Vaccine passports

[shpalman]

‘I don’t see why two-thirds should lose their freedom because one-third is dithering’

The country’s worst-affected province of Upper Austria plans to introduce a lockdown for the unvaccinated from Monday next week following recommendations from medical experts.

[sheldrake]

Oh f.ck off. In 2009 we had, what? 40,000 more beds in hospitals and 10% less population - and until 2020 we didn't have a pandemic.

We never had more than 50 additional acute beds in use across London during the largest pre-vaccine wave. We did have significantly higher staff absence though. Occupancy rates have stayed within seasonal norms. Staff absences due to the 'pingdemic' haven't though.

[OffTheRock]

Oh f.ck off. In 2009 we had, what? 40,000 more beds in hospitals and 10% less population - and until 2020 we didn't have a pandemic.

We never had more than 50 additional acute beds in use across London during the largest pre-vaccine wave. We did have significantly higher staff absence though. Occupancy rates have stayed within seasonal norms. Staff absences due to the 'pingdemic' haven't though.

It’s not a pingdemic if you’ve actually got covid though is it you f.cking moron. It might have escaped your notice that a number of HCP died during that first wave, many more were ill enough to be off work for weeks if not months. And then there’s the ones that got covid, and only had to be off for 2 weeks. I know for a fact that we were not the only hospital to have significant numbers of staff off last autumn due to large outbreaks among staff.

When you say occupancy rates stayed within seasonal norms, is that expressed as a % of number of beds? Because we near trebbled the number of MV beds. And I doubt you’d find a single ICU nurse in the country that reckons last winter was in any way normal, even for a bad winter.

[sheldrake]

It’s not a pingdemic if you’ve actually got covid though is it you f.cking moron.

Not everybody who gets pinged has covid, you f.cking moron.

When you say occupancy rates stayed within seasonal norms, is that expressed as a % of number of beds? Because we near trebbled the number of MV beds. And I doubt you’d find a single ICU nurse in the country that reckons last winter was in any way normal, even for a bad winter.

A civil service analysis of the stats on occupancy rates have already been posted. If lots more of your colleagues are off work than normal, then you'll be swamped with work.

[Gfamily]

Oh f.ck off. In 2009 we had, what? 40,000 more beds in hospitals and 10% less population - and until 2020 we didn't have a pandemic.

We never had more than 50 additional acute beds in use across London during the largest pre-vaccine wave. We did have significantly higher staff absence though. Occupancy rates have stayed within seasonal norms. Staff absences due to the 'pingdemic' haven't though.

It’s not a pingdemic if you’ve actually got covid though is it you f.cking moron. It might have escaped your notice that a number of HCP died during that first wave, many more were ill enough to be off work for weeks if not months. And then there’s the ones that got covid, and only had to be off for 2 weeks. I know for a fact that we were not the only hospital to have significant numbers of staff off last autumn due to large outbreaks among staff.

When you say occupancy rates stayed within seasonal norms, is that expressed as a % of number of beds? Because we near trebbled the number of MV beds. And I doubt you’d find a single ICU nurse in the country that reckons last winter was in any way normal, even for a bad winter.

Yes, but you have to realise that for shelly that's just an opinion.

[sheldrake]

Yes, but you have to realise that for shelly that's just an opinion.

Indeed it is viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2639&start=150#p100980

[sheldrake]

Yes, but you have to realise that for shelly that's just an opinion.

And indeed it is viewtopic.php?f=19&t=747&p=99325&hilit= ... ity#p99316

[shpalman]

Sweden is introducing a digital Covid-19 vaccination certificate for public gatherings and events with more than 100 people indoors

Sweden is introducing a digital Covid-19 vaccination certificate for public gatherings and events with more than 100 people indoors, authorities said Wednesday.

Health Minister Lena Hallengren said the country expected to see a rise in cases during the winter and was “not isolated from the rest of the world”.

The vaccination pass will be required for those over the age of either 16 or 18 - the government has yet to decide - at events like concerts, theatres and sporting events, but not at restaurants and bars.

Sweden's case rate is currently looking ok, but then they had a worse time of it back in the spring.

[shpalman]

Majority of public in Europe support Covid vaccine passports.

Although in the UK, support for needing it for restaurants is a bit low.

"Public satisfaction with government handling of the pandemic has fallen sharply in Australia and Germany" but at 52% and 44% respectively is still higher than it was (39%) or is (41%) in the UK (or France or Spain or the US or Brazil).

"Growing proportions of people feel their government's response to coronavirus has been too restrictive on personal freedoms" but we'll plot that on a scale which goes from 10% to 50% to make it look like a stronger effect. It's only 25% in the UK.

[shpalman]

‘super green pass’ in Italy

The “super green pass” is expected to take effect over the next week and would require people to prove they are vaccinated or have recovered from Covid-19 in order to access cinemas, theatres, gyms, nightclubs, ski lifts and stadiums, as well as to be served indoors at bars and restaurants.

Under current “green pass” rules, those who provide proof of a negative test taken within the previous 48 hours are permitted to access those activities.

ETA:

It is unclear if the new pass would be required across Italy or only in regions with high infections and where hospitals are under strain.

i.e. only in an off-white Zone of some colour. But then dance halls would already be closed in Yellow.

ETA2:

seems the general idea from the Italian reporting is that it's going to apply to White Zones too, which is good, because as of now even FVG is inexplicably not Yellow.

[shpalman]

It will apply to any colour of zone, from the 6th of December. That's less than two weeks from now, and of course it takes two weeks for the Green Pass to become valid after the first dose, but f.ck 'em they've had half a year since the rollout opened up to everyone.

[shpalman]

Swiss voters back law behind Covid vaccine certificate

[shpalman]

Today the new rules come into force regarding the "Super Green Pass" for doing fun things and the normal Green Pass needed even for taking local public transport. I did see the police checking people at the bus stop near the town centre as I was walking into town this morning (it's a nice day and the Polimi is on holiday until Thursday for a "bridge") or maybe they just checked one guy in particular because they're a bit racist.

But on the news they've just managed to find people agreeing with the necessity to do these checks and enforce these measures (they even found kids going to school who were basically complaining that nobody had been checking while the metro was just really crowded). One lady in particular was saying that she'd been in hospital with covid (bad enough to need the CPAP bubble) so was angry about the people who weren't being considerate to others.

Maybe it's a bit of an editorial line but don't forget that there's generally support for things like this and it's just a small noisy minority who wants to spoil it, and as something I posted on here at some point somewhere seemed to suggest,* people are influenced by what they think "everyone else" is doing. I.e. you feel uncomfortable being the only one either wearing or not wearing a mask depending on whether everyone around you seems to be wearing one or not.

* - it was actually about vaccination, but the principle is probably similar; to persuade people who have doubts we need to normalize the idea that "everyone else" got the vaccine, not give equal weight to the "two sides" in the name of balance.

[shpalman]

Under plan B, covid status certificates would involve people having to prove their vaccination status in order to enter “a limited number of settings, with specific characteristics”. These are not set out, but an earlier plan envisaged them being used in nightclubs and similar crowded, indoor settings, although what else this might mean was never clarified.

[shpalman]

Predictably there are people who claim to speak for the venues for which covid certification will be necessary complaining that they'll be allowed to stay open, because the alternative is closing them completely.

[shpalman]

Wait 5 minutes and it'll be back again.

Now they are.

[Trinucleus]

Interesting that the Tories demanding that no-one should be asked to "show their papers" are OK with that happening at General Election time when you want to vote

[raven]

Don't even get me started on that one. Bunch of idiots.

[bjn]

Don't even get me started on that one. Bunch of idiots.

I think you spelt "cynical bastards" wrong.

[raven]

Yeah, I already exceeeded my swear quota for today. Seems to happen every time I listen to parliamentary debates for some reason....

[shpalman]

guess the MP who tw.t this:

Tonight I will oppose both compulsory vaccines for NHS staff, and the introduction of vaccine passports. Both measures are counterproductive and will create division when we need cooperation and unity.

[basementer]

guess the MP who tw.t this:

Tonight I will oppose both compulsory vaccines for NHS staff, and the introduction of vaccine passports. Both measures are counterproductive and will create division when we need cooperation and unity.

Well, I guessed wrong. I thought it would be Spoiler:

Rees-Mogg

[bob sterman]

guess the MP who tw.t this:

Tonight I will oppose both compulsory vaccines for NHS staff, and the introduction of vaccine passports. Both measures are counterproductive and will create division when we need cooperation and unity.

Falling in line with his brother!

[shpalman]

Thousands of people are marching through London in order to catch covid from each other and f.cking clog up the hospitals and die

[Herainestold]

Thousands of people are marching through London in order to catch covid from each other and f.cking clog up the hospitals and die

That is one way to get community immunity up and get this surge over with. Unfortunately the NHS is likely to fail within the next fortnight.