Corona-woo

Covid-19 discussion, bring your own statistics
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Gfamily
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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Gfamily » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:11 pm

MartinDurkin wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:08 pm
Trinucleus wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:45 pm
FredM wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:34 am
Piers Corbyn on Tw*tter:

“ THE CV PANDEMIC WAS SIMULATED OCT 2019 BY MEGA-RICH CONTROL FREAKS BILL GATES, GEORGE SOROS +CRONIES.
NOW IT'S FOR REAL.
THE AIM IS A WORLD POPULATION CULL ("PEOPLE cause #CO2 problem") by THEIR mass VACCINATION PLAN CONTAINING POISON.

*REFUSE*CV*VACCINE*”

This is the way the world ends, not with a bang but with idiocy.
He's spot on. This guy on Facebook says its caused by the G5 masts, and is being used along side vaccines to keep the population at manageable levels
Just had a newsletter from telecoms.com titled "Consensus on 6G is gradually forming".
I'm thinking of suggesting to the standards people that 6G should leave out the COVID-19.
Yes, they should look at alternative methods of managing demand.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by JQH » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:24 pm

Some idiot on Facebook posting about leaving cut up onions in every room in the house to absorb viruses or summat.

What's worse is that several people have posted take downs of the notion but others just double down on the woo.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by geejaytee » Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:39 pm

JQH wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:24 pm
Some idiot on Facebook posting about leaving cut up onions in every room in the house to absorb viruses or summat.

What's worse is that several people have posted take downs of the notion but others just double down on the woo.
So viruses are like paint fumes? https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/que ... ls-emitted

Has anyone told Chris Whitty yet?

quitethrilling
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Re: Corona-woo

Post by quitethrilling » Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:58 pm

So a friend of mine with a tendency towards conspiracy theories of the “anti-imperialist” type has told me that this is his new favourite blog: https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

An interesting variant on woo as this is suggesting that the whole thing is not actually happening at all - and seems to be trying to justify that with links to various bits of publicly available data.

The “About” page suggests a full bingo card of the usual bollocks (pro-Spiked/LM on Bosnia etc) but that’s unlikely to sway said friend ... any tips on a good debunk?

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Martin Y
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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Martin Y » Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:10 pm

quitethrilling wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:58 pm
… An interesting variant on woo as this is suggesting that the whole thing is not actually happening at all
I wonder what the motive might be. Make everyone on the planet run away and hide for 12 weeks so the Illuminati can have Disneyland all to themselves perhaps.

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by shpalman » Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:42 pm

Martin Y wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:10 pm
quitethrilling wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:58 pm
… An interesting variant on woo as this is suggesting that the whole thing is not actually happening at all
I wonder what the motive might be. Make everyone on the planet run away and hide for 12 weeks so the Illuminati can have Disneyland all to themselves perhaps.
"So that they can change the batteries in the pigeons"
molto tricky

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Little waster » Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:34 pm

I am assuming all the virus-denialists we used to attract over t’other place are currently baffled by this sudden worldwide outbreak of Vitamin C deficiency coming out of Central China and being spread by coughing.
Last edited by Little waster on Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Shamelessly recycling old jokes since 1952.

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Little waster » Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:34 pm

Double post
Shamelessly recycling old jokes since 1952.

quitethrilling
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Re: Corona-woo

Post by quitethrilling » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:53 am

Joking apart I think it’s important. Have just spent evening anti-self isolating in a pub running down beer stock by giving away free beer. Brilliant evening but possibly objectively bad for the wider population.

I suppose what I’m really asking is why I (or anyone else) shouldn’t trust that blog - despite its links and citations and “evidence” - over other experts. Especially when it might suit me to do so (i.e. because I like being in the pub with other freewheeling hedonists/selfish bastards (delete as appropriate) or more generally (because as for said friend it might fit with other politics)).

Put another way how can we discuss stuff and present evidence when it almost seems more like a question of worldviews that just don’t match up - how do you find common ground with people?

I realise this is (a) much broader than the original question and (b) incoherently expressed but
I refer you to the free beer

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by rockdoctor » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:25 pm

I just read a post on my local website which demonstrated that at least one person thinks that 'herd immunity' is something that an individual can acquire slowly and gradually over time. Had to be explained to this person that immunity is binary and depends on having had the illness (or vaccine). I really wonder how much public info is understood at all.
I have the impression that people are obsessively hand-washing without understanding why they should wash their hands. Wearing rubber gloves and thinking they are therefore safe (clue - it's not getting into you through the skin of your hands :roll: )

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Herainestold » Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:49 pm

I would say this is woo, but it makes you think about all the mysterious lung diseases circulating in the US.
The Coronavirus CONSPIRACY - Did COVID-19 Come from America? (by Nathan Rich)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Stupidosaurus » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:13 am

Two things:

So I've had a 'discussion' with a chap on Facebook who believes that Vitamin C hyperdoses (as proposed by Orthomolecular Medicine/Linus Pauling) are a surefire COVID-19 cure. I proposed that it was well-debunked nonsense spread by vitamin sellers and loons. The subsequent discussion went about as well as you'd expect, but it does appear from a bit of Web reading that the Chinese are doing some kind of clinical trial on this with results expected Septemberish. I have a feeling that the orthomolecular people have a foothold in China and have probably persuaded some party official that it's a Good Idea. Has anyone else heard anything of this? I did a fairly casual forum search but nothing popped up.

The other thing I've seen is a very popular FB post on 'Viral Load' from a "Dr Dhushyanthan Surendra Kumar of Thames Valley Air Ambulance". It's a theory that people given bigger initial infectious doses of virus develop worse symptoms and that infected people in close proximity will increase each other's viral load and make each other's symptoms worse. This is a fairly benign message in that it's encouraging people to isolate effectively, but I believe it's a misunderstanding of a study (something from Birmingham? Lancet? CBA looking for it) looking at post-infection COVID-19 viral load in people who are already ill and extrapolating backwards along the virus growth curve. I've spent a fair bit of time fitting logistic curves to in-vitro virus growth kinetic data lately and my view is that the inoculum size might advance or delay the timing of peak infection but (within reasonable limits) doesn't have any bearing on its intensity. Maybe that's different in a warm body with an immune system, so any alternative views welcome.

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by FredM » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:05 pm

Stupidosaurus wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:13 am
Two things:

So I've had a 'discussion' with a chap on Facebook who believes that Vitamin C hyperdoses (as proposed by Orthomolecular Medicine/Linus Pauling) are a surefire COVID-19 cure. I proposed that it was well-debunked nonsense spread by vitamin sellers and loons. The subsequent discussion went about as well as you'd expect, but it does appear from a bit of Web reading that the Chinese are doing some kind of clinical trial on this with results expected Septemberish. I have a feeling that the orthomolecular people have a foothold in China and have probably persuaded some party official that it's a Good Idea. Has anyone else heard anything of this? I did a fairly casual forum search but nothing popped up.

The other thing I've seen is a very popular FB post on 'Viral Load' from a "Dr Dhushyanthan Surendra Kumar of Thames Valley Air Ambulance". It's a theory that people given bigger initial infectious doses of virus develop worse symptoms and that infected people in close proximity will increase each other's viral load and make each other's symptoms worse. This is a fairly benign message in that it's encouraging people to isolate effectively, but I believe it's a misunderstanding of a study (something from Birmingham? Lancet? CBA looking for it) looking at post-infection COVID-19 viral load in people who are already ill and extrapolating backwards along the virus growth curve. I've spent a fair bit of time fitting logistic curves to in-vitro virus growth kinetic data lately and my view is that the inoculum size might advance or delay the timing of peak infection but (within reasonable limits) doesn't have any bearing on its intensity. Maybe that's different in a warm body with an immune system, so any alternative views welcome.
There’s a link to the proposed Vitamin C trial here. Quite a few red flags in the penultimate paragraph, especially “ In extreme conditions (athletes, skiers, art workers, military exercises), it can effectively prevent the common cold.“

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Holylol » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:15 pm


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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Woodchopper » Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:34 am

Iranian media reports that nearly 300 people have been killed and more than 1,000 sickened by ingesting methanol across the Islamic Republic, where drinking alcohol is banned and where those who do rely on bootleggers.

The poisonings come as fake remedies spread across social media in Iran, where people remain deeply suspicious of the government after it downplayed the crisis for days before it overwhelmed the country.

[...]

in messages forwarded and forwarded again, Iranian social media accounts falsely suggested that a British schoolteacher and others cured themselves of the coronavirus with whiskey and honey, based on a tabloid story from early February. Mixed with messages about the use of alcohol-based hand sanitizers, some wrongly believed drinking high-proof alcohol would kill the virus in their bodies.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... s-hundreds

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by jimbob » Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:54 pm

Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Opti » Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:51 pm

This may, or may not, be true.
90639772_10158024790288948_6188115766848520192_n.jpg
90639772_10158024790288948_6188115766848520192_n.jpg (44.27 KiB) Viewed 582 times
He cannot be killed by conventional weapons. True. He and Mrs Opti are wicked cool.

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Savikol15 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:02 pm

Coronavirus Origin Theories
Image
Source

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JQH
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Re: Corona-woo

Post by JQH » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:11 pm

Opti wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:51 pm
This may, or may not, be true.

90639772_10158024790288948_6188115766848520192_n.jpg
MrsH's nephew shared a post on FB claiming there is no virus and the disease is caused by 5G towers. My response may have been a bit abrupt.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

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FredM
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Re: Corona-woo

Post by FredM » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:18 pm

Master Jimmy Delingpole is currently trying to grift for a ‘friend’ who, he claims, has developed a ‘high-powered zinc formula’ which ‘disrupts the cytokine storm’. He’s morphing into Alex Jones.

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:20 pm

Savikol15 wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:02 pm
Coronavirus Origin Theories
Image
Source
I like this meme because the libertarian left is closest to accurate.

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by FredM » Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:58 pm


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Re: Corona-woo

Post by Little waster » Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:35 pm

FredM wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:58 pm
’kinell
Federal prosecutors allege train engineer Eduardo Moreno, 44, of San Pedro intended to hit the ship, saying he thought it was "suspicious" and did not believe "the ship is what they say it's for.'"
Well that's a train* of logic** that you don't want to think about too hard.


*No pun intended

**and I use that word quite incorrectly
Shamelessly recycling old jokes since 1952.

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by jimbob » Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:46 am

I just got sent this, which looks like a mutation of some of the earlier fake advice:

Johns Hopkins University has sent this detailed note on avoiding the contagion Covid 19.:

* The virus is not a living organism, but a protein molecule (DNA) covered by a protective layer of lipid (fat), which, when absorbed by the cells of the ocular, nasal or buccal mucosa, changes their genetic code. (mutation) and convert them into aggressor and multiplier cells.

* Since the virus is not a living organism but a protein molecule, it is not killed, but decays on its own. The disintegration time depends on the temperature, humidity and type of material where it lies.

* The virus is very fragile; the only thing that protects it is a thin outer layer of fat. That is why any soap or detergent is the best remedy, because the foam CUTS the FAT (that is why you have to rub so much: for 20 seconds or more, to make a lot of foam). By dissolving the fat layer, the protein molecule disperses and breaks down on its own

* HEAT melts fat; this is why it is so good to use water above 25 degrees Celsius for washing hands, clothes and everything. In addition, hot water makes more foam and that makes it even more useful

* Alcohol or any mixture with alcohol over 65% DISSOLVES ANY FAT, especially the external lipid layer of the virus

* Any mix with 1 part bleach and 5 parts water directly dissolves the protein, breaks it down from the inside.

* Oxygenated water helps long after soap, alcohol and chlorine, because peroxide dissolves the virus protein, but you have to use it pure and it hurts your skin.

* NO BACTERICIDE SERVES. The virus is not a living organism like bacteria; they cannot kill what is not alive with antibiotics, but quickly disintegrate its structure with everything said.

* NEVER shake used or unused clothing, sheets or cloth. While molecules are glued to a porous surface, it is very inert and disintegrates only between 3 hours (fabric and porous), 4 hours (copper, because it is naturally antiseptic; and wood, because it removes all the moisture and does not let it peel off and disintegrates). ), 24 hours (cardboard), 42 hours (metal) and 72 hours (plastic). But if you shake it or use a feather duster, the virus molecules float in the air for up to 3 hours, and can lodge in your nose.

* The virus molecules remain very stable in external cold, or artificial as air conditioners in houses and cars. They also need moisture to stay stable, and especially darkness. Therefore, dehumidified, dry, warm and bright environments will degrade it faster.

* UV LIGHT on any object that may contain it breaks down the virus protein. For example, to disinfect and reuse a mask is perfect. Be careful, it also breaks down collagen (which is protein) in the skin, eventually causing wrinkles and skin cancer. * The virus CANNOT go through healthy skin.

* Vinegar is NOT useful because it does not break down the protective layer of fat.

* NO SPIRITS, NOR VODKA, serve. The strongest vodka is 40% alcohol, and you need 65%.

* LISTERINE IF IT SERVES! It is 65% alcohol.

* The more confined the space, the more concentration of the virus there can be. The more open or naturally ventilated, the less.

* This is super said, but you have to wash your hands before and after touching mucosa, food, locks, knobs, switches, remote control, cell phone, watches, computers, desks, TV, etc. And when using the bathroom.

* You have to HUMIDIFY HANDS that are dry from so much washing, because the molecules can hide in the micro cracks. The thicker the moisturizer, the better.

* Also keep your NAILS SHORT so that the virus does not hide there.

Share as much as possible
To me, a lot of the advice is consistent with real advice, but there are bits that are somewhat iffy. For example, the "heat melts fat" and the 25-Celsius temperature, because then anyone with a fever (or indeed without) would be pretty much resistant to the virus.

I'm not too concerned with the bits that are padding - even though they show it didn't originate where it purports to.

This for example, which is pretty wrong, but doesn't really affect anything?
* The virus is not a living organism, but a protein molecule (DNA) covered by a protective layer of lipid (fat), which, when absorbed by the cells of the ocular, nasal or buccal mucosa, changes their genetic code. (mutation) and convert them into aggressor and multiplier cells.

Can anyone spot anything that is actually dangerous in this, so I can provide a better response?
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Corona-woo

Post by shpalman » Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:19 am

It's dangerous in that it's fancy sciencey words to make the rest of it seem more credible, while being wrong in all sorts of ways.
molto tricky

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