Handed ness and Language

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What's your 'handedness' and with which ear did you hear the words more clearly?

Right Handed, heard the words in my Right Ear
4
31%
Right Handed, heard the words in my Left Ear
4
31%
Right Handed, couldn't make out words from either Ear
2
15%
Left Handed, heard the words in my Left Ear
0
No votes
Left Handed, heard the words in my Right Ear
1
8%
Left Handed, couldn't make out words from either Ear
0
No votes
No specific Handedness, heard the words in my Right Ear
0
No votes
No specific Handedness, heard the words in my Left Ear
0
No votes
No specific Handedness, couldn't make out words from either Ear
0
No votes
Eh, speak up?
2
15%
 
Total votes: 13

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Boustrophedon
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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by Boustrophedon » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:30 am

bagpuss wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:36 am
Tessa K wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:19 am
I once overheard a woman telling people she had special left-handed knitting needles. I wondered if she'd been conned into buying something that doesn't exist. Did any of the lefties here find it harder to learn to knit (assuming any of you do?)

I once taught a left-handed woman to crochet. That was interesting as I had to adjust my brain to her holding the hook in the other hand. The hook is the same though.
My mum who, bless her, was so determined not to force me into being right-handed that she probably made me more left-handed than I otherwise would have been, tried to teach me to knit left-handed. We both ended up terminally confused so she just taught me to knit right-handed instead, which I then picked up instantly and never looked back. I taught myself to crochet from a book and just automatically did it right-handed because it was easier to copy the pictures that way.

I have no idea wtf left-handed knitting needles might be like so I suspect she was either joking or had been conned. There are sometimes things which seem not to be handed but where a tweak does make them work better for left-handers - like fountain pen nibs - but I am really struggling to imagine anything that you could do to knitting needles that would be in any way helpful. I have googled and cannot find such things, although it's possible there might be some buried among all the "how to knit left-handed" pages.
It was a "thing" when I was doing my teaching diploma that it was wrong to teach a manual skill to someone facing you, because if they copy you as seen, they will be doing it as a mirror image. Generally I tried to teach side by side. Perhaps I should have tried left handers opposite and right handers next to me.

There was a poor lad at school who became convinced that left handed hammers were real. This may have been my fault. :-(

It is surprisingly difficult and expensive to purchase proper left handed scissors, no not those absolutely shite plastic handled monstrosities but proper all stainless steel scissors identical mirror images to the right handed ones.

We had a salesman trying to sell us ambidextrous scissors once. He could not be persuaded that there could be no such thing.

f.ck me they are still on sale. https://www.spectrumeducational.co.uk/p ... s-scissors. w.nkers.
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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by bagpuss » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:46 am

Boustrophedon wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:30 am
It was a "thing" when I was doing my teaching diploma that it was wrong to teach a manual skill to someone facing you, because if they copy you as seen, they will be doing it as a mirror image. Generally I tried to teach side by side. Perhaps I should have tried left handers opposite and right handers next to me.
That's how mum tried to teach me to knit but it doesn't actually work as you might think it would. You're looking at the back of the knitting and can't properly see what's being done by the hands of the knitter which are naturally more on the knitter's side of the work.

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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by Tessa K » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:04 am

bagpuss wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:36 am
Tessa K wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:19 am
I once overheard a woman telling people she had special left-handed knitting needles. I wondered if she'd been conned into buying something that doesn't exist. Did any of the lefties here find it harder to learn to knit (assuming any of you do?)

I once taught a left-handed woman to crochet. That was interesting as I had to adjust my brain to her holding the hook in the other hand. The hook is the same though.
My mum who, bless her, was so determined not to force me into being right-handed that she probably made me more left-handed than I otherwise would have been, tried to teach me to knit left-handed. We both ended up terminally confused so she just taught me to knit right-handed instead, which I then picked up instantly and never looked back. I taught myself to crochet from a book and just automatically did it right-handed because it was easier to copy the pictures that way.

I have no idea wtf left-handed knitting needles might be like so I suspect she was either joking or had been conned. There are sometimes things which seem not to be handed but where a tweak does make them work better for left-handers - like fountain pen nibs - but I am really struggling to imagine anything that you could do to knitting needles that would be in any way helpful. I have googled and cannot find such things, although it's possible there might be some buried among all the "how to knit left-handed" pages.
There is no way that something which is essentially a straight rod with a pointy end could be handed.

My brother is right handed in everything except cricket batting where he is a leftie.

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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by Gfamily » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:08 am

Tessa K wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:19 am
I once overheard a woman telling people she had special left-handed knitting needles. I wondered if she'd been conned into buying something that doesn't exist.
Was it almost 3 weeks ago that you heard her, or an integer number of years before? That might explain it.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by Tessa K » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:13 am

Gfamily wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:08 am
Tessa K wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:19 am
I once overheard a woman telling people she had special left-handed knitting needles. I wondered if she'd been conned into buying something that doesn't exist.
Was it almost 3 weeks ago that you heard her, or an integer number of years before? That might explain it.
Errr, ages ago, I can't remember when and I'm not sure why it stuck in my mind.

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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by bagpuss » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:39 am

Tessa K wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:04 am
bagpuss wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:36 am
Tessa K wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:19 am
I once overheard a woman telling people she had special left-handed knitting needles. I wondered if she'd been conned into buying something that doesn't exist. Did any of the lefties here find it harder to learn to knit (assuming any of you do?)

I once taught a left-handed woman to crochet. That was interesting as I had to adjust my brain to her holding the hook in the other hand. The hook is the same though.
My mum who, bless her, was so determined not to force me into being right-handed that she probably made me more left-handed than I otherwise would have been, tried to teach me to knit left-handed. We both ended up terminally confused so she just taught me to knit right-handed instead, which I then picked up instantly and never looked back. I taught myself to crochet from a book and just automatically did it right-handed because it was easier to copy the pictures that way.

I have no idea wtf left-handed knitting needles might be like so I suspect she was either joking or had been conned. There are sometimes things which seem not to be handed but where a tweak does make them work better for left-handers - like fountain pen nibs - but I am really struggling to imagine anything that you could do to knitting needles that would be in any way helpful. I have googled and cannot find such things, although it's possible there might be some buried among all the "how to knit left-handed" pages.
There is no way that something which is essentially a straight rod with a pointy end could be handed.

My brother is right handed in everything except cricket batting where he is a leftie.
I did consider the possibility that it might be like a fountain pen nib though - they're completely symmetrical so you might think there's nothing to change but because of the different way a left-hander uses one*, a left-handed one is actually curved. But try as I might, I could not imagine how a left-hander might knit differently that would make any change whatsoever to a knitting needle of any use. For one thing, you're constantly swapping the needles between hands anyway, so anything that you did change would have to work both ways round.


*pushing it across the page rather than pulling

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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by Tessa K » Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:09 pm

bagpuss wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:39 am
Tessa K wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:04 am
bagpuss wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:36 am


My mum who, bless her, was so determined not to force me into being right-handed that she probably made me more left-handed than I otherwise would have been, tried to teach me to knit left-handed. We both ended up terminally confused so she just taught me to knit right-handed instead, which I then picked up instantly and never looked back. I taught myself to crochet from a book and just automatically did it right-handed because it was easier to copy the pictures that way.

I have no idea wtf left-handed knitting needles might be like so I suspect she was either joking or had been conned. There are sometimes things which seem not to be handed but where a tweak does make them work better for left-handers - like fountain pen nibs - but I am really struggling to imagine anything that you could do to knitting needles that would be in any way helpful. I have googled and cannot find such things, although it's possible there might be some buried among all the "how to knit left-handed" pages.
There is no way that something which is essentially a straight rod with a pointy end could be handed.

My brother is right handed in everything except cricket batting where he is a leftie.
I did consider the possibility that it might be like a fountain pen nib though - they're completely symmetrical so you might think there's nothing to change but because of the different way a left-hander uses one*, a left-handed one is actually curved. But try as I might, I could not imagine how a left-hander might knit differently that would make any change whatsoever to a knitting needle of any use. For one thing, you're constantly swapping the needles between hands anyway, so anything that you did change would have to work both ways round.

*pushing it across the page rather than pulling
Exactly right. The needles would have to be labelled L and R.

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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by Aoui » Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:15 pm

I kept hearing the left first and then the right. At first I only heard the left and was surprised by then hearing the word in the right ear..possibly even missed the word in my right ear the first time because it came as such a surprise...but not sure. Later I'd hear the word in the left ear first, but not be able to retain that word because it was interrupted by the word in the right ear. I guess I'll have to steal my husbands computer headphones to see if I have the same thing happen then. I'm right handed but I was nearly school aged before I finally decided which hand I preferred. I do know that I have scarring on my left eardrum and not on my right, but that shouldn't make any difference at all. The words in my left ear were not as bright as the ones in my right ear, but again...I didn't start hearing the words in my right ear until nearly the end of the word in my left...

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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by Aoui » Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:56 pm

So I tried with better headphones and while not doing chores and found that I still heard the left side first and then was interrupted by the right side midway through, but I could understand the left ear if I concentrated on not paying attention to the right ear. I got the idea that if I concentrated on the right ear, I could have gotten those just fine, but what I couldn't do was switch back and forth. I also have adhd so attention issues may be involved here. I don't know how I'd have done if they'd actually played the words at the same time...

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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by Gfamily » Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:22 pm

Aoui wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:56 pm
So I tried with better headphones and while not doing chores and found that I still heard the left side first and then was interrupted by the right side midway through, but I could understand the left ear if I concentrated on not paying attention to the right ear. I got the idea that if I concentrated on the right ear, I could have gotten those just fine, but what I couldn't do was switch back and forth. I also have adhd so attention issues may be involved here. I don't know how I'd have done if they'd actually played the words at the same time...
Now, that is also interesting, because looking at the tracks, the sounds are 100% simultaneous, with neither starting earlier.
dichotic listening.PNG
dichotic listening.PNG (11.32 KiB) Viewed 295 times
So it seems that your left ear 'hears' first, but your right ear 'hears louder'. What happens if you put the headphones on backwards, is it the same, but with the 'other' words getting picked out?
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by Gfamily » Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:28 pm

Some interesting details in regard to the findings of dichotic listening
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichotic_listening
In the early 1960s, Doreen Kimura used dichotic listening tests to draw conclusions about lateral asymmetry of auditory processing in the brain. She demonstrated, for example, that healthy participants have a right-ear superiority for the reception of verbal stimuli, and left-ear superiority for the perception of melodies. From that study, and others studies using neurological patients with brain lesions, she concluded that there is a predominance of the left hemisphere for speech perception, and a predominance of the right hemisphere for melodic perception.

In the late 1960s and early 1970s, Donald Shankweiler and Michael Studdert-Kennedy of Haskins Laboratories used a dichotic listening technique (presenting different nonsense syllables) to demonstrate the dissociation of phonetic (speech) and auditory (nonspeech) perception by finding that phonetic structure devoid of meaning is an integral part of language and is typically processed in the left cerebral hemisphere A dichotic listening performance advantage for one ear is interpreted as indicating a processing advantage in the contralateral hemisphere. In another example, Sidtis (1981) found that healthy adults have a left-ear advantage on a dichotic pitch recognition experiment. He interpreted this result as indicating right-hemisphere dominance for pitch discrimination.
I'm more convinced that we're not a typical bunch of people :)
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by Aoui » Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:51 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:22 pm
So it seems that your left ear 'hears' first, but your right ear 'hears louder'. What happens if you put the headphones on backwards, is it the same, but with the 'other' words getting picked out?
I just tried it with the good headphones on backwards and I was completely confused. The right is louder and the left isn't as far ahead and maybe not ahead at all. So I put them on the right way again and they were still almost the same. How truly odd. It was so unbelievably different when I heard it earlier and I know it's not the headphones because I used two different types earlier. I wonder how I'd have experienced it if I had listened again and hadn't been shown that they are actually said at the same time. My husband listened and said they are said at exactly the same time. My brain seems to be a bit confuzzled....

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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by Gfamily » Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:01 pm

Aoui wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:51 pm
Gfamily wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:22 pm
So it seems that your left ear 'hears' first, but your right ear 'hears louder'. What happens if you put the headphones on backwards, is it the same, but with the 'other' words getting picked out?
I just tried it with the good headphones on backwards and I was completely confused. The right is louder and the left isn't as far ahead and maybe not ahead at all. So I put them on the right way again and they were still almost the same. How truly odd. It was so unbelievably different when I heard it earlier and I know it's not the headphones because I used two different types earlier. I wonder how I'd have experienced it if I had listened again and hadn't been shown that they are actually said at the same time. My husband listened and said they are said at exactly the same time. My brain seems to be a bit confuzzled....
Considering what the brain has to do, it's a wonder it does anything at all, really.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by Sciolus » Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:47 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:22 pm
So it seems that your left ear 'hears' first, but your right ear 'hears louder'.
It seems plausible that one side of the brain could be optimised for fast "there's a noise -- is it dangerous?" processing and the other side optimised for the necessarily slower "what were the words being spoken" processing. There seems to be some evidence that this sort of division of labour in a highly energy-demanding organ (the brain) is the underlying reason for handedness.

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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by jimbob » Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:18 pm

In normal life I can hear sounds and even words with my left ear, but it takes so much more processing effort that I actually will hold a phone to my right ear by my left hand and take notes with my right hand if I need to.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by Millennie Al » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:29 am

Boustrophedon wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:30 am
We had a salesman trying to sell us ambidextrous scissors once. He could not be persuaded that there could be no such thing.
Theoretically, there can be amidextrous scissors, but I don't know if you can buy them. The Wikipedia article on scissors has a section which mentions one type: Scissors#Right-handed_and_left-handed_scissors, and the other that I can think of is a bit less convenient and relies on how some scissors pivot around a but and bolt. In pinciple, it would be possible to make a pair such that you could undo the nut and bolt and reassemble the two parts the opposite way around. This would then cut using the opposite edges of the blades, so would require very careful design to make it cut effectively.
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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by Boustrophedon » Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:24 am

Millennie Al wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:29 am
Boustrophedon wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:30 am
We had a salesman trying to sell us ambidextrous scissors once. He could not be persuaded that there could be no such thing.
Theoretically, there can be amidextrous scissors, but I don't know if you can buy them. The Wikipedia article on scissors has a section which mentions one type: Scissors#Right-handed_and_left-handed_scissors, and the other that I can think of is a bit less convenient and relies on how some scissors pivot around a but and bolt. In pinciple, it would be possible to make a pair such that you could undo the nut and bolt and reassemble the two parts the opposite way around. This would then cut using the opposite edges of the blades, so would require very careful design to make it cut effectively.
Like this? https://www.collectorsweekly.com/storie ... sors--1881
Image
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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by Tessa K » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:12 am

Gfamily wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:28 pm
Some interesting details in regard to the findings of dichotic listening
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichotic_listening
In the early 1960s, Doreen Kimura used dichotic listening tests to draw conclusions about lateral asymmetry of auditory processing in the brain. She demonstrated, for example, that healthy participants have a right-ear superiority for the reception of verbal stimuli, and left-ear superiority for the perception of melodies. From that study, and others studies using neurological patients with brain lesions, she concluded that there is a predominance of the left hemisphere for speech perception, and a predominance of the right hemisphere for melodic perception.

In the late 1960s and early 1970s, Donald Shankweiler and Michael Studdert-Kennedy of Haskins Laboratories used a dichotic listening technique (presenting different nonsense syllables) to demonstrate the dissociation of phonetic (speech) and auditory (nonspeech) perception by finding that phonetic structure devoid of meaning is an integral part of language and is typically processed in the left cerebral hemisphere A dichotic listening performance advantage for one ear is interpreted as indicating a processing advantage in the contralateral hemisphere. In another example, Sidtis (1981) found that healthy adults have a left-ear advantage on a dichotic pitch recognition experiment. He interpreted this result as indicating right-hemisphere dominance for pitch discrimination.
I'm more convinced that we're not a typical bunch of people :)

Did you ever think we were? :lol:

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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by Millennie Al » Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:14 am

Boustrophedon wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:24 am
Millennie Al wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:29 am
In pinciple, it would be possible to make a pair such that you could undo the nut and bolt and reassemble the two parts the opposite way around. This would then cut using the opposite edges of the blades, so would require very careful design to make it cut effectively.
Like this? https://www.collectorsweekly.com/storie ... sors--1881
Image
Actually, no. That's a third way that I hadn't thought of. It cuts keeping the same faces of the blades touching. What I was thinking of would swap faces as it swapped handedness, so what used to be the outside of the scissors becomes the inside.
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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by Boustrophedon » Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:59 am

Millennie Al wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:14 am


Actually, no. That's a third way that I hadn't thought of. It cuts keeping the same faces of the blades touching. What I was thinking of would swap faces as it swapped handedness, so what used to be the outside of the scissors becomes the inside.
I don't know why but I really want a pair of those.
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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by jimbob » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:15 am

My Victorinox scissors on my Swiss army knife are pretty good with either hand. Which is useful for me as I cut my fingernails with it.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by Martin Y » Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:47 am

jimbob wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:15 am
My Victorinox scissors on my Swiss army knife are pretty good with either hand. Which is useful for me as I cut my fingernails with it.
Likewise. I do find them less controlled cutting the right hand nails left-to-right than the mirror image on the other hand (though it's hard to be sure quite why). It occurred to me I could hold my right hand palm up and bend my fingers then I could cut them the opposite way across but that seems to be more awkward still.

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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by jimbob » Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:45 am

Martin Y wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:47 am

Likewise. I do find them less controlled cutting the right hand nails left-to-right than the mirror image on the other hand (though it's hard to be sure quite why). It occurred to me I could hold my right hand palm up and bend my fingers then I could cut them the opposite way across but that seems to be more awkward still.
Ah, I don't get that. Do you use your thumb to operate the scissors? Are you right-handed, and that is the reason? Or are you not pressing vertically, but somewhat off and pushing the blades apart - or whatever it is that makes using right-handed scissors bad in one's left hand?
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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by Martin Y » Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:06 pm

I'm using my thumb and pressing in the direction to bring the blades together. On reflection, I think it may be that cutting right-to-left is easier because I can press the lower blade against my fingertip as a guide. That's possibly all it is.

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Re: Handed ness and Language

Post by jimbob » Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:22 am

jimbob wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:18 pm
In normal life I can hear sounds and even words with my left ear, but it takes so much more processing effort that I actually will hold a phone to my right ear by my left hand and take notes with my right hand if I need to.
It was easier to process the right ear words but I made out both... I just takes a lot more effort to do that with the left ear

I am right handed. And in this pretty standard, it seems.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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