Wet Petrol

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Boustrophedon
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Wet Petrol

Post by Boustrophedon » Fri May 20, 2022 4:10 pm

Why is my petrol wet I hear you ask? Because I am going to add water to it to separate the ethanol from the petrol.

So I need something to perform the function of a separating funnel, but bigger and cheaper and not made of glass; can anyone suggest something?

I then need to make sure that there is no water in the petrol, so I need a way of doing that, like a column full of anhydrous magnesium sulphate or summat; is this really necessary? Any suggestions?

Why am I doing all this? Because E10 petrol is right buggering up my garden machinery, corroding the carbs all to buggery. So I need decent petrol without ethanol, but not gallons.

I am aware that 'garden equipment petrol' is available but at £30/gallon I think not.
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Grumble
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Grumble » Fri May 20, 2022 4:17 pm

Sounds like a good argument for electric garden machinery
A bit churlish

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Gfamily
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Gfamily » Fri May 20, 2022 4:17 pm

Boustrophedon wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 4:10 pm
Why is my petrol wet I hear you ask? Because I am going to add water to it to separate the ethanol from the petrol.

So I need something to perform the function of a separating funnel, but bigger and cheaper and not made of glass; can anyone suggest something?

I then need to make sure that there is no water in the petrol, so I need a way of doing that, like a column full of anhydrous magnesium sulphate or summat; is this really necessary? Any suggestions?

Why am I doing all this? Because E10 petrol is right buggering up my garden machinery, corroding the carbs all to buggery. So I need decent petrol without ethanol, but not gallons.

I am aware that 'garden equipment petrol' is available but at £30/gallon I think not.
An article from March '21 suggests that Esso still sell ethanol free petrol if you can get Esso Synergy Supreme+ Unleaded 97 or Synergy Supreme+ 99
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
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Gfamily
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Gfamily » Fri May 20, 2022 4:37 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 4:17 pm
An article from March '21 suggests that Esso still sell ethanol free petrol if you can get Esso Synergy Supreme+ Unleaded 97 or Synergy Supreme+ 99
Footnote
Esso wrote:Although our pumps have E5 labels on them, our Synergy Supreme+ 99 is actually ethanol free (except, due to technical supply reasons, in Devon, Cornwall, North Wales, North England and Scotland). Legislation requires us to place these E5 labels on pumps that dispense unleaded petrol with ‘up to 5% ethanol’, including those that contain no ethanol, which is why we display them on our Synergy Supreme+ 99 pumps.
https://www.esso.co.uk/en-gb/fuels/petrol
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

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dyqik
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by dyqik » Fri May 20, 2022 4:54 pm

Grumble wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 4:17 pm
Sounds like a good argument for electric garden machinery
Yep.

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Boustrophedon
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Boustrophedon » Fri May 20, 2022 4:56 pm

dyqik wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 4:54 pm
Grumble wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 4:17 pm
Sounds like a good argument for electric garden machinery
Yep.
I don't have electric garden machinery.
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leave 'em laughing when you go.

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri May 20, 2022 8:31 pm

Have you got plans for the ethanol? ;)
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Boustrophedon
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Boustrophedon » Fri May 20, 2022 8:39 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 8:31 pm
Have you got plans for the ethanol? ;)
Not really, because by the time I extract it, it will be diluted with water and contaminated with petrol. Can't drink it, can't burn it. Pour it away seems only option.
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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri May 20, 2022 9:32 pm

Fair dos, drinking and burning were my only ideas too.

Presumably distilling it back to a higher concentration would be a nono?
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Grumble
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Grumble » Fri May 20, 2022 11:05 pm

Boustrophedon wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 8:39 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 8:31 pm
Have you got plans for the ethanol? ;)
Not really, because by the time I extract it, it will be diluted with water and contaminated with petrol. Can't drink it, can't burn it. Pour it away seems only option.
Seems unnecessarily polluting. A good argument for going electric.
A bit churlish

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri May 20, 2022 11:09 pm

Yeah but what about all the pollution from disposing of the old ones and manufacturing the new ones eh eh?

(AIUI there's actually a decent argument for scrapping fossil cars early, but I don't know if it applies to lawnmowers.)
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Boustrophedon
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Boustrophedon » Sat May 21, 2022 10:19 am

Grumble wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 11:05 pm
Boustrophedon wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 8:39 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 8:31 pm
Have you got plans for the ethanol? ;)
Not really, because by the time I extract it, it will be diluted with water and contaminated with petrol. Can't drink it, can't burn it. Pour it away seems only option.
Seems unnecessarily polluting. A good argument for going electric.
Getting tiresome now.
Survival is underrated.
leave 'em laughing when you go.

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shpalman
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by shpalman » Sat May 21, 2022 10:40 am

I'm screwed, or rather my MX-5's engine is screwed, if Italy switches to E10. It's currently still at E5 and when I went to Slovakia, which is E10, I avoided filling up there at all.
molto tricky

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Martin Y
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Martin Y » Sat May 21, 2022 11:27 am

shpalman wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 10:40 am
I'm screwed, or rather my MX-5's engine is screwed, if Italy switches to E10. It's currently still at E5 and when I went to Slovakia, which is E10, I avoided filling up there at all.
Owners in the US have been driving MX-5s (well, Miatas) on E10 for years without issue. Also super unleaded, in the UK at least, is remaining E5. I use that in my older Mk1 MX-5 since I supercharged it and it needs the high octane stuff.

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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Gfamily » Sat May 21, 2022 11:54 am

Our camper van is based on a Japanese import '96 model Toyota MPV, and we've not been able to get a definitive view on whether E10 is OK or not.
So far we avoid E10 where we can, but if that's the only option we'll take it.
France moved to E10 before us, where it's done most of its driving and no signs of a problem so far.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

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dyqik
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by dyqik » Sat May 21, 2022 1:32 pm

Martin Y wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 11:27 am
shpalman wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 10:40 am
I'm screwed, or rather my MX-5's engine is screwed, if Italy switches to E10. It's currently still at E5 and when I went to Slovakia, which is E10, I avoided filling up there at all.
Owners in the US have been driving MX-5s (well, Miatas) on E10 for years without issue. Also super unleaded, in the UK at least, is remaining E5. I use that in my older Mk1 MX-5 since I supercharged it and it needs the high octane stuff.
US and EU spec cars are often built a bit different though - different regulations (particularly around emissions, which are different in different states), different fuels, different ambient temps.

Audis over here have red rear turn signals, for example. Although amber is entirely legal (and what's on my Toyota and Subaru)

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Martin Y
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Martin Y » Sat May 21, 2022 4:13 pm

dyqik wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 1:32 pm
US and EU spec cars are often built a bit different though - different regulations (particularly around emissions, which are different in different states), different fuels, different ambient temps...
True, but people in the UK MX-5 owners club have tried in vain to find any difference in the fuel systems of American, European and Japanese models. All the same part numbers etc. Only the advice varies between regions.

I'm reminded that the original model has a cambelt rated for 60,000 miles everywhere in the world except California where it's rated for 100,000 miles. It's not a different belt; CA just had a law saying cambelts ought to last 100,000 miles so Mazda said "Okay, it will".

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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by shpalman » Sat May 21, 2022 4:41 pm

Martin Y wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 4:13 pm
dyqik wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 1:32 pm
US and EU spec cars are often built a bit different though - different regulations (particularly around emissions, which are different in different states), different fuels, different ambient temps...
True, but people in the UK MX-5 owners club have tried in vain to find any difference in the fuel systems of American, European and Japanese models. All the same part numbers etc. Only the advice varies between regions.

I'm reminded that the original model has a cambelt rated for 60,000 miles everywhere in the world except California where it's rated for 100,000 miles. It's not a different belt; CA just had a law saying cambelts ought to last 100,000 miles so Mazda said "Okay, it will".
All MX-5s are built in Hiroshima, there isn't any local US or European production, so it makes sense that there isn't much regional variation.

The 1998 engines in the NB, which I suppose aren't that different from the original NA engines, aren't officially certified for E10; the 2005 NC engines definitely are.
molto tricky

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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by IvanV » Tue May 24, 2022 3:04 pm

Lawn mowers are an example of Non-Road Mobile Machinery (NRMM), and subject to pretty recent and specific NRMM regulations and emission standards. Oh, the delightful things I get to research with my job....

NRMM are a substantial source of pollution. They tend to have more primitive engines than road vehicles, and not be subject to the same intensity of inspection and maintenance regimes. So they tend to run badly and chuck out disproportionate amounts of nasty pollution. Obviously the biggest problem is with construction sites and industrial sites. So you may have increasingly noticed temporary electricity substations being constructed even in places like footways and roadways next to large construction sites, so that mechanical activities on those sites can be powered by mains electricity, rather than sooty diesel generators and liquid fuelled power tools.

Practical electric lawnmowers for anything other than handkerchief-sized and putting-green smooth lawns were little available when I got my petrol mower 20-odd years ago. Which has been very reliable. Maybe because I change its oil and spark plug and clean its filter from time to time. But it seems that electric mowers have moved on a long way since then. It would make environmental sense to move on to an electric one in due course.

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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by dyqik » Tue May 24, 2022 5:10 pm

The big cost of electric mowers is in the batteries. But you can use the same batteries across multiple pieces of garden equipment (leaf blower, strimmer, mulcher, pole saw, chain saw), and other equipment (pressure washer, car vacuum, snow-blower), so if you pick a fairly comprehensive and reliable system, you can add stuff as you need to for less than the cost of petrol powered equipment, as you don't need to buy the batteries with every piece.

I'm looking at an electric mower for the next time our petrol mower refuses to start reliably, and will add an electric snow-blower that shares the same batteries before winter, so we aren't stuck with the ancient and extremely noisy and rusty snowblower for another winter.

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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed May 25, 2022 8:38 am

Electric building sites sound nice. Must be quieter by comparison.
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Grumble
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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Grumble » Wed May 25, 2022 9:21 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 8:38 am
Electric building sites sound nice. Must be quieter by comparison.
https://youtu.be/OJtzuZIO-88

Hope this link goes to the right point in the video, if not the relevant segment starts at 15:32
A bit churlish

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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed May 25, 2022 9:33 am

Grumble wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 9:21 am
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 8:38 am
Electric building sites sound nice. Must be quieter by comparison.
https://youtu.be/OJtzuZIO-88

Hope this link goes to the right point in the video, if not the relevant segment starts at 15:32
Quiet enough to do a piece to camera in front of a digger - wow!

Cities are gonna be so much nicer after The Transition.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.

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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Grumble » Wed May 25, 2022 9:45 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 9:33 am
Grumble wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 9:21 am
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 8:38 am
Electric building sites sound nice. Must be quieter by comparison.
https://youtu.be/OJtzuZIO-88

Hope this link goes to the right point in the video, if not the relevant segment starts at 15:32
Quiet enough to do a piece to camera in front of a digger - wow!

Cities are gonna be so much nicer after The Transition.
It’s a fairly small dig site, can’t see it working for a big building construction, but there are loads of small digs that happen.
A bit churlish

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Re: Wet Petrol

Post by Gfamily » Wed May 25, 2022 10:07 am

as an aside, I keep interpreting the thread title as "Snow Patrol after a thaw"
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

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