Wet Petrol

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tom p
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by tom p » Wed May 25, 2022 12:02 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 11:09 pm
Yeah but what about all the pollution from disposing of the old ones and manufacturing the new ones eh eh?

(AIUI there's actually a decent argument for scrapping fossil cars early, but I don't know if it applies to lawnmowers.)
There was an interesting radio programme about that (best thing since sliced bread), and it concluded that you would need to drive a shitload of miles for lots of years to make it worthwhile scrapping a working old car for a new electric one. There's about 2x the embedded carbon in a new electric compared to a new petrol car (12 tonnes vs 6, if memory serves), and it's equivalent to a year's worth of all your emissions, so it seems that right now it's not worth doing.
If the grid was more decarbonised and/or the manufacturing plants were as decarbonised as possible, then it might be a good idea

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dyqik
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by dyqik » Wed May 25, 2022 5:30 pm

tom p wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 12:02 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 11:09 pm
Yeah but what about all the pollution from disposing of the old ones and manufacturing the new ones eh eh?

(AIUI there's actually a decent argument for scrapping fossil cars early, but I don't know if it applies to lawnmowers.)
There was an interesting radio programme about that (best thing since sliced bread), and it concluded that you would need to drive a shitload of miles for lots of years to make it worthwhile scrapping a working old car for a new electric one. There's about 2x the embedded carbon in a new electric compared to a new petrol car (12 tonnes vs 6, if memory serves), and it's equivalent to a year's worth of all your emissions, so it seems that right now it's not worth doing.
If the grid was more decarbonised and/or the manufacturing plants were as decarbonised as possible, then it might be a good idea
For power tools with replaceable and transferrable batteries, this should be better - you only need enough batteries for your snowblower to be able to run the lawn mower, strimmer, chainsaw, mulcher, etc., rather than having batteries built in to each car.

Add in the short life and high emissions of individual 2-stroke and very small carburetted 4-stroke engines, and it becomes more obvious.

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Boustrophedon
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Boustrophedon » Wed May 25, 2022 7:12 pm

I have spent more on replacement Li batteries for two electric drills than I have ever spent on petrol for my lawnmowers, hedge clippers and chainsaw.

And you expect me to even consider throwing these away to buy electric ones?

No.
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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed May 25, 2022 8:54 pm

tom p wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 12:02 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 11:09 pm
Yeah but what about all the pollution from disposing of the old ones and manufacturing the new ones eh eh?

(AIUI there's actually a decent argument for scrapping fossil cars early, but I don't know if it applies to lawnmowers.)
There was an interesting radio programme about that (best thing since sliced bread), and it concluded that you would need to drive a shitload of miles for lots of years to make it worthwhile scrapping a working old car for a new electric one. There's about 2x the embedded carbon in a new electric compared to a new petrol car (12 tonnes vs 6, if memory serves), and it's equivalent to a year's worth of all your emissions, so it seems that right now it's not worth doing.
If the grid was more decarbonised and/or the manufacturing plants were as decarbonised as possible, then it might be a good idea
Thanks for this - had a listen earlier.

For cars, they reckon scrapping a working car to buy a new BEV doesn't pay off carbon-wise till you've gone 37,000 miles (5-6 years of average driving). If you're buying new anyway, choosing a BEV over ICE pays off after 16,000 miles (so about 2.6 years). (For it to pay off financially they reckon 300k miles and 80k miles respectively - the market has yet to catch up with the relative externalities here).

Which isn't as bad as I thought. I don't really know how it would compare for power tools in qualitative terms, but seeing as most people are using each power tool for fewer hours a day than a typical car would be driven, and their lower power consumption, I'd suspect it'd take even longer to be worthwhile scrapping working tools to buy electric.

So maintaining old tools well and running them as long as you can is probably fair enough. I support Don and his W.A.P. (wet alcoholic petrol).
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nekomatic
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by nekomatic » Wed May 25, 2022 9:20 pm

What’s your budget? Looks to me like you can pick up a separating funnel off eBay for twenty quid or so if you look hard. It might not be as big as you want but you can do the separation in batches.

Or you could use some kind of carboy, like a camping water carrier, and angle it so the tap is at the lowest point.

Or any vessel with corners, that you can angle so one corner is at the lowest point, then dip a thin tube in and suck the water out from that corner.

For final drying I wouldn’t bother with a column, just mix with the drying agent then filter with a funnel and filter paper.
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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed May 25, 2022 9:43 pm

At any rate, I don't think you should pour it down the drain if it potentially contains toxins. There's a real risk it'll end up in a river.

I'd check if the council take old fuel at the dump, or else a friendly local garage might be able to help.
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Boustrophedon
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Boustrophedon » Wed May 25, 2022 10:39 pm

Thanks guys, I have bought an auxiliary petrol tank, a plastic tank that hangs up with a valved outlet on the bottom. Should do the trick nicely.

I shall take care how I dispose of the residuum.*

* I love 'uu' words, can you think of any more?
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Gfamily
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Gfamily » Wed May 25, 2022 11:15 pm

Boustrophedon wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 10:39 pm
* I love 'uu' words, can you think of any more?
How about muumuu
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monkey
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by monkey » Wed May 25, 2022 11:24 pm

Continuum, or even better, supercontinuum.

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed May 25, 2022 11:33 pm

You can also have a duumvirate, or a two-in-the-Republic romp as Roman newspapers liked to call it.
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Millennie Al
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Millennie Al » Thu May 26, 2022 12:23 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 8:54 pm
For cars, they reckon scrapping a working car to buy a new BEV doesn't pay off carbon-wise till you've gone 37,000 miles (5-6 years of average driving). If you're buying new anyway, choosing a BEV over ICE pays off after 16,000 miles (so about 2.6 years). (For it to pay off financially they reckon 300k miles and 80k miles respectively - the market has yet to catch up with the relative externalities here).
How can the externalities not be accounted for given that there are huge taxes on petrol and diesel?

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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Millennie Al » Thu May 26, 2022 12:25 am

Boustrophedon wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 10:39 pm
I shall take care how I dispose of the residuum.*

* I love 'uu' words, can you think of any more?
Continuum, vacuum, and. of course, muumuu, which is twice as good.

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Martin_B
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Martin_B » Thu May 26, 2022 1:00 am

Millennie Al wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 12:25 am
... and. of course, muumuu, which is twice as good.
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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu May 26, 2022 8:44 am

Millennie Al wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 12:23 am
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 8:54 pm
For cars, they reckon scrapping a working car to buy a new BEV doesn't pay off carbon-wise till you've gone 37,000 miles (5-6 years of average driving). If you're buying new anyway, choosing a BEV over ICE pays off after 16,000 miles (so about 2.6 years). (For it to pay off financially they reckon 300k miles and 80k miles respectively - the market has yet to catch up with the relative externalities here).
How can the externalities not be accounted for given that there are huge taxes on petrol and diesel?
They're clearly not huge enough. If carbon externalities were correctly priced a BEV would pay off financially the moment it pays off carbon-wise, not 64k/263k miles later. And note that EVs will pay off carbon-wise even quicker as the grid decarbonises.
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Pishwish » Mon May 30, 2022 8:12 pm

Boustrophedon wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 7:12 pm
I have spent more on replacement Li batteries for two electric drills than I have ever spent on petrol for my lawnmowers, hedge clippers and chainsaw.

And you expect me to even consider throwing these away to buy electric ones?

No.
I bought a qualcast (really a homebase brand) cordless chainsaw a couple of years ago and never used it till this week. Although I am using it to cut thicker trunks (about 2 foot diameter) than the instruction manual suggests, a single charge gives a relatively short operating time, about enough for 2 or 3 cuts. The 36v battery is about the size of a brick. Now I am sure that a cheap petrol chainsaw would have its drawbacks too, but I doubt it would be that impractical.

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