Booster vaccination
- Woodchopper
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Booster vaccination
A good thread on 4 scenarios that result from giving a booster vaccine:
https://twitter.com/davidwdowdy/status/ ... 21568?s=20
https://twitter.com/davidwdowdy/status/ ... 21568?s=20
Re: Booster vaccination
Hmm.
The scenarios might be different for >80s. Or for Pfizer on top of 2 AZs.
I think his conclusion for C is wrong - it's the same as A. If it gives the elderly better protection for the coming 6 months, even if only a small increment on top of the already very good effectiveness against death, then booster now is important. Probably in the next few years there's never going to be a worse time than the coming six months. Going from, say, 90% protection for over 80s to 92% protection is pretty good death saving.
The scenarios might be different for >80s. Or for Pfizer on top of 2 AZs.
I think his conclusion for C is wrong - it's the same as A. If it gives the elderly better protection for the coming 6 months, even if only a small increment on top of the already very good effectiveness against death, then booster now is important. Probably in the next few years there's never going to be a worse time than the coming six months. Going from, say, 90% protection for over 80s to 92% protection is pretty good death saving.
Awarded gold star 4 November 2021
Re: Booster vaccination
Yes, before you think about it 90->92 % sounds trivial but 10%->8% is quite a big change
- Brightonian
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Re: Booster vaccination
Do we know yet how long it takes for a booster to become effective? Just had a Zoom session with my father (mid-80s) who's had his booster today and he was wondering about this. I can't find the answer myself so maybe there's just not enough data out there. And I suppose it depends which vaccine it is too (I assume in my father's case it's Pfizer as he initially had Pfizer).
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Re: Booster vaccination
I haven't seen any data, so I'd guess boosters need about two weeks to be fully effective just like the second dose of two-dose vaccines.
- sTeamTraen
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Re: Booster vaccination
Efficacy is not a binary thing, and neither is the change in efficacy over time; it will be some kind of (presumably monotonic) function. Obviously governments have to say things like "In order for your vaccine to count for travel you must have had the final dose more than 2 weeks ago", but in reality your immunity will evolve over time in some kind of probability density function. (And your immunity is in turn is a probability density function with multiple parameters: how likely are you get how ill given exposure to how much of the virus.)Brightonian wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:33 pmDo we know yet how long it takes for a booster to become effective? Just had a Zoom session with my father (mid-80s) who's had his booster today and he was wondering about this. I can't find the answer myself so maybe there's just not enough data out there. And I suppose it depends which vaccine it is too (I assume in my father's case it's Pfizer as he initially had Pfizer).
Also with boosters, we don't know what someone's pre- and post- immunity is, unless we run antibody tests to at least get a formal estimate of the prevalence of antibodies. At least with the first vaccine, for someone who hasn't had Covid, we can assume their pre-first-shot antibody count was probably zero.
tl;dr: Everything is about statistics at the population level, and there is still much we don't know. Boosters seem like a good risk/reward for vulnerable groups.
Something something hammer something something nail
Re: Booster vaccination
Thread here on cellular immunity and immune memory may be of interest https://twitter.com/MonicaGandhi9/statu ... 3402408960
Seems that you (a) generate more antibodies and (b) generate them more quickly the second time you're exposed to the antigen compared with your first exposure.
Note the long-lasting nature of memory B ("no apparent half-life") and memory T cells ("long half-lives") also "80-100 T cells line up across spike protein so 10-13 mutations of variants can't escape T cells", "Memory B cells bind to conserved regions of the spike protein that are common to all variants" and "memory B cells adapt their antibodies they produce to the variant at hand".
Seems that you (a) generate more antibodies and (b) generate them more quickly the second time you're exposed to the antigen compared with your first exposure.
Note the long-lasting nature of memory B ("no apparent half-life") and memory T cells ("long half-lives") also "80-100 T cells line up across spike protein so 10-13 mutations of variants can't escape T cells", "Memory B cells bind to conserved regions of the spike protein that are common to all variants" and "memory B cells adapt their antibodies they produce to the variant at hand".
- Stupidosaurus
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Re: Booster vaccination
Maybe not that relevant to the aim of this thread but I had a Pfizer booster on Thursday and it's totally flattened me. The first night I shivered uncontrollably, yesterday I had deep fatigue, sweats and couldn't keep food down. Last night and this morning I've been a bit better but still have muscle aches and (slightly less) fatigue. I'm glad I had it, but it's been a truly sh.t couple of days.
Re: Booster vaccination
We’ve just discovered that Frau HS is included in Phase 2 of the booster rollout - even though she was dropped from priority groups in the initial rollout.
It’s because she has asthma and qualifies for a free flu shot. Might be worth checking your eligibility as it’s different to what happened earlier in the year.
It’s because she has asthma and qualifies for a free flu shot. Might be worth checking your eligibility as it’s different to what happened earlier in the year.
Re: Booster vaccination
Were your first two Pfizer as well, or AZ?Stupidosaurus wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:21 amMaybe not that relevant to the aim of this thread but I had a Pfizer booster on Thursday and it's totally flattened me. The first night I shivered uncontrollably, yesterday I had deep fatigue, sweats and couldn't keep food down. Last night and this morning I've been a bit better but still have muscle aches and (slightly less) fatigue. I'm glad I had it, but it's been a truly sh.t couple of days.
- Stupidosaurus
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Re: Booster vaccination
My first two were both AZ. I also had a strong reaction to the first of those (fever, loss of appetite) but that cleared up faster than this is. Second AZ was OK, just one day of feeling a bit off-color.
- Stupidosaurus
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Re: Booster vaccination
In terms of eligibility, I got into the 'healthcare provider' bracket even though I just work in an office at *well-known pharma company*. I've also got some chronic health issues but I don't think that figured in my prioritisation.
Re: Booster vaccination
They're giving everybody Pfizer for the booster dose now. That's what I got yesterday after having 2 X AZ previously.Brightonian wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:33 pmDo we know yet how long it takes for a booster to become effective? Just had a Zoom session with my father (mid-80s) who's had his booster today and he was wondering about this. I can't find the answer myself so maybe there's just not enough data out there. And I suppose it depends which vaccine it is too (I assume in my father's case it's Pfizer as he initially had Pfizer).
Oh, and apart from a slightly sore arm at the injection site, no side effects at all. (Was ill for a day after AZ1 and felt rough for a couple of hours the day after AZ2.)
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.
Fintan O'Toole
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Re: Booster vaccination
Are they? I just googled and they seem to say that there are three different vaccines being given for boosters. My mum (in her mid 90s) got her booster this week but my nephew took her to get it done and she wasn’t given a card so I don’t know which one she got.JQH wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:12 pmThey're giving everybody Pfizer for the booster dose now. That's what I got yesterday after having 2 X AZ previously.Brightonian wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:33 pmDo we know yet how long it takes for a booster to become effective? Just had a Zoom session with my father (mid-80s) who's had his booster today and he was wondering about this. I can't find the answer myself so maybe there's just not enough data out there. And I suppose it depends which vaccine it is too (I assume in my father's case it's Pfizer as he initially had Pfizer).
Oh, and apart from a slightly sore arm at the injection site, no side effects at all. (Was ill for a day after AZ1 and felt rough for a couple of hours the day after AZ2.)
I’ve decided I should be on the pardon list if that’s still in the works
Re: Booster vaccination
I don't know what you found when googling but NHS hasStranger Mouse wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:16 pmAre they? I just googled and they seem to say that there are three different vaccines being given for boosters. My mum (in her mid 90s) got her booster this week but my nephew took her to get it done and she wasn’t given a card so I don’t know which one she got.JQH wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:12 pmThey're giving everybody Pfizer for the booster dose now. That's what I got yesterday after having 2 X AZ previously.Brightonian wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:33 pmDo we know yet how long it takes for a booster to become effective? Just had a Zoom session with my father (mid-80s) who's had his booster today and he was wondering about this. I can't find the answer myself so maybe there's just not enough data out there. And I suppose it depends which vaccine it is too (I assume in my father's case it's Pfizer as he initially had Pfizer).
Oh, and apart from a slightly sore arm at the injection site, no side effects at all. (Was ill for a day after AZ1 and felt rough for a couple of hours the day after AZ2.)
So it is three, but AZ seems to be given only if you can't have an mRNA jab.Most people will be offered a booster dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine or Moderna vaccine.
This means your booster dose may be different from the vaccines you had for your 1st and 2nd doses.
Some people may be offered a booster dose of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine if they cannot have the Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna vaccine.
I thought Moderna was a low dose and this CCG mentions it: https://www.norfolkandwaveneyccg.nhs.uk ... ccinations
It has been recommended that people will have the Pfizer or a half dose of the Moderna vaccine for their COVID-19 booster, even if they had a different vaccine previously.
- Stranger Mouse
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Re: Booster vaccination
Yup that’s what I found.
I wish my mum had been paying attention and taken fulsome notes so she can keep me fully informed. bl..dy nonagenarian slackers.
I wish my mum had been paying attention and taken fulsome notes so she can keep me fully informed. bl..dy nonagenarian slackers.
I’ve decided I should be on the pardon list if that’s still in the works
Re: Booster vaccination
Well, that's what the bloke jabbing me told me.Stranger Mouse wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:16 pmAre they? I just googled and they seem to say that there are three different vaccines being given for boosters. My mum (in her mid 90s) got her booster this week but my nephew took her to get it done and she wasn’t given a card so I don’t know which one she got.JQH wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:12 pmThey're giving everybody Pfizer for the booster dose now. That's what I got yesterday after having 2 X AZ previously.Brightonian wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:33 pmDo we know yet how long it takes for a booster to become effective? Just had a Zoom session with my father (mid-80s) who's had his booster today and he was wondering about this. I can't find the answer myself so maybe there's just not enough data out there. And I suppose it depends which vaccine it is too (I assume in my father's case it's Pfizer as he initially had Pfizer).
Oh, and apart from a slightly sore arm at the injection site, no side effects at all. (Was ill for a day after AZ1 and felt rough for a couple of hours the day after AZ2.)
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.
Fintan O'Toole
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Re: Booster vaccination
If she wants to know, she can ask for an NHS COVID pass, which gives details. See https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavir ... ss-letter/ or https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavir ... ovid-pass/Stranger Mouse wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:16 pmMy mum (in her mid 90s) got her booster this week but my nephew took her to get it done and she wasn’t given a card so I don’t know which one she got.
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Re: Booster vaccination
Cheers. She may do that.Millennie Al wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:04 amIf she wants to know, she can ask for an NHS COVID pass, which gives details. See https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavir ... ss-letter/ or https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavir ... ovid-pass/Stranger Mouse wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:16 pmMy mum (in her mid 90s) got her booster this week but my nephew took her to get it done and she wasn’t given a card so I don’t know which one she got.
I’ve decided I should be on the pardon list if that’s still in the works
Re: Booster vaccination
Just got my 3rd jab. Had Moderna for first two, Pfizer this time. I'm in the US and eligible because of my job. They said I could've had a Moderna if I went somewhere else, but I didn't. The people at the place didn't seem to know if there'd be a difference or not.
I got my flu shot at the same time. Flu shot arm is a little more achey than the Covid arm. Starting to feel like I did for the 2nd jab, which put in bed for a day.
I got my flu shot at the same time. Flu shot arm is a little more achey than the Covid arm. Starting to feel like I did for the 2nd jab, which put in bed for a day.
- Cardinal Fang
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Re: Booster vaccination
Had my booster yesterday (Pfizer for all 3)
Feeling a bit rubbish today.
Felt like hell after my 2nd jab, and not feeling as bad this time round, but still not wonderful
Anticipating same as with my 2nd jab that I'll feel okay tomorrow
CF
Feeling a bit rubbish today.
Felt like hell after my 2nd jab, and not feeling as bad this time round, but still not wonderful
Anticipating same as with my 2nd jab that I'll feel okay tomorrow
CF
Re: Booster vaccination
I ended up feeling better this time, but I don't feel quite right today. A headache is getting in the way of thinking, but it's not bad enough that I can't do stuff. Covid arm is definitely more hurty than flu arm because it got worse overnight.Cardinal Fang wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:53 pmHad my booster yesterday (Pfizer for all 3)
Feeling a bit rubbish today.
Felt like hell after my 2nd jab, and not feeling as bad this time round, but still not wonderful
Anticipating same as with my 2nd jab that I'll feel okay tomorrow
CF
Re: Booster vaccination
My second jab (Moderna) took three days to completely pass.
Can't comment on the arm though, as I make sure to get my jabs in the shoulder that I broke the collarbone on, and which hurts all the time anyway. Might as well put all the pain in the same place, even if it's my dominant arm.
Can't comment on the arm though, as I make sure to get my jabs in the shoulder that I broke the collarbone on, and which hurts all the time anyway. Might as well put all the pain in the same place, even if it's my dominant arm.
- Tessa K
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Re: Booster vaccination
I had the booster yesterday lunchtime (Pfizer, the same as the first two).
I started a very mild cold on Monday night but had no high temperature before the vax (and did a Covid test to be sure).
I spent most of last night awake with my temperature going up and down and my arm is really sore.
I started a very mild cold on Monday night but had no high temperature before the vax (and did a Covid test to be sure).
I spent most of last night awake with my temperature going up and down and my arm is really sore.
- discovolante
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Re: Booster vaccination
I have a slight bee in my bonnet, although I appreciate difficult decisions, many countries entirely unvaccinated etc. Currently it is people of a certain age and the extremely clinically vulnerable getting jabbed. But for example i was, i think, in group 6. So I got my first jab in march and second in may, both AZ because i got the first shortly before the big clot scare. And apparently AZ starts to wear off after about 5 months I.e. now. But I'm not down for a booster and presumably neither are any other group 6ers, many of whom will have probably had AZ. Whereas the younger people not in any group got jabbed later (obviously risky for them to wait but we also had more restrictions then), so their vaccines will wear off later too, perhaps as we reach the new year and the booster gets rolled out nationally as it seems will be the case.
So it seems we have a group of potentially vulnerable people with waning vaccines just over Christmas and new year when disease is at it's most spready? Not entirely happy with that, if I'm right...especially as I'm one of them!
So it seems we have a group of potentially vulnerable people with waning vaccines just over Christmas and new year when disease is at it's most spready? Not entirely happy with that, if I'm right...especially as I'm one of them!
To defy the laws of tradition is a crusade only of the brave.