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Citation needed

Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:59 pm
by sTeamTraen
Dubious scientific claims in advertising and public places...

#1: Organic food.
Translation: "Eating organic is better for you and better for the planet".

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2020-01-28 14.57.32.jpg (721.01 KiB) Viewed 4127 times

Re: Citation needed

Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:37 pm
by plodder
it’s certainly locally better for insects and the wider food web, worse in terms of the amount of land you need to farm though.

Re: Citation needed

Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:08 pm
by dyqik
plodder wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:37 pm
it’s certainly locally better for insects and the wider food web, worse in terms of the amount of land you need to farm though.
I'm not sure about the first, tbh. "Organic" can still be done with massive fields of monoculture.

Re: Citation needed

Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:01 pm
by Woodchopper
dyqik wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:08 pm
plodder wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:37 pm
it’s certainly locally better for insects and the wider food web, worse in terms of the amount of land you need to farm though.
I'm not sure about the first, tbh. "Organic" can still be done with massive fields of monoculture.
As far as I remember with less use of pesticides.

Re: Citation needed

Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:13 pm
by dyqik
Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:01 pm
dyqik wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:08 pm
plodder wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:37 pm
it’s certainly locally better for insects and the wider food web, worse in terms of the amount of land you need to farm though.
I'm not sure about the first, tbh. "Organic" can still be done with massive fields of monoculture.
As far as I remember with less use of pesticides.
But still with problematic pesticides, like copper sulfate etc.

Related to that, do not eat the skins of organic potatoes.

Re: Citation needed

Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:15 pm
by sTeamTraen
dyqik wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:13 pm
Related to that, do not eat the skins of organic potatoes.
Have you got a reference for that ? In one of my online lives I'm surrounded by wibble of the "vegan and organic" variety (FFS, do they have no idea what goes into fertiliser for "organic" food?), so it would be nice to have some backup about copper residues.

Re: Citation needed

Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:19 pm
by dyqik
sTeamTraen wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:15 pm
dyqik wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:13 pm
Related to that, do not eat the skins of organic potatoes.
Have you got a reference for that ? In one of my online lives I'm surrounded by wibble of the "vegan and organic" variety (FFS, do they have no idea what goes into fertiliser for "organic" food?), so it would be nice to have some backup about copper residues.
It's a personal recommendation from an ecologist of our former parish.

Re: Citation needed

Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:37 pm
by Gfamily
dyqik wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:19 pm
sTeamTraen wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:15 pm
dyqik wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:13 pm
Related to that, do not eat the skins of organic potatoes.
Have you got a reference for that ? In one of my online lives I'm surrounded by wibble of the "vegan and organic" variety (FFS, do they have no idea what goes into fertiliser for "organic" food?), so it would be nice to have some backup about copper residues.
It's a personal recommendation from an ecologist of our former parish.
Also a recommendation of a food residues expert of our family

Re: Citation needed

Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:44 pm
by Aitch
Gfamily wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:37 pm
dyqik wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:19 pm
sTeamTraen wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:15 pm

Have you got a reference for that ? In one of my online lives I'm surrounded by wibble of the "vegan and organic" variety (FFS, do they have no idea what goes into fertiliser for "organic" food?), so it would be nice to have some backup about copper residues.
It's a personal recommendation from an ecologist of our former parish.
Also a recommendation of a food residues expert of our family
Not a vegan/organic question, but how do they feel on the rice/arsenic question?

Re: Citation needed

Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:15 pm
by Gfamily
Aitch wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:44 pm
Gfamily wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:37 pm
dyqik wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:19 pm


It's a personal recommendation from an ecologist of our former parish.
Also a recommendation of a food residues expert of our family
Not a vegan/organic question, but how do they feel on the rice/arsenic question?
I don't recall any hesitancy about eating rice, I think she just accepts it, As is.

Re: Citation needed

Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:55 am
by shpalman
Gfamily wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:15 pm
I don't recall any hesitancy about eating rice, I think she just accepts it, As is.
Nicely done.

Re: Citation needed

Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:37 pm
by Herainestold
There needs to be a synthesis of organic and GMO technology. Fewer pesticides and yield enhancing modifications. Take GMOs from the corporations and put them in the hands of agriculture departments and the universities.

Re: Citation needed

Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:55 pm
by sTeamTraen
Herainestold wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:37 pm
There needs to be a synthesis of organic and GMO technology. Fewer pesticides and yield enhancing modifications. Take GMOs from the corporations and put them in the hands of agriculture departments and the universities.
Not much chance of that happening as long as the organic evangelists are so dead set against GMO. Not nacheral, y'see.

Re: Citation needed

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:14 pm
by Pucksoppet
shpalman wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:55 am
Gfamily wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:15 pm
I don't recall any hesitancy about eating rice, I think she just accepts it, As is.
Nicely done.
I concur.

Oddly enough, I looked into the problem* of arsenic in rice once, which is exacerbated by the the absorption method of cooking it (grow it in arsenic contaminated rice paddies, then cook it via absorption in arsenic contaminated water). Steamed rice is a bit of a misnomer, as the rice absorbs a lot of the water it is cooked with, and there is evidence rice takes up arsenic from the cooking water. I was previously under the mistaken impression that rice steamers actually steamed the rice, which would be better than boiling it in arsenic contaminated water. And of course, rice steamers don't actually only steam the rice: it would take far too long.

It turns out the BBC programme Trust Me, I'm a Doctor also looked into this:

Should I be concerned about arsenic in my rice?

Which came to the conclusion that if you wanted to reduce the level of Arsenic in the cooked rice, it needed to be cooked in a large excess of water.

I still eat rice cooked by the absorption method, but not every day.


*Not professionally

Re: Citation needed

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:10 pm
by Aitch
Pucksoppet wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:14 pm
shpalman wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:55 am
Gfamily wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:15 pm
I don't recall any hesitancy about eating rice, I think she just accepts it, As is.
Nicely done.
I concur.

Oddly enough, I looked into the problem* of arsenic in rice once, which is exacerbated by the the absorption method of cooking it (grow it in arsenic contaminated rice paddies, then cook it via absorption in arsenic contaminated water). Steamed rice is a bit of a misnomer, as the rice absorbs a lot of the water it is cooked with, and there is evidence rice takes up arsenic from the cooking water. I was previously under the mistaken impression that rice steamers actually steamed the rice, which would be better than boiling it in arsenic contaminated water. And of course, rice steamers don't actually only steam the rice: it would take far too long.

It turns out the BBC programme Trust Me, I'm a Doctor also looked into this:

Should I be concerned about arsenic in my rice?

Which came to the conclusion that if you wanted to reduce the level of Arsenic in the cooked rice, it needed to be cooked in a large excess of water.

I still eat rice cooked by the absorption method, but not every day.


*Not professionally
Thanks.

I must admit that, since originally reading about it, I have cooked rice by the excess water method - I used to use the absorption method.

Re: Citation needed

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:27 pm
by Pucksoppet
Gfamily wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:15 pm
I don't recall any hesitancy about eating rice, I think she just accepts it, As is.
And in the spirit of l'esprit d'escalier (it is a very long staircase).

Maybe she thinks it isn't worth getting into a paddy over it.