Citation needed

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sTeamTraen
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Citation needed

Post by sTeamTraen » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:59 pm

Dubious scientific claims in advertising and public places...

#1: Organic food.
Translation: "Eating organic is better for you and better for the planet".

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plodder
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Re: Citation needed

Post by plodder » Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:37 pm

it’s certainly locally better for insects and the wider food web, worse in terms of the amount of land you need to farm though.

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dyqik
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Re: Citation needed

Post by dyqik » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:08 pm

plodder wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:37 pm
it’s certainly locally better for insects and the wider food web, worse in terms of the amount of land you need to farm though.
I'm not sure about the first, tbh. "Organic" can still be done with massive fields of monoculture.

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Woodchopper
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Re: Citation needed

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:01 pm

dyqik wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:08 pm
plodder wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:37 pm
it’s certainly locally better for insects and the wider food web, worse in terms of the amount of land you need to farm though.
I'm not sure about the first, tbh. "Organic" can still be done with massive fields of monoculture.
As far as I remember with less use of pesticides.

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dyqik
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Re: Citation needed

Post by dyqik » Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:13 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:01 pm
dyqik wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:08 pm
plodder wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:37 pm
it’s certainly locally better for insects and the wider food web, worse in terms of the amount of land you need to farm though.
I'm not sure about the first, tbh. "Organic" can still be done with massive fields of monoculture.
As far as I remember with less use of pesticides.
But still with problematic pesticides, like copper sulfate etc.

Related to that, do not eat the skins of organic potatoes.

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sTeamTraen
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Re: Citation needed

Post by sTeamTraen » Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:15 pm

dyqik wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:13 pm
Related to that, do not eat the skins of organic potatoes.
Have you got a reference for that ? In one of my online lives I'm surrounded by wibble of the "vegan and organic" variety (FFS, do they have no idea what goes into fertiliser for "organic" food?), so it would be nice to have some backup about copper residues.

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dyqik
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Re: Citation needed

Post by dyqik » Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:19 pm

sTeamTraen wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:15 pm
dyqik wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:13 pm
Related to that, do not eat the skins of organic potatoes.
Have you got a reference for that ? In one of my online lives I'm surrounded by wibble of the "vegan and organic" variety (FFS, do they have no idea what goes into fertiliser for "organic" food?), so it would be nice to have some backup about copper residues.
It's a personal recommendation from an ecologist of our former parish.

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Gfamily
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Re: Citation needed

Post by Gfamily » Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:37 pm

dyqik wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:19 pm
sTeamTraen wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:15 pm
dyqik wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:13 pm
Related to that, do not eat the skins of organic potatoes.
Have you got a reference for that ? In one of my online lives I'm surrounded by wibble of the "vegan and organic" variety (FFS, do they have no idea what goes into fertiliser for "organic" food?), so it would be nice to have some backup about copper residues.
It's a personal recommendation from an ecologist of our former parish.
Also a recommendation of a food residues expert of our family
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct

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Aitch
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Re: Citation needed

Post by Aitch » Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:44 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:37 pm
dyqik wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:19 pm
sTeamTraen wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:15 pm

Have you got a reference for that ? In one of my online lives I'm surrounded by wibble of the "vegan and organic" variety (FFS, do they have no idea what goes into fertiliser for "organic" food?), so it would be nice to have some backup about copper residues.
It's a personal recommendation from an ecologist of our former parish.
Also a recommendation of a food residues expert of our family
Not a vegan/organic question, but how do they feel on the rice/arsenic question?
Some people call me strange.
I prefer unconventional.
But I'm willing to compromise and accept eccentric
.

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Gfamily
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Re: Citation needed

Post by Gfamily » Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:15 pm

Aitch wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:44 pm
Gfamily wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:37 pm
dyqik wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:19 pm


It's a personal recommendation from an ecologist of our former parish.
Also a recommendation of a food residues expert of our family
Not a vegan/organic question, but how do they feel on the rice/arsenic question?
I don't recall any hesitancy about eating rice, I think she just accepts it, As is.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct

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shpalman
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Re: Citation needed

Post by shpalman » Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:55 am

Gfamily wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:15 pm
I don't recall any hesitancy about eating rice, I think she just accepts it, As is.
Nicely done.
molto tricky

Herainestold
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Re: Citation needed

Post by Herainestold » Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:37 pm

There needs to be a synthesis of organic and GMO technology. Fewer pesticides and yield enhancing modifications. Take GMOs from the corporations and put them in the hands of agriculture departments and the universities.

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sTeamTraen
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Re: Citation needed

Post by sTeamTraen » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:55 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:37 pm
There needs to be a synthesis of organic and GMO technology. Fewer pesticides and yield enhancing modifications. Take GMOs from the corporations and put them in the hands of agriculture departments and the universities.
Not much chance of that happening as long as the organic evangelists are so dead set against GMO. Not nacheral, y'see.

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Re: Citation needed

Post by Pucksoppet » Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:14 pm

shpalman wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:55 am
Gfamily wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:15 pm
I don't recall any hesitancy about eating rice, I think she just accepts it, As is.
Nicely done.
I concur.

Oddly enough, I looked into the problem* of arsenic in rice once, which is exacerbated by the the absorption method of cooking it (grow it in arsenic contaminated rice paddies, then cook it via absorption in arsenic contaminated water). Steamed rice is a bit of a misnomer, as the rice absorbs a lot of the water it is cooked with, and there is evidence rice takes up arsenic from the cooking water. I was previously under the mistaken impression that rice steamers actually steamed the rice, which would be better than boiling it in arsenic contaminated water. And of course, rice steamers don't actually only steam the rice: it would take far too long.

It turns out the BBC programme Trust Me, I'm a Doctor also looked into this:

Should I be concerned about arsenic in my rice?

Which came to the conclusion that if you wanted to reduce the level of Arsenic in the cooked rice, it needed to be cooked in a large excess of water.

I still eat rice cooked by the absorption method, but not every day.


*Not professionally

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Aitch
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Re: Citation needed

Post by Aitch » Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:10 pm

Pucksoppet wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:14 pm
shpalman wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:55 am
Gfamily wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:15 pm
I don't recall any hesitancy about eating rice, I think she just accepts it, As is.
Nicely done.
I concur.

Oddly enough, I looked into the problem* of arsenic in rice once, which is exacerbated by the the absorption method of cooking it (grow it in arsenic contaminated rice paddies, then cook it via absorption in arsenic contaminated water). Steamed rice is a bit of a misnomer, as the rice absorbs a lot of the water it is cooked with, and there is evidence rice takes up arsenic from the cooking water. I was previously under the mistaken impression that rice steamers actually steamed the rice, which would be better than boiling it in arsenic contaminated water. And of course, rice steamers don't actually only steam the rice: it would take far too long.

It turns out the BBC programme Trust Me, I'm a Doctor also looked into this:

Should I be concerned about arsenic in my rice?

Which came to the conclusion that if you wanted to reduce the level of Arsenic in the cooked rice, it needed to be cooked in a large excess of water.

I still eat rice cooked by the absorption method, but not every day.


*Not professionally
Thanks.

I must admit that, since originally reading about it, I have cooked rice by the excess water method - I used to use the absorption method.
Some people call me strange.
I prefer unconventional.
But I'm willing to compromise and accept eccentric
.

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Pucksoppet
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Re: Citation needed

Post by Pucksoppet » Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:27 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:15 pm
I don't recall any hesitancy about eating rice, I think she just accepts it, As is.
And in the spirit of l'esprit d'escalier (it is a very long staircase).

Maybe she thinks it isn't worth getting into a paddy over it.

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