Scrutable

Herainestold wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:26 am

Does the measles vax have different efficacies in different population sub groups? ie. Pacific islanders vs Caucasians?

Why do you keep asking this?

Herainestold wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:26 am

Does the measles vax have different efficacies in different population sub groups? ie. Pacific islanders vs Caucasians?

Do you have any reason to suspect it would?

There are comparative studies from the US showing that Caucasian subjects have a somewhat weaker measles-specific antibody response after MMR vaccination than African-Americans have (as measured by mean and median neutralising antibody levels). I haven't found a similar study involving a Pacifica group.

Thanks for that.

Stephanie wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:05 am

Herainestold wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:26 am

Does the measles vax have different efficacies in different population sub groups? ie. Pacific islanders vs Caucasians?

Why do you keep asking this?

Cuz it looks like something else is going on here. I dont know what, but it could be a factor.

Herainestold wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:16 pm

Stephanie wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:05 am

Herainestold wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:26 am

Does the measles vax have different efficacies in different population sub groups? ie. Pacific islanders vs Caucasians?

Why do you keep asking this?

Cuz it looks like something else is going on here. I dont know what, but it could be a factor.

You don't know what, but you keep asking questions around a similar theme. Very interesting.

Measles appears to behave similarly in the Pacific Islands as everywhere else.
See this outbreak report from Fiji for one example. Outbreak was in an area of low vaccination coverage, and where data was available, none of the cases in this outbreak were fully vaccinated, and when supplementary immunisation activities were ramped up, the outbreak stopped.

I'm sure our new inevitably-antivax friend here will very soon come up with some evidence to support their interesting theories.

Samoa measles vaccine uptake rates haven't been great (WHO data)

Stephanie wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:30 pm

Herainestold wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:16 pm

Stephanie wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:05 am

Why do you keep asking this?

Cuz it looks like something else is going on here. I dont know what, but it could be a factor.

You don't know what, but you keep asking questions around a similar theme. Very interesting.

So what? Are you going to ban me?

Is that what you're hoping to achieve?

Stephanie wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:17 pm

Is that what you're hoping to achieve?

Why would I?

shits and giggles?

No one mentioned banning. Interesting though that you went there first. Hmm.

El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:37 pm

No one mentioned banning. Interesting though that you went there first. Hmm.

Innit...

Herainestold wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:16 pm

Stephanie wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:05 am

Herainestold wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:26 am

Does the measles vax have different efficacies in different population sub groups? ie. Pacific islanders vs Caucasians?

Why do you keep asking this?

Cuz it looks like something else is going on here. I dont know what, but it could be a factor.

Hi Herainestold,
just in case you're genuinely unable to understand that this is a population with very low levels of vaccination and they are suffering an outbreak of the disease that they are not vaccinated against, here's some background info:
There used to be a forum called bad science. Lots of us spent a lot of time arguing with antivax liars. Lots of the times, these antivax liars would claim to be just asking questions, when all they were really doing was trying to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt whilst pretending they weren't.
Your questions are very similar to this tactic. Especially as the references to the low vaccination rates should have already answered the big question as to why it was happening there.
I hope this explains things to you.

Of course, if you are some antivax person, then I hope you die fairly slowly and very painfully, especially if it's from a preventable disease.

... but if you're not an antivax person, Hi! Welcome to Scrutable! Great to see you!

lmao. great work, lads

tom p wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:19 pm

Herainestold wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:16 pm

Stephanie wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:05 am

Why do you keep asking this?

Cuz it looks like something else is going on here. I dont know what, but it could be a factor.

Hi Herainestold,
just in case you're genuinely unable to understand that this is a population with very low levels of vaccination and they are suffering an outbreak of the disease that they are not vaccinated against, here's some background info:
There used to be a forum called bad science. Lots of us spent a lot of time arguing with antivax liars. Lots of the times, these antivax liars would claim to be just asking questions, when all they were really doing was trying to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt whilst pretending they weren't.
Your questions are very similar to this tactic. Especially as the references to the low vaccination rates should have already answered the big question as to why it was happening there.
I hope this explains things to you.

Of course, if you are some antivax person, then I hope you die fairly slowly and very painfully, especially if it's from a preventable disease.

If I am indeed an antivax person then you should try and convince me, rather than hope that I die.
An yway thanks for the reply.
My inital thought was this might be an example of racism, a poor non white developing nation denied the resources that rich countries take for granted.
Is it purely a vaccination uptake issue or are there other strutural problems. If this had been a small white country wouldn't they have been supplied with the resources to vaccinate their population?
I am also wondering if there are other solutions more appropriate to the situation. Maybe vaccination doesn't work as well with non white people. as it was developed for white populations? Mr mikeh has supplied some information to suggest that vaccination actually works less well in white populations which I must admit i was surprised at. So maybe that hypothesis was wrong.
The appearance of white antivaxers RFK jr and Taylor Winterstein is a blatant interference in the health ecosystem of a vulnerable country.They should be held accountable.
Lets hope no more innocents die in this catastrophe.

That's a more sensible post. (Wasn't me who posted about the lesser immunity in caucasians, by the way).

The various links that have been posted thus far highlight the difficulties in physically getting vaccines to a place that is literally in the middle of the Pacific. The graph a few posts up show it is possible to get high uptake, but many factors can affect that, including mistrust (which in such an isolated population is easy to instill, as Fraudy-Wakefield and friends are showing, but hard to get rid of). Infrastructure such as cold chain, reliable electricity supply to maintain the cold chain, and numbers of healthcare staff are all other factors that aren't always so consistent year on year.

Geographical isolation (and surrounding factors) the main problem here, followed by embedded mistrust, I'd say.

mikeh wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:59 pm

That's a more sensible post. (Wasn't me who posted about the lesser immunity in caucasians, by the way).

right, it was basementer. Sorry.

I still think racism is a big part of this story.

Vulnerable populations need medical solutions that are appropriate for their own situations. There is another thread about how medicine has been for the benefit of men, not women. Its also for the benefit of white people, not non-whites. This has to change.

Herainestold wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:20 pm

I still think racism is a big part of this story.

Vulnerable populations need medical solutions that are appropriate for their own situations. There is another thread about how medicine has been for the benefit of men, not women. Its also for the benefit of white people, not non-whites. This has to change. [My emphasis]

What evidence do you have for racism being a factor in this outbreak? The low vaccination rates in the country seem to be partly logistical - as has been mentioned the islands are geographically remote - and partly because of vaccine-associated deaths of children in the population that have encouraged distrust in the vaccine. None of this has been helped by antivax misinformation that has exacerbated in recent years. Samoa may be physically remote but it is not isolated. There is a big diaspora in both NZ and Australia and it's thought the epidemic came from NZ. People will be seeing antivax sentiments online and with the unfortunate deaths in the last couple of years antivaxxers have targeted the country.

As to the response, New Zealand and Australia have both provided support, as has UNICEF. The outbreak was only declared about 3 weeks ago and the response has been quick and comprehensive. It has been culturally sensitive, ensuring that nurses speak Samoan and the local government appears to be in charge of coordination - this isn't a case of foreign people barging in and telling locals how they should do things.

So unless you have evidence for a racial aspect to either the causes of the outbreak or the response I suggest you move on.

The facilities have been provided. 110k doses of MMR.
Antivaxers don't visit us to be convinced. Nor do certain internet shitstirrers.

Gfamily wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:43 pm

Samoa measles vaccine uptake rates haven't been great (WHO data)
Samoa measles.jpg

*Narrows eyes* Don't make me start a Bad Graphs thread.

FFS.

Vertigowooyay wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:28 am

FFS.

What's wrong with that?
They are doing something useful.

Whilst propagating lies about the ‘forced MMR’ causing problems that measles *definitely* causes in an outbreak that clearly shows the dangers of not immunizing. That was the cause of the FFS. In the aftermath of this horrific outbreak, this will pop up on tons of antivax sites about how it’s vitamins that did it, not MMR.