Zombie story rom 2010 - Cancer is manmade (yeah right)

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jimbob
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Zombie story rom 2010 - Cancer is manmade (yeah right)

Post by jimbob » Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:41 pm

bl..dy hell, this is bad

https://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/n ... -man-made/

It appeared on my news feed today and I see it dates to 2010.

with a link to the paper (I can see the abstract)

https://www.nature.com/articles/nrc2914
In industrialized societies, cancer is second only to cardiovascular disease as a cause of death. The history of this disorder has the potential to improve our understanding of disease prevention, aetiology, pathogenesis and treatment. A striking rarity of malignancies in ancient physical remains might indicate that cancer was rare in antiquity, and so poses questions about the role of carcinogenic environmental factors in modern societies. Although the rarity of cancer in antiquity remains undisputed, the first published histological diagnosis of cancer in an Egyptian mummy demonstrates that new evidence is still forthcoming.
I wonder why something that is predominantly a disease of older people would be rarely seen in a neolithic population.

I suspect infection, accidents, and violence would probably explain a lot. Plus possibly cultural reasons why it might be considered unclean or cursed.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Zombie story rom 2010 - Cancer is manmade (yeah right)

Post by Tessa K » Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:34 am

jimbob wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:41 pm
bl..dy hell, this is bad

https://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/n ... -man-made/

It appeared on my news feed today and I see it dates to 2010.

with a link to the paper (I can see the abstract)

https://www.nature.com/articles/nrc2914
In industrialized societies, cancer is second only to cardiovascular disease as a cause of death. The history of this disorder has the potential to improve our understanding of disease prevention, aetiology, pathogenesis and treatment. A striking rarity of malignancies in ancient physical remains might indicate that cancer was rare in antiquity, and so poses questions about the role of carcinogenic environmental factors in modern societies. Although the rarity of cancer in antiquity remains undisputed, the first published histological diagnosis of cancer in an Egyptian mummy demonstrates that new evidence is still forthcoming.
I wonder why something that is predominantly a disease of older people would be rarely seen in a neolithic population.

I suspect infection, accidents, and violence would probably explain a lot. Plus possibly cultural reasons why it might be considered unclean or cursed.
Would cancer be evident in a skeleton?

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Re: Zombie story rom 2010 - Cancer is manmade (yeah right)

Post by jimbob » Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:45 am

They were looking at mummies, and to be fair, did consider whether tumours would be preserved.

But I recall reading that the first description of breast cancer was from hieroglyphs. Of course, that recollection simply narrows it down to several millennia BCE.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Zombie story rom 2010 - Cancer is manmade (yeah right)

Post by tenchboy » Fri Jun 09, 2023 11:00 am

Imagine if a genetic immunity to the black death was linked to an increased susceptibility to cancer.
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Re: Zombie story rom 2010 - Cancer is manmade (yeah right)

Post by Sciolus » Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:11 pm

Professor Rosalie David, at the Faculty of Life Sciences, said: “... There is nothing in the natural environment that can cause cancer. So it has to be a man-made disease, down to pollution and changes to our diet and lifestyle.”
:shock: WTAFF?

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Re: Zombie story rom 2010 - Cancer is manmade (yeah right)

Post by dyqik » Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:02 pm

Sciolus wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:11 pm
Professor Rosalie David, at the Faculty of Life Sciences, said: “... There is nothing in the natural environment that can cause cancer. So it has to be a man-made disease, down to pollution and changes to our diet and lifestyle.”
:shock: WTAFF?
I hadn't realized that cosmic rays and sunlight were man-made.

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Re: Zombie story rom 2010 - Cancer is manmade (yeah right)

Post by IvanV » Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:40 pm

dyqik wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:02 pm
Sciolus wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:11 pm
Professor Rosalie David, at the Faculty of Life Sciences, said: “... There is nothing in the natural environment that can cause cancer. So it has to be a man-made disease, down to pollution and changes to our diet and lifestyle.”
:shock: WTAFF?
I hadn't realized that cosmic rays and sunlight were man-made.
Mineral dust, there was never any of that blowing around before man and his machinations. Look at the complete absence of particulate matter on the surface of pristine worlds like Mars and the moon. And human papilloma virus, definitely man made that. Aren't there carcinogenic moulds that grow on foods - clearly those would have never existed if man hadn't been eating that food.

But you have to give it to her. It it is quite unarguable, that if the world was free from man, then no people could possibly catch cancer.

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Re: Zombie story rom 2010 - Cancer is manmade (yeah right)

Post by jdc » Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:42 pm

tenchboy wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 11:00 am
Imagine if a genetic immunity to the black death was linked to an increased susceptibility to cancer.
You write the nov, I'll take 20% of the film rights.
I did once read something about a mutation being protective against the black death but causing haemochromatosis. Can't remember where, but this says something similar: https://www.aaas.org/hemochromatosis-and-plague
It is believed that the mutation results in the absence of the C282Y protein on host cell surfaces, causing an increase in the affinity of cellular receptors for transferrin (an unaffected protein in humans which carries iron in the blood) and hindering transferrin acquisition by pathogens.
This survival advantage during the plague is thought to be responsible for the current high rates of the mutation in those with European ancestry. If true, this mutation may have been responsible for an increased survival during the plague, but at the cost of a decreased life expectancy for them later on.

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Re: Zombie story rom 2010 - Cancer is manmade (yeah right)

Post by Chris Preston » Fri Jun 09, 2023 11:59 pm

dyqik wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:02 pm
Sciolus wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:11 pm
Professor Rosalie David, at the Faculty of Life Sciences, said: “... There is nothing in the natural environment that can cause cancer. So it has to be a man-made disease, down to pollution and changes to our diet and lifestyle.”
:shock: WTAFF?
I hadn't realized that cosmic rays and sunlight were man-made.
Not to mention the BRCA gene mutations.
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Re: Zombie story rom 2010 - Cancer is manmade (yeah right)

Post by shpalman » Sat Jun 10, 2023 1:03 am

I have full access to the paper by the way, if anyone wants it.

But it didn't take long on google to find https://www.history.com/news/oldest-can ... sic-fossil as well as https://theconversation.com/fossil-evid ... ears-63430
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Re: Zombie story rom 2010 - Cancer is manmade (yeah right)

Post by dyqik » Sat Jun 10, 2023 1:19 am

"Cancer" is such a generic thing that it should realistically date to the first pairings of disparate cells into an organism.

If a grouping of disparate cells is usually fitter than individual cells or a grouping of a single cell type, then any shift from a balanced grouping of disparate cells to a grouping dominated by one cell that divides more frequently than the other types in the group, and that leads to an imbalance of the grouping is "cancer".

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Re: Zombie story rom 2010 - Cancer is manmade (yeah right)

Post by Martin_B » Sat Jun 10, 2023 2:09 am

Sciolus wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:11 pm
Professor Rosalie David, at the Faculty of Life Sciences, said: “... There is nothing in the natural environment that can cause cancer. So it has to be a man-made disease, down to pollution and changes to our diet and lifestyle.”
:shock: WTAFF?
Tasmanian Devils would beg to differ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_fac ... ur_disease)
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Re: Zombie story rom 2010 - Cancer is manmade (yeah right)

Post by Formerly AvP » Sat Jun 10, 2023 8:48 am

Cancer
from Latin cancer "a crab," later, "malignant tumor," from Greek karkinos, which, like the Modern English word, has three meanings: a crab, a tumor, and the zodiac constellation represented by a crab. "
https://www.etymonline.com/word/cancer

The Greeks saw a fancied connection between tumours and crabs, perhaps due to the swollen veins surrounding the tumour, or a skin cancer giving the impression of being gnawed by an invisible crab. Greek society would count as pre-industrial, although if Hero had just put a little more thought into his radial steam turbine..
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Re: Zombie story rom 2010 - Cancer is manmade (yeah right)

Post by jimbob » Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:44 am

Formerly AvP wrote:
Sat Jun 10, 2023 8:48 am
Cancer
from Latin cancer "a crab," later, "malignant tumor," from Greek karkinos, which, like the Modern English word, has three meanings: a crab, a tumor, and the zodiac constellation represented by a crab. "
https://www.etymonline.com/word/cancer

The Greeks saw a fancied connection between tumours and crabs, perhaps due to the swollen veins surrounding the tumour, or a skin cancer giving the impression of being gnawed by an invisible crab. Greek society would count as pre-industrial, although if Hero had just put a little more thought into his radial steam turbine..
I thought it was because it was supposed to spread to unrelated places. People WOULD have tried to cut some out.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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