Energy storage

Get your science fix here: research, quackery, activism and all the rest
Post Reply
User avatar
dyqik
After Pie
Posts: 2201
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:19 pm
Location: Masshole
Contact:

Energy storage

Post by dyqik » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:51 pm

Prompted by plodder's reply to my terrible infrastructure project of a pumped storage system in Norwich, here's a serious project near me, being built by a UK company:

Liquified Air Storage. The key advantages seem to be that a relatively small system can store energy with low losses for weeks at a time, and can release it relatively fast when required.

User avatar
Gfamily
After Pie
Posts: 1663
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:00 pm

Re: Energy storage

Post by Gfamily » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:19 pm

Not sure about the practicalities there. Compression would heat up the air considerably, and when it's released weeks later it could lead to localised snow showers.


On the other hand, they could also extract Oxygen from the compressed air by passing it over zeolites.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

User avatar
Grumble
Catbabel
Posts: 961
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: Energy storage

Post by Grumble » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:35 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:19 pm
Not sure about the practicalities there. Compression would heat up the air considerably, and when it's released weeks later it could lead to localised snow showers.


On the other hand, they could also extract Oxygen from the compressed air by passing it over zeolites.
They store the heat from compression to drive expansion later.
I know this is vitriol, no solution, spleen venting, but I feel better having screamed, don’t you?

User avatar
Gfamily
After Pie
Posts: 1663
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:00 pm

Re: Energy storage

Post by Gfamily » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:07 pm

Grumble wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:35 pm
Gfamily wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:19 pm
Not sure about the practicalities there. Compression would heat up the air considerably, and when it's released weeks later it could lead to localised snow showers.


On the other hand, they could also extract Oxygen from the compressed air by passing it over zeolites.
They store the heat from compression to drive expansion later.
The article says they cool the air to compress it. So not sure how they would store the heat.
I never really understood thermodynamics, enough to be able to handwave, perhaps; but never enough to be totally confident.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

User avatar
Grumble
Catbabel
Posts: 961
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: Energy storage

Post by Grumble » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:12 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:07 pm
Grumble wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:35 pm
Gfamily wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:19 pm
Not sure about the practicalities there. Compression would heat up the air considerably, and when it's released weeks later it could lead to localised snow showers.


On the other hand, they could also extract Oxygen from the compressed air by passing it over zeolites.
They store the heat from compression to drive expansion later.
The article says they cool the air to compress it. So not sure how they would store the heat.
I never really understood thermodynamics, enough to be able to handwave, perhaps; but never enough to be totally confident.
I’m not sure how either to be fair, I imagine in insulated tanks. They also say it’s more efficient if they can use waste heat and waste cold from other processes. Some concept info here: https://www.highviewpower.com/technology/
I know this is vitriol, no solution, spleen venting, but I feel better having screamed, don’t you?

Post Reply