Havana syndrome

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Havana syndrome

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:05 pm

jimbob wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:58 pm
Martin Y wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:39 am
I must say, my gut feeling still has this case firmly filed on the same shelf as flying saucers. Mentions of some interesting physics which might enable it or hints that the basic technology to do something a bit like it exist somewhere or that the Russians are working on their own version seem remarkably familiar. Although I have a slightly higher expectation in this instance of an eventual revelation that changes my view, that's "higher" than a very, very low thing.
Likewise,

I guess diplomatic staff should only have heavily-vetted electronics, but issued phones or computers in their rooms (which are in their embassy and thus their national territory) would probably mess up any standing waves etc for focussed beams to work. To say nothing about how one would aim such devices at presumably someone's head.
This is the proven, public-knowledge tech: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEDUSA_(weapon)

They use it for crowd control so presumably you don't have to be that accurate.
He has the grace of a swan, the wisdom of an owl, and the eye of an eagle—ladies and gentlemen, this man is for the birds!

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dyqik
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Re: Havana syndrome

Post by dyqik » Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:06 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:05 pm
jimbob wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:58 pm
Martin Y wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:39 am
I must say, my gut feeling still has this case firmly filed on the same shelf as flying saucers. Mentions of some interesting physics which might enable it or hints that the basic technology to do something a bit like it exist somewhere or that the Russians are working on their own version seem remarkably familiar. Although I have a slightly higher expectation in this instance of an eventual revelation that changes my view, that's "higher" than a very, very low thing.
Likewise,

I guess diplomatic staff should only have heavily-vetted electronics, but issued phones or computers in their rooms (which are in their embassy and thus their national territory) would probably mess up any standing waves etc for focussed beams to work. To say nothing about how one would aim such devices at presumably someone's head.
This is the proven, public-knowledge tech: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEDUSA_(weapon)

They use it for crowd control so presumably you don't have to be that accurate.
Or secretive.

And this is a case where a tinfoil hat would actually be useful.

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jimbob
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Re: Havana syndrome

Post by jimbob » Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:08 am

dyqik wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:06 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:05 pm
jimbob wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:58 pm


Likewise,

I guess diplomatic staff should only have heavily-vetted electronics, but issued phones or computers in their rooms (which are in their embassy and thus their national territory) would probably mess up any standing waves etc for focussed beams to work. To say nothing about how one would aim such devices at presumably someone's head.
This is the proven, public-knowledge tech: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEDUSA_(weapon)

They use it for crowd control so presumably you don't have to be that accurate.
Or secretive.

And this is a case where a tinfoil hat would actually be useful.
The secretive bit is what I was thinking about. I suspect that arcing might even be visible in jewellery - let alone any effect on the electronics in the room.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Havana syndrome

Post by bmforre » Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:01 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:05 pm
This is the proven, public-knowledge tech: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEDUSA_(weapon)

They use it for crowd control so presumably you don't have to be that accurate.
Last year there were a number of issues with need for crowd control in the US. Why did they use the traditional methods if they had some MEDUSA ready to launch at Ferocious AntiFa?

And BTW i found absolutely nothing on tech in that link. Just marketing magic.

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basementer
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Re: Havana syndrome

Post by basementer » Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:11 pm

bmforre wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:01 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:05 pm
This is the proven, public-knowledge tech: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEDUSA_(weapon)

They use it for crowd control so presumably you don't have to be that accurate.
Last year there were a number of issues with need for crowd control in the US. Why did they use the traditional methods if they had some MEDUSA ready to launch at Ferocious AntiFa?

And BTW i found absolutely nothing on tech in that link. Just marketing magic.
Wikipedia's first link is a document which appears to record someone being paid $99,965 for a six month proof-of-concept study. The summary statement claims that it produced microwave auditory effects but not whether they were incapacitating or at what range.
From this we can conclude the scientific fact that someone was able to sign off projects costing up to $100,000.
Money is just a substitute for luck anyway. - Tom Siddell

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dyqik
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Re: Havana syndrome

Post by dyqik » Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:01 pm

basementer wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:11 pm
bmforre wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:01 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:05 pm
This is the proven, public-knowledge tech: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEDUSA_(weapon)

They use it for crowd control so presumably you don't have to be that accurate.
Last year there were a number of issues with need for crowd control in the US. Why did they use the traditional methods if they had some MEDUSA ready to launch at Ferocious AntiFa?

And BTW i found absolutely nothing on tech in that link. Just marketing magic.
Wikipedia's first link is a document which appears to record someone being paid $99,965 for a six month proof-of-concept study. The summary statement claims that it produced microwave auditory effects but not whether they were incapacitating or at what range.
From this we can conclude the scientific fact that someone was able to sign off projects costing up to $100,000.
Hmmm. *looks at my 3 (and counting) $100k R&D projects that got signed off as completed without even producing a substantial report*

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Woodchopper
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Re: Havana syndrome

Post by Woodchopper » Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:56 am

I'm procrastinating, so here's some pages from this book, which seem relevant.
Micro 1.jpg
Micro 1.jpg (367.68 KiB) Viewed 116 times
Micro 2.jpg
Micro 2.jpg (330.29 KiB) Viewed 116 times
Micro 3.jpg
Micro 3.jpg (404.87 KiB) Viewed 116 times

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jimbob
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Re: Havana syndrome

Post by jimbob » Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:25 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:56 am
I'm procrastinating, so here's some pages from this book, which seem relevant.

Micro 1.jpg
Micro 2.jpg
Micro 3.jpg
I can believe those are all possible. What I struggle to believe is that they could be targeted at someone *covertly* if they have normal personal electronics nearby. Especially if it is supposedly targeting them whilst they're in their own embassy.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Havana syndrome

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:59 pm

Thanks Woodchopper. I remember reading some better articles than that wiki page when I went through the report last year.

Like jimbob says, the general circumstances of the claimed use of the technology seems much more far fetched than its existence. Why target an embassy full of random staffers? (Unless there was a main target, and the others were collateral, or unless the US had done something similar first)

IIRC the official report doesn't make much mention of personal electronics. Do we know none were affected?
He has the grace of a swan, the wisdom of an owl, and the eye of an eagle—ladies and gentlemen, this man is for the birds!

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Woodchopper
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Re: Havana syndrome

Post by Woodchopper » Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:41 pm

jimbob wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:25 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:56 am
I'm procrastinating, so here's some pages from this book, which seem relevant.

Micro 1.jpg
Micro 2.jpg
Micro 3.jpg
I can believe those are all possible. What I struggle to believe is that they could be targeted at someone *covertly* if they have normal personal electronics nearby. Especially if it is supposedly targeting them whilst they're in their own embassy.
They don't appear to have experienced the phenomena in their embassy though. According to this summary, the first diplomats to be affected in Cuba experienced noise, headaches etc in their homes or in hotel rooms. That might make it more possible to install equipment nearby (especially in an authoritarian country like Cuba). Though of course the same would apply to other means like poisoning.

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