... .24.0.jpeg

The author is a Reiki Healer and Massage Therapist (natch) with a BSc in Science Communication ( :| ) .

I've written a complaint and partial rebuttal, not that I expect anything to come of it., still it's better to burn down the candle factory than complain about the dark or something.
I think if my touchpad device got a bit glitchy and started scrolling and clicking random items down my YouTube sidebar, it would probably not find David Icke lurking there. (More likely Chris Barrie's five favourite tanks or suchlike.) I also sense that when a Reiki Healers and Massage Therapist with David Icke in her suggestions sidebar affects not to have known who Icke is, it might be a hint that we should take her closing remark to heart: "You know the truth by how it feels".

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Little waster » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:28 am

Martin Y wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:24 pm
Little waster wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:58 pm
Out local free-paper posted a full page spread peddling various David Icke conspiracy, claims one of only two article they actually published.

https://simplebooklet.com/userFiles/a/4 ... .24.0.jpeg

The author is a Reiki Healer and Massage Therapist (natch) with a BSc in Science Communication ( :| ) .

I've written a complaint and partial rebuttal, not that I expect anything to come of it., still it's better to burn down the candle factory than complain about the dark or something.
I think if my touchpad device got a bit glitchy and started scrolling and clicking random items down my YouTube sidebar, it would probably not find David Icke lurking there. (More likely Chris Barrie's five favourite tanks or suchlike.) I also sense that when a Reiki Healers and Massage Therapist with David Icke in her suggestions sidebar affects not to have known who Icke is, it might be a hint that we should take her closing remark to heart: "You know the truth by how it feels".
The cui bono is truly baffling.

OK if you subscribe to the "Bill Gates is going to insert mind control nanites into us via the as-yet-non-existent COVID vaccine" belief or the "kill them all" gnome logic then perhaps things make sense (though it begs* the question why go through this elaborate charade rather than say putting it in the water or our food or in aspirin or whatever) but once you inch from full on bat-sh.t to merely unhinged you slam up against some hard truths.

If COVID is an elaborate hoax by Trump and Johnson to gain power then it isn't really working out very well for them. Without COVID, Trump would probably be coasting towards re-election on the back of Obama's economy and Johnson would be sitting pretty with an 80-seat majority handing out goodies to the Red Wall and blaming all issues on Remoaners and the EU, instead both of them are political dead-men walking and neither are likely to be still in post in the new year.

Similarly the couple billion Gilead or whoever may eventually make out of a successful COVID vaccine will be swamped by the multi-trillion dollar hit the global economy has taken and the resulting billions written off by the self-same Big Vaxx companies in lock-down opportunity costs.

As conspiracies go it is piss-poor.
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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Little waster » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:10 am

Martin Y wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:24 pm
More likely Chris Barrie's five favourite tanks.
As an aside I'm guessing:-

1. The Bob Semple
2. The Tsar Tank
3. The Landkreuzer P1000 Ratte
4. The A38 Valiant
5. The Baneblade
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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Martin Y » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:24 am

Little waster wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:10 am
Martin Y wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:24 pm
More likely Chris Barrie's five favourite tanks.
As an aside I'm guessing:-

1. The Bob Semple
2. The Tsar Tank
3. The Landkreuzer P1000 Ratte
4. The A38 Valiant
5. The Baneblade
You peeked.

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Little waster » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:21 pm

Got a reply. All typos are from the original. I'll respond properly when I get a moment but its a Gish Gallop of nonsense and whatabouttery. Get your fallacy bingo card ready.
Hi Little Waster - thanks for taking the time to express your opinions. Your opinions reflect everything that has been said to us via all platforms and Govt bodies.

I remember when this started we were told that we had to have a lock down to preserve the NHS as they could not cope. Nothing has been said
about the hollowing out of the NHS for the past decade making it so fragile but why look to the past when we are always pressed to focus on
the fearful now. Hospitals were erected and then --- not much. My pointis that nothing is happening now on the macro level. 4 months in face
masks suddenly were to be worn. But now we have lockdowns based on a potential spikes based on figures collated by our tech giants.

What is the end game here Stephen as our economy is slowly crashed? Suicide rates / depression / child poverty / addictions all will cause
more deaths both here and world wide than a nasty flu like bug. Whether the Tv will show you third world countries starving due to economic collapse and the many ramifications is up to the provider. I doubt we will get to see anything other than fear based control continuum.

As a doctor you will know that the immune system is very important.

Good food / water / environment / stress etc are all important factors. But the reality is that all above a terrible and are immune system is
actually under attack or at the very least well below par- When do we here and promote prevention and quality improvement?

We don't - why?

For an example - you do know that nearly all grains etc in the UK are sprayed with weedkiller prior to harvest? It's called a desiccant.So we
consume these toxins ( main ingredient is glyphosate).Bauer who now own Monsanto has set aside billions in claims in the US as it has now been
proved to be cancer causing. Bauer also make cancer drugs? Even though it causes cancer they still spray our crops Little Waster!

My point is that with a cancer rate heading to basically 1-2 ratio who's looking for answers when there is billions of $$$$ to be made.

Going back to the virus - what is the end game here? Injections with huge profits? Not for me! There appears no out for this mess accept
conformity. Will I have to wear a yellow star or similar if I fail to conform? This is where we are heading - it's fascism with a smile.

I simply don't trust our current system due to watching it's track record of my near 50 years on the planet - do you?

Steven Hawkings for me is probably the most notable scientist of his day and he spoke out about this said direction The problem for me is what if
science and scientists are in the wrong hands? Big Pharma get bigger for a reason - it's in their business model. Science said that eating weedkiller is safe?

I truly want a happy healthy society - something for me is very wrong about our direction. We may disagree but I promise we will have
much more in common then we do in differences. The system however promotes divide and concur.

So yes the article written by Fae is against the grain - for many good reason.
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Re: Corona-woo

Post by murmur » Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:44 am

Which wazzock wrote that pile of steaming piles of things?

You can tell them from this retired nurse (and the retired NHS payroll and audit bod across the table) that quite a lot of us had commented on what "austerity" had done to the NHS and the consequences of that on handling Covid, the diversion of clinical resources to dealing with the virus at the expense of everything else (I'm shy a couple of cardiology appointments). Even the press had noticed, 'cos I've read it in Teh Graun, although - quell surprisé - it was all about oncology, 'cos that's the only other thing which exists.

Oh, f.ck me, "immune system"! Do they even know how it works? My late Ma-in-Law/s immune system worked incredibly well, to the point that she developed rheumatoid arthritis...Excellent immune system there, working 20 to the dozen...
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