Obesogens

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Re: Obesogens

Post by shpalman » Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:20 am

Maginnis also said that he “never got burned out” on Big Macs, quarter-pounders, french fries, apple fritters and other items because of the half-portions.
Not sure how balanced a diet you can really get if you only eat at McDonalds, but it seems like he wasn't only eating one thing.

But only eating half of what he ordered bothers me a bit because of the waste of food. Maybe if his wife joined in then they ended up sharing a whole portion between them.

It does kind of suggest that the issue isn't the food itself but rather the large portion sizes.

In the photos at NYPost he does look much better for it.
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Re: Obesogens

Post by shpalman » Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:23 am

Al Capone Junior wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:53 am
shpalman wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 5:07 pm
man loses weight by not eating as much
Cutting his drinks down to just water may have reduced his typical calorie intake so much that half portions of McDonald's could actually affect his weight. If he's truly getting so much fewer calories than he might otherwise burn on a typical day, it's at least plausible. But wouldn't that eventually mean he'd be at a place where such a diet would be detrimental, with too much weight loss?

Pure speculation, btw.
Cutting out alcohol also helps.

As he loses weight he's also going to need fewer "maintenance" calories so his weight loss will slow down and he'll eventually be in equilibrium at some new lower weight. In the photos he looks good, not like he's wasting away.
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Re: Obesogens

Post by shpalman » Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:24 am

Al Capone Junior wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:00 am
I would still bet on sugar being the major culprit with other factors being much less important
Sugar has calories. But otherwise the main thing to do first is to reduce the total calorie intake (then the second thing to do in my opinion, as I keep saying, is to get about 30% of your calories from protein).
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Re: Obesogens

Post by Tessa K » Wed Jun 07, 2023 9:49 am

shpalman wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:20 am
Maginnis also said that he “never got burned out” on Big Macs, quarter-pounders, french fries, apple fritters and other items because of the half-portions.
Not sure how balanced a diet you can really get if you only eat at McDonalds, but it seems like he wasn't only eating one thing.

But only eating half of what he ordered bothers me a bit because of the waste of food. Maybe if his wife joined in then they ended up sharing a whole portion between them.

It does kind of suggest that the issue isn't the food itself but rather the large portion sizes.

In the photos at NYPost he does look much better for it.
I thought about waste too. And waste of money.

Any fad diet with calorie restriction will work but being thinner isn't the same as being healthy, especially long term.

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Re: Obesogens

Post by shpalman » Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:23 am

Tessa K wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 9:49 am
shpalman wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:20 am
Maginnis also said that he “never got burned out” on Big Macs, quarter-pounders, french fries, apple fritters and other items because of the half-portions.
Not sure how balanced a diet you can really get if you only eat at McDonalds, but it seems like he wasn't only eating one thing.

But only eating half of what he ordered bothers me a bit because of the waste of food. Maybe if his wife joined in then they ended up sharing a whole portion between them.

It does kind of suggest that the issue isn't the food itself but rather the large portion sizes.

In the photos at NYPost he does look much better for it.
I thought about waste too. And waste of money.

Any fad diet with calorie restriction will work but being thinner isn't the same as being healthy, especially long term.
Not being obese does correlate with various better health outcomes though.
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Re: Obesogens

Post by discovolante » Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:35 am

It does but a thin person who has no vitamin c (for example) isn't going to do well.

And of course obesity can be connected with, or an outcome of, other issues (including childhood trauma, which is not great for the old health generally) which could themselves be the trigger for poor health, rather than the obesity itself.
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Re: Obesogens

Post by shpalman » Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:06 am

discovolante wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:35 am
It does but a thin person who has no vitamin c (for example) isn't going to do well.
Thin people need less vitamin C (for example)
discovolante wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:35 am
And of course obesity can be connected with, or an outcome of, other issues (including childhood trauma, which is not great for the old health generally) which could themselves be the trigger for poor health, rather than the obesity itself.
What other issues are these which have gotten so much worse over the past 20-30 years? Which are so much worse in countries like Mexico, the USA, and the UK compared to most of Western Europe?
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Re: Obesogens

Post by shpalman » Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:20 am

discovolante wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:35 am
It does but a thin person who has no vitamin c (for example) isn't going to do well.

And of course obesity can be connected with, or an outcome of, other issues (including childhood trauma, which is not great for the old health generally) which could themselves be the trigger for poor health, rather than the obesity itself.
A child with one obese parent has a 50 percent chance of being obese. When both parents are obese, their children have an 80 percent chance of obesity.
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Re: Obesogens

Post by Tessa K » Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:21 pm

It will be interesting to see as food gets increasingly expensive whether obesity levels change. Poverty is one of the main drivers of health outcomes, not just weight.

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Re: Obesogens

Post by shpalman » Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:52 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:21 pm
It will be interesting to see as food gets increasingly expensive whether obesity levels change. Poverty is one of the main drivers of health outcomes, not just weight.
Yes it's a noted anomaly that obesity is correlated with lower income in places like the USA, Canada, or the UK, but that meta-analysis seems to come out with the idea that being obese leads to lower income, rather than lower income leads people to become obese.
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Re: Obesogens

Post by discovolante » Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:05 pm

shpalman wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:06 am
discovolante wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:35 am
It does but a thin person who has no vitamin c (for example) isn't going to do well.
Thin people need less vitamin C (for example)
discovolante wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:35 am
And of course obesity can be connected with, or an outcome of, other issues (including childhood trauma, which is not great for the old health generally) which could themselves be the trigger for poor health, rather than the obesity itself.
What other issues are these which have gotten so much worse over the past 20-30 years? Which are so much worse in countries like Mexico, the USA, and the UK compared to most of Western Europe?
You were responding to a post pointing out that weight loss isn't necessarily a sign of good health, in the context of a discussion about a man who is living exclusively off McDonald's, by suggesting that it was ok because he isn't obese. Broader public health issues don't always directly apply to individual cases.
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Re: Obesogens

Post by Tessa K » Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:14 pm

shpalman wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:52 pm
Tessa K wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:21 pm
It will be interesting to see as food gets increasingly expensive whether obesity levels change. Poverty is one of the main drivers of health outcomes, not just weight.
Yes it's a noted anomaly that obesity is correlated with lower income in places like the USA, Canada, or the UK, but that meta-analysis seems to come out with the idea that being obese leads to lower income, rather than lower income leads people to become obese.
If food that is filling but low in nutrition, high in sat fats etc gets expensive then people may eat less of it - effectively that guy's half a Macdonalds diet.

Given the growing frequency of reports of kids going to school hungry, poverty may drive down obesity. It would be interesting to see an analysis of the calorie/nutrition content of the average food bank package.

In the last few decades, food has been cheaper as a percentage of income than in the past so it was easy to overeat unhealthy stuff or even too large portions of healthy food.

Then there's shrinkflation. A pack of biscuits or chocolate bar is smaller than in the past, effectively reducing calorie intake.

Does the meta analysis that suggests obesity leads to lower income control for poverty causing worse access to healthcare, education and other factors that can lead to lower income?

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Re: Obesogens

Post by shpalman » Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:28 am

discovolante wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:05 pm
shpalman wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:06 am
discovolante wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:35 am
It does but a thin person who has no vitamin c (for example) isn't going to do well.
Thin people need less vitamin C (for example)
discovolante wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:35 am
And of course obesity can be connected with, or an outcome of, other issues (including childhood trauma, which is not great for the old health generally) which could themselves be the trigger for poor health, rather than the obesity itself.
What other issues are these which have gotten so much worse over the past 20-30 years? Which are so much worse in countries like Mexico, the USA, and the UK compared to most of Western Europe?
You were responding to a post pointing out that weight loss isn't necessarily a sign of good health, in the context of a discussion about a man who is living exclusively off McDonald's, by suggesting that it was ok because he isn't obese. Broader public health issues don't always directly apply to individual cases.
We don't know at this point what sorts of health issues will eventually show up in Kevin Maginnis's life, and what he'll eventually die of, but we'll eventually find out. However, it will of course be impossible to know what would have happened had he not decided to restrict his calories and lose that ~26 kg. We will not be able to compare Kevin Maginnis at the end of his life with a control Kevin Maginnis who didn't do this diet. So we won't know if he would have had serious health issues from e.g. type II diabetes (he mentions he was "pre-diabetic") which he will now avoid, for example. But we have population-level statistics which suggest that it is now less likely for him personally. I mean, this is true of just about every intervention; I can't compare my experience of having covid last year to what it would have been like if I hadn't had all those shots of the vaccine but we know from the trials that it reduced my chances of the covid being severe.
discovolante wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:35 am
It does but a thin person who has no vitamin c (for example) isn't going to do well.
I couldn't figure out if you meant that losing weight has no effect if someone is suffering an underlying health condition which isn't weight-related, or if you meant that there's such a thing as being too thin (of course there's an "underweight" range too but Kevin Maginnis isn't there and wouldn't necessarily be on his way there), or if you meant that someone on a calorie-restrictive diet based on eating a lot less might end up not eating enough vitamins either and so end up with a deficiency, or if you meant that some serious health conditions cause people to quickly lose weight.

But the post I was responding to didn't say "weight loss isn't necessarily a sign of good health" it said
Tessa K wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 9:49 am
... being thinner isn't the same as being healthy, especially long term.
I mean, for a lot of things it tends to be a U-shaped graph with "underweight" being severely unhealthy, that's why there's such a thing as "underweight", but generally, "being thinner" as compared to being overweight or obese is more healthy than being overweight or obese, especially long term, since that paper talks about chronic conditions such as various cancers and cardiovascular failures.

Older people tend to lose weight by losing muscle mass, though, and that's bad, which is why I keep banging on about protein and weight training.
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Re: Obesogens

Post by Tessa K » Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:19 am

@shpalman

When I said being thinner isn't the same as being healthy, I was referring to Macdonalds Man rather than people in general. If his only goal is to lose weight rather than to be healthy through a balanced diet and exercise then he may well be vitamin/mineral deficient which could cause problems medium to long term. He could even get scurvy! Is he exercising?

And, as we know, weight loss is only the first step. Maintaining a lower weight is very hard and needs a mental and lifestyle shift as well as the right diet.

I agree absolutely about muscle loss in older people. It's not inevitable but does require a lot of work.

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Re: Obesogens

Post by dyqik » Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:47 am

There's also rickets, calcium deficiency, and a whole host of other nutritional deficiencies that you can get with a poor diet while meeting healthy calorie goals.

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Re: Obesogens

Post by Tessa K » Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:51 am

dyqik wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:47 am
There's also rickets, calcium deficiency, and a whole host of other nutritional deficiencies that you can get with a poor diet while meeting healthy calorie goals.
Sadly true or I would live on biscuits.

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Re: Obesogens

Post by shpalman » Thu Jun 08, 2023 11:41 am

At Man going viral for eating only McDonald’s for 100 days shares weight loss progress it says
Maginnis’ approach is quite simple: Order three McDonald’s meals a day but only consume half of each meal to reduce caloric intake. He then saves the rest for his next meal.
Not sure how that works, if he's ordering three meals a day but then eating the other half the next time, he doesn't need to order three each day. But still I suppose it means he isn't actually throwing away the other half.

It eventually says
Of course, he’s also aware that he has critics, particularly those in the medical field who have pointed out that eating McDonald’s for 100 days straight isn’t exactly a healthy choice. But he feels strongly that shedding the pounds first is more important for his health than changing the foods he eats.

"Eating different macronutrients that are going to help my brain function — if I’m dead, my brain function is not going to improve, so let's get rid of this (obesity) killer first," he says.

Registered dietitian Frances Largeman-Roth previously told TODAY.com that while you can lose weight while eating fast food, some of the ingredients aren't ideal for a healthy diet.

“Even though Kevin is cutting his meals in half, he’s still getting well over the recommended 2,300 milligrams of sodium daily. One bacon, egg and cheese biscuit contains 1,330 milligrams of sodium, and a Big Mac has over 1,000 milligrams without ketchup or mustard,” she explained.

In addition, Largeman-Roth said Maginnis will eventually need to add physical activity to his regiment once the weight loss plateaus.

"And let’s remember that health isn’t just about the number on the scale. It’s also about cardiovascular health and other measures,” she added.

In the long term, Maginnis agrees that exercise and vitamins are important. But for the remainder of his 100-day challenge, he's just going to focus on portion control — "and on my body, it seems to be working," he says.
Then at Man who ate only McDonald’s for 100 days to lose weight shares final results...
Now that Maginnis has reached his goal weight, the next step is embarking on a workout routine.

"(I plan to) increase the beast in me. We're going be doing an ice plunge. I'm going do a 100-foot rope climb," he said, adding that the latter goal is his "personal Everest."

Maginnis is looking forward to eating a filet mignon on Friday, and he plans to eat three quarters of his meals moving forward to maintain his weight.

Maginnis understands that many people question his methods, but he said the initial part of his experiment was focused primarily on weight loss.

"Are there better micronutrients or macronutrients for brain health? Absolutely. But when it comes to getting rid of obesity, reduce the size of the meals," he said.
He also had bloodwork done, and while he only talks about his cholesterol levels, the exam would have picked up vitamin deficiency. I'm not going to watch his entire tiktok to see if he ever shows the whole set of results but I don't think he has scurvy or rickets.
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Re: Obesogens

Post by Tessa K » Thu Jun 08, 2023 3:12 pm

Doing an ice plunge to release his inner beast? I hope his heart is up to it.

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Re: Obesogens

Post by jdc » Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:35 pm

shpalman wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 11:41 am
He also had bloodwork done, and while he only talks about his cholesterol levels, the exam would have picked up vitamin deficiency. I'm not going to watch his entire tiktok to see if he ever shows the whole set of results but I don't think he has scurvy or rickets.
100 days is probably roughly how long it takes to see symptoms of scurvy https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15582167/ & https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36153722/

Probably some tiny amount of each essential vitamin and mineral present in a McDonald's meal, too. Not that I'm going to look them all up to check.

Here's a Bun
Actually, this looks like the whole burger: https://fdc.nal.usda.gov/fdc-app.html#/ ... /nutrients
Fries: https://fdc.nal.usda.gov/fdc-app.html#/ ... /nutrients (including 5.6mg of vitamin C)
Shake: https://fastfoodnutrition.org/mcdonalds ... ake/medium

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Re: Obesogens

Post by Al Capone Junior » Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:39 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:50 am
Any kind of calorie restriction would cause weight loss but on a diet like that my concerns would be a) lack of fibre - how does he poo? and b) malnutrition - such a limited range of foods would mean not getting the necessary range of vitamins, minerals etc. Is he taking supplements?

Eating just one type of food in this way sounds more like an eating disorder than a diet.
Supplements? Since it doesn't say I guess we won't know. And while I'm not a dietitian or MD, I would think that malnutrition wouldn't be a problem that had a rapid onset in this case, assuming they ate a reasonable diet before their mickey-D's diet began, and assuming that even the repulsive (to me) super-size-slimming mickey-D's diet probably provides at least small amounts of most critical macro and micro nutrients. As said this is speculation, do tell if I'm wildly off course here.

Now the fiber/poop thing... Six months of mickey-D's sounds like you'd not only need a new toilet, you'd need to tear out the drywall in there too. No amount of air freshener could possibly overcome that. Plus you'd probably be divorced after that. :shock:

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Re: Obesogens

Post by Tessa K » Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:13 pm

Al Capone Junior wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:39 pm
Tessa K wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:50 am
Any kind of calorie restriction would cause weight loss but on a diet like that my concerns would be a) lack of fibre - how does he poo? and b) malnutrition - such a limited range of foods would mean not getting the necessary range of vitamins, minerals etc. Is he taking supplements?

Eating just one type of food in this way sounds more like an eating disorder than a diet.
Supplements? Since it doesn't say I guess we won't know. And while I'm not a dietitian or MD, I would think that malnutrition wouldn't be a problem that had a rapid onset in this case, assuming they ate a reasonable diet before their mickey-D's diet began, and assuming that even the repulsive (to me) super-size-slimming mickey-D's diet probably provides at least small amounts of most critical macro and micro nutrients. As said this is speculation, do tell if I'm wildly off course here.

Now the fiber/poop thing... Six months of mickey-D's sounds like you'd not only need a new toilet, you'd need to tear out the drywall in there too. No amount of air freshener could possibly overcome that. Plus you'd probably be divorced after that. :shock:
Or you'd die on the toilet like Elvis

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Re: Obesogens

Post by shpalman » Tue Jun 13, 2023 7:05 am

Al Capone Junior wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:39 pm
Tessa K wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:50 am
Any kind of calorie restriction would cause weight loss but on a diet like that my concerns would be a) lack of fibre - how does he poo? and b) malnutrition - such a limited range of foods would mean not getting the necessary range of vitamins, minerals etc. Is he taking supplements?

Eating just one type of food in this way sounds more like an eating disorder than a diet.
Nothing on the McDonald's menu was off limits — including fries and dessert
There is more than one type of food on the McDonald's menu.

I'd missed this link before: https://www.today.com/video/man-vows-to ... 4321861968
Al Capone Junior wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:39 pm
Supplements? Since it doesn't say I guess we won't know. And while I'm not a dietitian or MD, I would think that malnutrition wouldn't be a problem that had a rapid onset in this case, assuming they ate a reasonable diet before their mickey-D's diet began, and assuming that even the repulsive (to me) super-size-slimming mickey-D's diet probably provides at least small amounts of most critical macro and micro nutrients. As said this is speculation, do tell if I'm wildly off course here.
I don't think he's took any supplements:
In the long term, Maginnis agrees that exercise and vitamins are important. But for the remainder of his 100-day challenge, he's just going to focus on portion control — "and on my body, it seems to be working," he says.

Al Capone Junior wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:39 pm
Now the fiber/poop thing... Six months of mickey-D's...
100 days is a bit more than three months.
Al Capone Junior wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:39 pm
... Plus you'd probably be divorced after that. :shock:
Halfway through the challenge, Maginnis’ wife, Melody, joined him. In 40 days, she’s lost 17 pounds, her husband shared.
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Re: Obesogens

Post by shpalman » Mon Jul 24, 2023 7:13 am

the Guardian on belly fat
... it is something to address quickly, as we are learning that abdominal visceral fat might play a part in a cascade of ill-effects throughout the body, leading to everything from diabetes to certain forms of cancer.
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Re: Obesogens

Post by Tessa K » Mon Jul 24, 2023 8:55 am

shpalman wrote:
Mon Jul 24, 2023 7:13 am
the Guardian on belly fat
... it is something to address quickly, as we are learning that abdominal visceral fat might play a part in a cascade of ill-effects throughout the body, leading to everything from diabetes to certain forms of cancer.
We already know about visceral fat, don't we?

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Re: Obesogens

Post by shpalman » Mon Jul 24, 2023 2:11 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Mon Jul 24, 2023 8:55 am
shpalman wrote:
Mon Jul 24, 2023 7:13 am
the Guardian on belly fat
... it is something to address quickly, as we are learning that abdominal visceral fat might play a part in a cascade of ill-effects throughout the body, leading to everything from diabetes to certain forms of cancer.
We already know about visceral fat, don't we?
Well, we do, but maybe the Guardian decided that not enough of their readers do.

How's everyone's diets going? Visible six packs yet?
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