The Queen

[Martin_B]

If the funeral is the 19th, that's Talk Like a Pirate Day. Can we get Charlie to pledge his allegiance to the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

[Little waster]

If we envisage the head of state role being the backstop capable in extremis of over-ruling the actions of a democratically-elected PM up to the point of even having them physically removed from power and taken into custody they will need the authority that can only stem from a clear democratic mandate rather just being the clubbable chum of the current PM or former winner of Big Brother or whatever.

If a democratically elected PM is abusing their power, what makes you think that the same demos that elected them will elect a benign, sensible person to be head of state? And what if it's the head of state that is abusing their power?

If a demos is determined to vote itself into a dictatorship then no political system is going to stop them, the best it can do is make it as difficult as possible with as many “are you absolutely sure?” checkpoints as possible.

Under the system you outlined the electorate would have to chose a corrupt PM AND a corrupt President; under the current system they would just need to elect a corrupt PM.

And that’s assuming a corrupt President would even be willing to work with a corrupt PM, with a functioning US-style system of checks and balances, the self-interest of the narcissistic douchebag in the People’s Palace would just as easily lead them to oppose the corrupt sociopath in No. 10 (and the over-promoted nephew who’s Leader of the Upper House and the five amoral alcoholic rapists on the Supreme Court) as work with them.

Add to that would a Trump or Johnson character even want to become a 99% ceremonial President just for the chance of occasionally wielding the 1% of powers they do have in their own interest when they could instead strive to be the PM with actual day-to-day clout.

Finally., as dyqik said, the demos who elects the PM would not be the same as the demos who elect the President. Even at the relative high-point of 2019, the Conservatives only represented 29% of the total electorate and only 44% of the actual voters, Truss is only leader (and therefore PM by default) with the backing of just 47% of Tory members (even in a two-horse head-to head) who in turn represent (sic) less than 0.3% of the population and about a third of the Tory MPs. Her only democratic mandate is from the 46% of the “Tattie Taliban” who turned out to vote for her in 2019. Research suggests only ~5% of that total voted for Truss because of her personal qualities, the other 95% were voting for whichever sack of spuds had a blue rosette on and again mostly to make Johnson PM not her. So minority, on plurality, on minority, on plurality, of small unrepresentative sections of the electorate.

The contrast in democratic mandate with a Presidential election (either FPTP, STV or head-to-head) couldn’t be more stark, 15-20 million voters would have to personally choose the precise Presidental candidate, over all other options, with no need for the anachronism of an electoral college.

[shpalman]

The President of Italy is elected by members of the chamber and the senate, plus "58 special electors appointed by the regional councils of the 20 regions of Italy." But the mandate is seven years, deliberately chosen to be longer than and out-of-sync with the five-year mandate of the politicians. Recently, of course, governments have tended to last a lot less than that but presidents are being persuaded to not immediately leave at the end of their first term.

During this year's government crisis the prime minister (Draghi) won a confidence vote but not convincingly enough, went to Mattarella to offer his resignation, and Mattarella refused it and told him to go back and see if it couldn't get a majority coalition together anyway. (He couldn't, this is why there'll be elections this month in which we're unfortunately expecting the far-right to do quite well, so thanks for that M5S you morons.)

[lpm]

Make it a requirement that the Head of State:

- has never held elected office
- has never served in the military

That would rule out ambitious political types and coup types. And make the job as boring as possible, all bureaucracy and no glamour. Appoint someone like the former Permanent Secretary of the Department of Agriculture.

[IvanV]

[Private Eye]... could go for an absolute corker of a cover, like they did with Diana, which got them into trouble even though it took a pop not at her but at the reaction by the crowds outside Buck House. I hope they do because I'm a bit of a cynical bastard (something with Charles saying "About f.cking time" would be good) but I wouldn't be surprised if they pull their punches this time. They got enormous stick a few weeks ago when comparing Johnson's time in office with an overflowing toilet, although a lot of the negative reaction appeared to be at least ostensibly because people were genuinely offended, in a "OMG that's obscene" way, with the picture of said toilet, rather than the comparison itself being seen as odious.

There were also a lot of complaints about a fairly recent cover depicting the queen, but again the joke was about others. The numerous complainers were either objecting at the mere association of the queen and a joke, or simply refusing to try and understand the joke. You do wonder how such people ever got to like Private Eye enough to subscribe to it. But there are plenty of people who use any opportunity to demonstrate their loyalty to something.

Your suggested joke is essentially the same joke they have been making for ever, so I would be bored by that. I hope they can do introduce something a bit unexpected. But the record is that some people will be offended by any joke that mentions the monarch.

The overflowing toilet was a perfect analogy. But some guests in my house asked for it to be removed from visibility.

[lpm]

Some guests in your house asked you to remove something of yours that they didn't like?

What the f.ck sort of guests are you inviting round?

[Stranger Mouse]

Some guests in your house asked you to remove something of yours that they didn't like?

What the f.ck sort of guests are you inviting round?

Was it in the toilet?

[Little waster]

Some guests in your house asked you to remove something of yours that they didn't like?

What the f.ck sort of guests are you inviting round?

Was it in the toilet?

Laminated and used as place-mats on the dining table.

[jdc]

I was going to suggest a re-release of the Smiths' hit on this topic, but I suspect Morrissey may also be a non-ironic monarchist these days.

I saw another suggestion: https://twitter.com/troublepeach12/stat ... 7492378625

My favourite is from the manics: https://youtu.be/c0m6KQqnuUw

They also changed a lot and might be joining the sycophantic now, but I still think I am going to post this one on Facebook later today.

Had a quick google and first thing I found was Nicky Wire, 2021: "You see supposedly left-leaning actors and pop stars queuing up to get MBEs and OBEs - and I'd rather f**king stab my eyes out with a pencil than do that." Up there with Robert Smith's comment on honours.

[Blackcountryboy]

Under the Regency Acts if both Charles and William died before Prince George was 18, William’s brother Harry would be Regent. I don’t think Charles would be happy about this situation even if Harry hadn’t decided to live abroad. I wonder if and how it will be changed or will they think it’s too unlikely that Charles and William will die in the next 9 years to worry about.
When Elizabeth came to the throne, if she had died before Charles was 18, under the Regency Act her sister, Margaret, would have been Regent. However, it was changed for that specific case so that Prince Philip would have been Regent. This was different because Margaret wasn’t completely excluded, she would have become Regent if Philip had died before Charles reached 18.

[Boustrophedon]

Make it a requirement that the Head of State:

- has never held elected office
- has never served in the military

That would rule out ambitious political types and coup types. And make the job as boring as possible, all bureaucracy and no glamour. Appoint someone like the former Permanent Secretary of the Department of Agriculture.

And not a lawyer.

[lpm]

It's Blackcountryboy!

Only person on here who can remember life under a king?

[El Pollo Diablo]

I can remember life under a king, it was literally yesterday

[lpm]

And what are your recollections, EPD?

An impoverished nation? Fears of a hard winter ahead with not enough fuel? Not enough housing? Britain realising it's no longer a world power? Air pollution? Class divisions?

[Millennie Al]

Add to that would a Trump or Johnson character even want to become a 99% ceremonial President just for the chance of occasionally wielding the 1% of powers they do have in their own interest when they could instead strive to be the PM with actual day-to-day clout.

I don't know about Trump, but it's exactly the sort of thing that Johnson seems to like - prestige without any real work.

Finally., as dyqik said, the demos who elects the PM would not be the same as the demos who elect the President. Even at the relative high-point of 2019, the Conservatives only represented 29% of the total electorate and only 44% of the actual voters,

With FPTP 29% is enough to win with four moderately popular candidates.

The contrast in democratic mandate with a Presidential election (either FPTP, STV or head-to-head) couldn’t be more stark, 15-20 million voters would have to personally choose the precise Presidental candidate, over all other options, with no need for the anachronism of an electoral college.

That's not contrasting a president with a monarch - it's contrasting a farly specific presidential system with a specific monarchy. Just as with Brexit, there are many variants, and some are probably worse than we already have. It would still be a presidential system if the president were to be chosen by MPs, so they would inevitably choose someone who agrees with the PM.

[Millennie Al]

Private Eye...

There were also a lot of complaints about a fairly recent cover ... You do wonder how such people ever got to like Private Eye enough to subscribe to it.

It's sold in newsagents and supermarkets where everyone can see the cover without buying it.

[El Pollo Diablo]

And what are your recollections, EPD?

An impoverished nation? Fears of a hard winter ahead with not enough fuel? Not enough housing? Britain realising it's no longer a world power? Air pollution? Class divisions?

Now that you mention it I'm sure there was something along those lines, yes.

[IvanV]

Private Eye...

There were also a lot of complaints about a fairly recent cover ... You do wonder how such people ever got to like Private Eye enough to subscribe to it.

It's sold in newsagents and supermarkets where everyone can see the cover without buying it.

The published complaint letters always end by saying that they are ending their subscription. I suppose it doesn't have to be true that they have one, though PE would be able to check that.

[JQH]

Arrested for saying "Who elected him?" at the Oxford proclamation

WTF is the point of all these proclamations anyway? We already know that he's king.

[TopBadger]

Arrested for saying "Who elected him?" at the Oxford proclamation

WTF is the point of all these proclamations anyway? We already know that he's king.

Pomp and ceremony, history - all that stuff.

I do feel bad for republicans though... hard to get away from this at the moment. Must be a real pain in the ass for them. I'm something of a Royalist and even I'm finding the wall to wall coverage starting to get on my tits.

Still - another bank holiday eh?

[Little waster]

WTF is the point of all these proclamations anyway? We already know that he's king.

Pomp and ceremony, history - all that stuff.

Saying that a sizeable chunk of the St James Proclamation was delivered with the same tone and degree of importance as a Working Men's Club Committee agreeing the previous meeting's minutes.

Flunky: Motion to approve the use of the Great Seal of Northern Ireland until a new one is cast.
King: Approved.

Flunky: Motion to approve the raising of the price of a packet of pork scratchings by one penny in line with inflation.
King: Approved.

Flunky: Motion to approve a round of applause in recognition of Old Albert's 35 years taking in the subs at the door.
King: Approved.

They could have at least dressed up a couple more of them up in silly outfits and punctuated the monotony with the Ceremonial Presentation of the Trousers of Destiny by the Grand Vizier or something.

[IvanV]

Still - another bank holiday eh?

Not brilliant for everyone, and those that suffer are usually the least well off. For such is how our kick-you-while-you-are-down institutions work.

Mean employers can legally remove it from your holiday allowance. I have come across people who have suffered this, typically in minimum or near-minimum wage employment. In fact, one of them once asked me if this could be true, and that is how I found it was. They were not very happy about it, to say the least.

For part-time employees, it can be a mixed blessing. A kind employer, giving employees an extra day off, might reasonably give part-time workers a fraction of a day off, pro-rated to the proportion of full time they work. That may work either well or badly for them depending what they would normally work on a Monday.

[plodder]

please stop pretending this isn't a load of f.cking sh.t. this thread is peak Surrey.

[JQH]

I don't see any such pretence.

[headshot]

My company had two performances cancelled by the National Trust this weekend. It would have meant about £6k in lost revenue there were to cover costs of about £3.5k. Luckily the Trust have said they will cover our losses. But they made the decision unilaterally. I think it was a bit of a knee jerk reaction…